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27 minutes ago, BarnsleyOwl96 said:

So do you think Palmer is good enough? 

Palmer,Joey,Joost all to me just aren’t good enough to be playing 

 

Those 3 are clearly not good enough. Van Aken has a lot of quality with the ball at his feet but his defending is atrocious. He scares me to death. Palmer has never been good enough - to think we sold Hunt and we are now left with Palmer at right wing back is very disappointing. Joey just looks a very basic footballer. I’ve not seen him have a good game yet.

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The excuse for Palmer not being a RB is not valid. He has played far far far more professional football as a right back than a midfielder.

 

Baker has inexperience against him but with a RCB talking him through the game would be a help to him. He also has pace. 

Did we try Boyd there preseason? A shame if we didn't and poor from Jos as it is an option we might need to rely on.

 

Palmer's biggest problem is he is a ball watcher and has little awareness around him. A couple of years ago he appeared to be getting it out of his system but appears to have regressed.

If he has to play then I would prefer him to not venture far forward and concentrate on defending.

 

 

 

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Better players and teams in the league will destroy us the way we were set up yesterday. If our wingbacks are high and the ball is played into the channel then ultimately the RCB or LCB is dragged into that position to cover. That in itself is not a problem as this is part of playing in a back three and I'm sure we will have covered that in pre-season. What will kill us is if both wingbacks are forward and there's no direct protection in front of the back three (an Adam Clayton type player) as you can see from their first two goals. It doesn't matter if you have Cannavaro, Baresi and Maldini playing as the back three, over 90 minutes the opposition are going to get chances with that little protection. 

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The lack of anticipation and sensing of danger for the first two goal by Palmer were atrocious. I’d even go so far as to say his actions lacked commitment once the danger was obvious. 

 

BUT it’s not his fault he’s our only realistic option. 

 

Bobbar. 

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20 hours ago, casbahowl said:

In my 50 years of watching Wednesday he is by far and away the most consistently awful player ever to pull on a Wednesday shirt!

Put him and us out of his misery now !

Oh come on, he's bad but if you've been watching Wednesday for 50 years, there's been much much worse.

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14 hours ago, casbahowl said:

Yes he does, any other fullback, any other, and we walk away with a point minimum!

He must never play for us again..... he’s that bad!

So are you recommending he gets a contract extension , yes or no ?

 

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Palmer was no worse than Lees yesterday and Lees was at least equally at fault for first goal.

 

Tom never came to breakway Wigan player when he had chance of interception, he just backed off then allowed player to turn and get a cross in.

 

He is not mobile enough or comfortable enough in possession to play anything other than Middle CB.

 

Manager's fault.

 

All that defence were poor yesterday with an equally poor and poorly (incorrrectly) set up midfield in front of them.

 

They didn't stand a chance.

 

Manager's fault.

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Lees and Pudil kept getting caught in no man's land of whether to cover for the missing fullback or focus on central defence, so the whole game the back three was spread so wide as to be completely useless, and the fullbacks were so high and uninvolved with all aspects of the game they were useless, this cannot simply be down to player A is crap player B is crap, tactically and shape wise we were horrible yesterday, no organisation, no discipline, no idea what to do, when to do it, how to do it, all this stuff comes from the manager and his coaching staff, very worrying, Wigan were so much better organised than us, worked for each other, knew their shape and tactics and the way to play around and through us, we were clueless, someone else said it perfectly that we played like 11 strangers who'd never met before.

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Posted (edited)
On 4 August 2018 at 17:18, terryowl said:

Just seen the goals on Sky sports news and first 2 goals Palmer should have put in a challenge. He just let the Wigan player take a shot.

Very poor.

I disagree. For Wigan's first goal, Forestieri fails to put a challenge on Robinson then Lees fails to "stand up" Robinson and shows him onto his crossing foot and allows him to put a cross in unchallenged then JVA heads the ball into the "D" instead of heading it back where it came from. JVA's header loops onto the right foot of an on-running Jacobs who then pushes it further to his right to get his shot off. Palmer is to Jacobs's left so the best Palmer could have done was foul Jacobs.  Palmer wasn't at blame for that goal as much as Lees, JVA and, to a certain extent, Foetstiri were. 

 

For the second goal, Reach could have possibly slid in to block the long pass shuttled up to Massey but the criminal thing was Pudil allowing Massey to put the the cross in that turned our defence to face our own goal.  JVA then misses his header and the ball is then fortunately (for Wigan) scuffed onto an again on-running Jacobs. Palmer maybe should have been closer to Jacobs but what you don't see on the Sky Sport video clip is Jacobs ruining off his midfield marker - I think it was Hutchinson. Anyway, Pudil was more to blame than Palmer for that goal as is the Owls midfielder (Hutch?) for not tracking his man. 

 

Palmer wasn't great but he's not solely to blame for the first two goals. He should take some oft He blame but the lion's share of the blame lies with Lees, JVA and Pudil. 

Edited by shandypants
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There are things that Palmer does well, and those that he does poorly. We are alk well aware of things he can't do, but there are very few of those mentioning what he does well.

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On 04/08/2018 at 12:51, Mr Farrell said:

To be fair we've only needed full backs for 5 years. Give the Chairman time.

But he brought us Jack Hunt!

 

lol

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8 hours ago, פɹᴉɯqɐɹᴉɐu said:

Lees and Pudil kept getting caught in no man's land of whether to cover for the missing fullback or focus on central defence, so the whole game the back three was spread so wide as to be completely useless

 

 

That is always the conundrum of a back 3

 

It really needs to be a well drilled formation - it cant just be thrown together

 

If the wingbacks stay high there are potentially wide big channels of green grass to exploit - if the wingbacks drop then it becomes a back 5 and the midfield often gets overwhelmed

 

It can be a magnificent system - it can be horrific

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He is simply not good enough. The fact that since DC came in we haven’t improved our full back positions is shocking. 

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5 hours ago, bobness said:

But he brought us Jack Hunt!

 

lol

 

I thought we were talking about full backs ?

Lol

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7 hours ago, scram said:

It can be a magnificent system - it can be horrific

 

It was definitely the latter on Saturday ;)

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On 04/08/2018 at 17:18, terryowl said:

Just seen the goals on Sky sports news and first 2 goals Palmer should have put in a challenge. He just let the Wigan player take a shot.

Very poor.

 

Don't tell @Beholder, he'll deny it ever happened...

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Every defeat this season is officially Palmer's fault folks. 

 

No one else. Just Palmer. Who is, according to our resident experts who post about him every week.... Well I don't need to repeat their expertise as they do it enough themselves. 

 

Only three boorish holier than thou threads every single week.

 

Nothing to do with them being identified with a position they have to defend or anything.

 

Nothing to do with him being a scapegoat. 

 

Its all completely objective and without bias. 

 

No one else gets mentioned because they all do their jobs perfectly. They are just weighed down because they have to do two jobs while Palmer is chatting to his mate 70yards away from where the action is. 

 

If it wasn't for palmer we would be in the Prem by now. Even when we win its Palmers fault we didn't get a clean sheet.. 

 

Those two consecutive seasons where he played consistently at RB and we broke our clean sheet record one after another had nothing to do with him of course. In factt he didn't even play in them. Anyone suggesting so made it up and the stats are too. 

 

(replies will not be read. Thanks in advance) 

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2 hours ago, Beholder said:

Every defeat this season is officially Palmer's fault folks. 

 

No one else. Just Palmer. Who is, according to our resident experts who post about him every week.... Well I don't need to repeat their expertise as they do it enough themselves. 

 

Only three boorish holier than thou threads every single week.

 

Nothing to do with them being identified with a position they have to defend or anything.

 

Nothing to do with him being a scapegoat. 

 

Its all completely objective and without bias. 

 

No one else gets mentioned because they all do their jobs perfectly. They are just weighed down because they have to do two jobs while Palmer is chatting to his mate 70yards away from where the action is. 

 

If it wasn't for palmer we would be in the Prem by now. Even when we win its Palmers fault we didn't get a clean sheet.. 

 

Those two consecutive seasons where he played consistently at RB and we broke our clean sheet record one after another had nothing to do with him of course. In factt he didn't even play in them. Anyone suggesting so made it up and the stats are too. 

 

(replies will not be read. Thanks in advance) 

 

Well said, he has his faults, as do ALL players, his biggest for me is not tracking back when he's done a forward run, but he's far from being the worst player we've had in the last few years and doesn't deserve anything close to the amount of grief he gets. Every player makes mistakes and costs us a goal from time to time, Bannan is an outstanding player and my favourite player since the Waddle days but even he costs us a goal from time to time, it's the nature of football.

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Palmer shouldn’t be in the starting 11. He’s a league one player. Anyone saying otherwise is deluded or lying to themselves. 

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Hes not the scapegoat, he’s just not good enough. No one deserved a 6/10 from

the game at the weekend but my thoughts of Palmer have not been from the Wigan game but from watching him over the last 5 years or so.

 

From the weekend, Palmer, Van Aken and Joey aren’t good enough for Wednesday. Van Aken is very good on the ball but his defending is quite frankly atrocious.

 

 

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