Forestieri

[Animis]

FF is a classic example of the general dilemma we have. On paper we have around 12 players for 6 positions in midfield and up front. We have players who historically, with their former clubs have a prefered position and need a specific style and set up to suit this - Abdi, Hopper, Rhodes and possibly Reach are other examples of this.

 

This dilemma is sometimes a positive to counter a particularly team or change a game during the match with players from the bench.

 

I believe that we just have too many options and end up reverting to what we know, which has been a safety first approach.

 

For me we have to go into next season with an agreed style and set up, with FF firmly embedded into this to play to his strengths. If not, sell him and move on.

[Bluesteel]

Unless we need the money then I see no point in rushing to sell him and the consensus toward him is a bit knee jerk IMO. He's not been fit so he won't be himself. 

 

He signed an extension this season so if we wanted to wait another 6-12 months to see how it pans out we can do. 

 

He wasnt anywhere near his best on Wednesday but he was still one of the few outlets we had. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Bluesteel

[Bluesteel]

8 minutes ago, Animis said:

FF is a classic example of the general dilemma we have. On paper we have around 12 players for 6 positions in midfield and up front. We have players who historically, with their former clubs have a prefered position and need a specific style and set up to suit this - Abdi, Hopper, Rhodes and possibly Reach are other examples of this.

 

This dilemma is sometimes a positive to counter a particularly team or change a game during the match with players from the bench.

 

I believe that we just have too many options and end up reverting to what we know, which has been a safety first approach.

 

For me we have to go into next season with an agreed style and set up, with FF firmly embedded into this to play to his strengths. If not, sell him and move on.

 

I sometimes wonder if FF would play better just behind two strikers, in an attacking midfield role. He has the work rate to get up and down and he tends to play better a bit deeper with players around him. 

[coe_22]

12 minutes ago, Animis said:

FF is a classic example of the general dilemma we have. On paper we have around 12 players for 6 positions in midfield and up front. We have players who historically, with their former clubs have a prefered position and need a specific style and set up to suit this - Abdi, Hopper, Rhodes and possibly Reach are other examples of this.

 

This dilemma is sometimes a positive to counter a particularly team or change a game during the match with players from the bench.

 

I believe that we just have too many options and end up reverting to what we know, which has been a safety first approach.

 

For me we have to go into next season with an agreed style and set up, with FF firmly embedded into this to play to his strengths. If not, sell him and move on.

Great post! My thoughts exactly 

[Animis]

Just now, Bluesteel said:

 

I sometimes wonder if FF would play better just behind two strikers, in an attacking midfield role. He has the work rate to get up and down and he tends to play better a bit deeper with players around him. 

 

Possibly but I feel that's where Hooper prefers to be. Again this is the dilemma, as if Rhodes stays, surely he has to start games. So he starts, and people say he's always scored goals with a big guy next to him in a front two - Fletcher or Joao then if we don't bring anyone in. So we then have to fit in FF & Hooper into this and it then becomes unbalanced or someone's on the bench and the issues that brings.

[Bluesteel]

Just now, Animis said:

 

Possibly but I feel that's where Hooper prefers to be. Again this is the dilemma, as if Rhodes stays, surely he has to start games. So he starts, and people say he's always scored goals with a big guy next to him in a front two - Fletcher or Joao then if we don't bring anyone in. So we then have to fit in FF & Hooper into this and it then becomes unbalanced or someone's on the bench and the issues that brings.

 

Hooper does drop deeper but more of a deep striker, I think the issue would be where you would play Lee or Bannan if FF moved into a midfield role.

[Animis]

Just now, Bluesteel said:

 

Hooper does drop deeper but more of a deep striker, I think the issue would be where you would play Lee or Bannan if FF moved into a midfield role.

 

True - the domino effect is what I'm alluding to. Seems to me Brighton, Middlesbrough and Burnley of recent times had one plan; one style, and a settled line up when all player were fit.

 

I understand that we need a quality replacement for each position to have the depth for injuries etc. Unfortunately we seem to have players who have a slightly different prefered position and team set-up/style then we end up with the round pegs in square holes when the manager reverts to the safety-first style.

 

OK when you've got players like Wallace and Reach who simply do as they're told. The more temperamental, but better players like FF get unsettled and drift in and out of games.

[davethemagicweasel]

4 minutes ago, Bluesteel said:

 

Hooper does drop deeper but more of a deep striker, I think the issue would be where you would play Lee or Bannan if FF moved into a midfield role.

 

Diamond

 

Hunt   Lees   Loovens   Reach

 

               Hutch

 

       Lee              Bannan

 

               Fessi

 

    Hooper  Fletcher/Rhodes

 

Gives Lee & Bannan the licence to push up and get closer to our strikers with Hutch behind them, but without shunting one of them wide, Hooper dropping deep will create space for Fessi & Lee breaking forward, and we can give Fessi licence to roam around onto both flanks looking to get into space and on the ball running at the opposition without him potentially leaving his FB isolated as we risk when playing him wide.

 

Bit harsh on Wallace is the main issue with it imo, but he could slot into any of the three more advanced midfield positions if others aren't on form/injured, as can Abdi.

[fudge27]

1 hour ago, vulva said:

OK. We are close to FFP issues. Not critical, but close. Villa are in the biggest mess. 

Didn't we make our own shirts this year? Substantial income there 

[Grassy knoll]

Ff is a very good player,but he cannot play in a 442 formation , Hooper and Rhodes have to play for me in a 442 with 2 genuine out and wingers with pace who can beat a full back and whip crosses into the 6 yard box,I believe if we were to do this both strikers would get 20+ goals next season and be the best partnership in the division,but that would mean selling potentially our best player in ff,or finding a system that you can get Rhodes Hooper and ff in but then you couldn't have the wingers in the team that I believe suit Hooper and Rhodes best. Its similar to when we had Di Canio and Carbone,class individual players but always a problem trying to create a team ethic with these flair players .

Whatever happens in the summer regarding players in players out,carlos in or out,whichever formation we decide upon i will be back for another season watching my team as its what we do. 

[Earlsfieldowl]

On 17/05/2017 at 23:58, Ballmeist said:

Very talented player but I'm not sure how interested he is anymore.

 

hopefully I'm wrong and he's just carrying a knock. I'll let the new manager decide ...

 

Bang on - letting him go may also balance the side ..Reach on the left and two proper strikers up front as a start point

[dontCallMeOwlCallYou]

2 hours ago, A12owl said:

Forestieri....

Last seasons golden boy.

Top scorer

Best player

Probably top earner.

Idolised and getting probably 100% support from the fans.

Wants to play Premiership football with Sheffield Wednesday.

Loses in playoffs at wembley

Then along comes Fletcher.

Probably paid lots more than our best player of last season

No new contract offer when all around him were getting extended contracts.

Wrongly (and he admitted it and apologised) has a hissy fit and didnt turn up for Norwich.

Received abuse from fans.

His wife received abuse from fans.

Discovered he was going to be a dad.

Got injured 

Not being played in his best position (for the team..wide left)

Gets more abuse from the fans.

Get injured and has to see a specialist. We dont know if he is still carrying the injury .

Becomes a dad.

Sleepless nights.

Worry about being a dad.

Gets more criticism from the "fans"

Misses a penalty.

"Fans" want him sold.

Hero to zero.

 

He is Argentinian/Italian. Has a temperament cos thats what they do.

If I was him I wouldnt want to stay where I wasnt wanted. He is fickle .. the "fans" are fickle.

He aint Messi who gets a 8 or more out of 10 every week and scores goals for fun.

Fessi is good.When his head and heart are in gear we do not have much better.

I would keep him but play him wide left. But im not Carlos. 

We havnt got and possibly will not get anybody with his potential when on song.

A bit of a problem for the manager and chairman to sort . 

He's still a great player. Just not the only great player we have now. A fit Hooper is better imo, Lees and Westwood are also more viable options for a prem team to be looking at. Fletcher and Rhodes have proven history. Imo it's up to FF if he wants to he can play in the prem with us or he can p*** about and waste his obviously immense talent, he has defo put himself in the risky category for any team now. But he is also explosively talented and a risk with him could pay off big time. But I am not in the he's irreplaceable camp personally. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by don'tCallMeOwlCallYo

[SallyCinnamon]

Can't believe some of the stuff i'm reading.

[oldishowl]

I like FF and Hooper as players individually but we cannot put up with another season like this one from them.

Mentally and physically the pair of them have been a disaster. 

They have been 100% fit in both for probably less than 20% of the games. You cannot build a consistent team with that kind of record.

This is why the whole team selection issue has been wrong this season. Players with a good history of fitness, like Rhodes and Winnall, should have been given more chance to fight for a place.

Instead we went with favourites who were not 100% and it finally bit us on the bum on Wednesday.

 

FF wasn't 100% that was obvious.

 

Neither of Hooper or FF have earned their money this season, they are worth nothing to us in the treatment room and if we had decent offers for either of them I would sell and replace with players who are going to actually be on the pitch in the right frame of mind.

[Tom Moore]

We have more strikers who suit playing two up than not.

FF isn't really the best partner for any of them in a two, as they all seem to play better with an out and out striker as a partner. Hooper to an extent, but he's done his best work this season dropping and linking. if he does that with FF we've no one up top.

Said strikers also want early balls in from wide, so he isn't really a suitable wide left option.

Due to the way we've recruited, he's now a very good individual player, who doesn't fit with how most of the rest of the team play.

He's also becoming a victim of himself, not getting free kicks he ought because of who he is.

I get the impression that he's a bit of a flat track bully too, don't recall a performance in the really big games.

If we could get decent money for him, I'd sell.

[Owls2k]

2 hours ago, A12owl said:

Forestieri....

Last seasons golden boy.

Top scorer

Best player - Also the best season of his career thanks to the faith and guidance of people at the club, as well as the support from fans. 

Probably top earner. - Undoubtedly - interesting that no other players refused to play because he was. 

Idolised and getting probably 100% support from the fans.

Wants to play Premiership football with Sheffield Wednesday.

Loses in playoffs at wembley

Then along comes Fletcher.

Probably paid lots more than our best player of last season - Stephen Fletcher has Premier League experience, it is to be expected that he'd command a higher wage, whether hes been deemed as a success or not. Also, when Fernando came in on a higher wage than others, why did none of them act like a spoilt child like he did I wonder? This is rarely thought of in this way. 

No new contract offer when all around him were getting extended contracts. Fernando was brought in on a very handsome 4 year contract wasn't he? We were tying up players with deals running out in the next couple of years. 

Wrongly (and he admitted it and apologised) has a hissy fit and didnt turn up for Norwich. - The first player to refuse to travel with Wendesday, I think ever. And the first player to refuse to be in the squad since Benny Carbone at Southampton. The fact that he had to be 'persuaded' by Loovens and Carlos to play in the Villa game is also a disgrace.

Received abuse from fans. - I don't think anyone was surprised at this

His wife received abuse from fans. - This was a disgrace. 

Discovered he was going to be a dad.

Got injured 

Not being played in his best position (for the team..wide left) - He's said before that he prefers it in the centre, so this doesn't have much relevance. 

Gets more abuse from the fans. - Did he?

Get injured and has to see a specialist. We dont know if he is still carrying the injury .

Becomes a dad.

Sleepless nights.

Worry about being a dad. - Probably one of the most positive overall experiences a person can have? This whole experience probably had a positive effect on his season to be honest

Gets more criticism from the "fans"- Did he?

Misses a penalty. - Missed the penalty and walked off without any acknowledgement to the fans or his teammates.

"Fans" want him sold. - Not all fans, some just want his actions may have done to the team this season and learn from it. 

Hero to zero. - Nope. Best player in the team thanks to his ability/effort/coaching and support to spoilt child refusing to play for my football club to average performer. It says something when our most exciting and skilful player was never mentioned in the player of the league chat. 

 

He is Argentinian/Italian. Has a temperament cos thats what they do. - Chill out Farage 

If I was him I wouldnt want to stay where I wasnt wanted. He is fickle .. the "fans" are fickle.

He aint Messi who gets a 8 or more out of 10 every week and scores goals for fun.

Fessi is good.When his head and heart are in gear we do not have much better.

I would keep him but play him wide left. But im not Carlos. 

We havnt got and possibly will not get anybody with his potential when on song.

A bit of a problem for the manager and chairman to sort . 

I've added some notes to your one-sided account :)

 

 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

Are we all mardy arsed sheets who can't stand the thought we may lose one or two games. Not in the main but many fit that description !

[19owl08]

[Lawrie Madden]

12 minutes ago, 19owl08 said:

I hope that fuuuuck Mansfield " i couldn't make it today " Mick has seen this tweet 

 

[FreshOwl]

Sounds like a goodbye tbh