Owl.1867 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 17 minutes ago, Big Malc said: David Weir was 41 and winning the league with Rangers in 2011 He left and considered playing for Dem Blavdes in League 1 but decided it was a bridge too far so joined the coaching staff. Not only this, but you just have to watch SPL games to see that the standard is absolutely dreadful. Theres the odd few that join from abroad and make a good career in England, but generally it’s English league players who can’t cut it at Championship level or above picking up medal after medal. It’s an awful standard. The Old Firm is bottom 5 Prem at its most optimistic best. The rest is League 1. Its just different is all. The vast majority of PL matches are dogger to watch, Championship and League One I honestly can't watch at all apart from Wednesday where I'm emotionally invested. Let's see how Warnock does, but the cold dose of reality he offers to a lot of the Championship or low PL clubs he goes to is just what these Scottish players are used to anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburghowl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 hours ago, Big Malc said: David Weir was 41 and winning the league with Rangers in 2011 He left and considered playing for Dem Blavdes in League 1 but decided it was a bridge too far so joined the coaching staff. Not only this, but you just have to watch SPL games to see that the standard is absolutely dreadful. Theres the odd few that join from abroad and make a good career in England, but generally it’s English league players who can’t cut it at Championship level or above picking up medal after medal. It’s an awful standard. The Old Firm is bottom 5 Prem at its most optimistic best. The rest is League 1. The Scottish Premiership isn’t a great league but we are a country of only 5 million people! It’s a mix of standards from probably bottom of the Prem level down to League 2, but the blatant financial doping that most English Championship clubs do, where their wage bills are far higher than turnover in most cases is not really followed in Scotland. Most clubs are ran sustainably or certainly better and more sustainably than the English Championship clubs. To be honest despite that unsustainable expenditure the Championship is also largely an awful standard. And to say that the rest of the clubs in Scotland are League level 1 is simply not true. It’s not true on the pitch, financially, in attendances, or in the actual size of the clubs. Last accounts turnover figures: Leicester £214m Leeds £189m Southampton £151m Watford £128m CELTIC £120m RANGERS £84m Norwich City £76m West Brom £65.5m Bristol City £36.5m Stoke £31m Huddersfield £31m Middlesbrough £27m Sunderland £26m Queens Park Rangers £22m HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN £21m Cardiff City £20m Swansea City £20m Millwall £18.5m Coventry City £18m Hull City £18m Birmingham £17.5m Blackburn £16.5m Sheffield Wednesday £16.5m ABERDEEN £16m Preston NE £15.5m Plymouth £14.5m Ipswich Town £14.5m HIBERNIAN £12.5m Rotherham £12m Average attendances last season: CELTIC 58,743 RANGERS 49,126 Sunderland 39,328 Leeds 36,566 Leicester 31,887 Southampton 30,464 Ipswich 26,184 Middlesbrough 27,264 Norwich 26,069 Sheffield Wednesday 25,647 Coventry 23,338 West Brom 23,094 Stoke 20,570 Bristol 20,374 Cardiff 19,455 Watford 19,172 Huddersfield 18,978 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN 18,500 Hull 17,973 HIBERNIAN 17,470 Swansea 16,821 Birmingham 16,758 Preston 16,287 ABERDEEN 15,636 Plymouth 15,579 Queens Park Rangers 14,977 Millwall 14,767 Blackburn 14,807 Rotherham 10,515 You may have that opinion but Hearts my team are certainly not League 1 level. On any metric. The club’s infrastructure is better than most Championship teams, they make more money (as seen above) than multiple Championship clubs, their attendances are comparable and would be even higher if the stadium was bigger (5,500 season ticket waiting list), and on the pitch I’d fancy Hearts to beat many Championship sides. Wednesday included. I’d argue that Hibs and Aberdeen would not look out of place in the Championship too given their size and potential. I’ll stick up for Scottish football all day. It’s not great compared to Europe’s other top leagues but it is still a good product with many good clubs. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/11668027/derek-adams-ross-county-morecambe-scottish-football-is-rubbish/amp/ worth pointing out that an SPL manager said recently that the football league 2 Morecambe play is 100 times better than the standard in the SPL. i think that is harsh , and actually the Scottish national team is in a good spot, but I do think the SPL is going through a tough spot quality wise. I think Colin might be in for a shock when he gets into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburghowl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Just now, mcmigo said: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/11668027/derek-adams-ross-county-morecambe-scottish-football-is-rubbish/amp/ worth pointing out that an SPL manager said recently that the football league 2 Morecambe play is 100 times better than the standard in the SPL. i think that is harsh , and actually the Scottish national team is in a good spot, but I do think the SPL is going through a tough spot quality wise. I think Colin might be in for a shock when he gets into it. Derek Adams is a slaver and a serial failure who will be out of a job in no time. He retracted that statement too FYI. His team Ross County are League 2 level size at best there’s no doubting that. To say the rest of the game however is 100x times worse than Morecambe is absolute drivel. Like I said above there’s a mixture of size of club, size of budget, and quality of team in Scotland. It’s a small country with a small population and whilst the quality isn’t amazing, I think the Scottish Premiership is pretty good and comparable to similar sized country’s leagues. Scotland per capita has the highest level of attendance out of every league in Europe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Sutton nails it for me 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmigo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 7 minutes ago, edinburghowl said: Derek Adams is a slaver and a serial failure who will be out of a job in no time. He retracted that statement too FYI. His team Ross County are League 2 level size at best there’s no doubting that. To say the rest of the game however is 100x times worse than Morecambe is absolute drivel. Like I said above there’s a mixture of size of club, size of budget, and quality of team in Scotland. It’s a small country with a small population and whilst the quality isn’t amazing, I think the Scottish Premiership is pretty good and comparable to similar sized country’s leagues. Scotland per capita has the highest level of attendance out of every league in Europe. I agree. I wrongly compare it to the time I lived in Scotland ( 1996 to 2000) where the quality was very high but all the clubs ran into financial issues eventually . as you say, the clubs are now running sustainably at a lower level of quality and that is fine. Dundee a good example. They had ravanelli and cannigia up front at one point ! I suspect the current strikers don’t have that pedigree but they won’t go bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1-1 away at Rangers so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburghowl Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 5 hours ago, mcmigo said: I agree. I wrongly compare it to the time I lived in Scotland ( 1996 to 2000) where the quality was very high but all the clubs ran into financial issues eventually . as you say, the clubs are now running sustainably at a lower level of quality and that is fine. Dundee a good example. They had ravanelli and cannigia up front at one point ! I suspect the current strikers don’t have that pedigree but they won’t go bust. Your Dundee example is a great one and they went into admin because of that expenditure on the likes of Ravanelli and Caniggia. Thankfully like you say the game overall has reset and Scottish clubs are a bit more prudent and careful these days. The problem English Championship teams have (and I kind of get it) is the money on offer in the Premier League and even after you go down is a total game changer. The clubs therefore chase it and pay way more than they can realistically afford. Something needs to change though. 1 hour ago, Rogers said: 1-1 away at Rangers so far They huffed and puffed but Rangers were the deserved winners in the end. Aberdeen will get big money for Miovski when they sell him. He is a class act. They should be aiming for close to £10m given his age. I’m loving the fact that the two best strikers in the league both play for teams outside of Glasgow BTW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopparberg Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Lost 2-1 He really loves to get out of the house does Warnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Malc Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 8 hours ago, edinburghowl said: The Scottish Premiership isn’t a great league but we are a country of only 5 million people! It’s a mix of standards from probably bottom of the Prem level down to League 2, but the blatant financial doping that most English Championship clubs do, where their wage bills are far higher than turnover in most cases is not really followed in Scotland. Most clubs are ran sustainably or certainly better and more sustainably than the English Championship clubs. To be honest despite that unsustainable expenditure the Championship is also largely an awful standard. And to say that the rest of the clubs in Scotland are League level 1 is simply not true. It’s not true on the pitch, financially, in attendances, or in the actual size of the clubs. Last accounts turnover figures: Leicester £214m Leeds £189m Southampton £151m Watford £128m CELTIC £120m RANGERS £84m Norwich City £76m West Brom £65.5m Bristol City £36.5m Stoke £31m Huddersfield £31m Middlesbrough £27m Sunderland £26m Queens Park Rangers £22m HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN £21m Cardiff City £20m Swansea City £20m Millwall £18.5m Coventry City £18m Hull City £18m Birmingham £17.5m Blackburn £16.5m Sheffield Wednesday £16.5m ABERDEEN £16m Preston NE £15.5m Plymouth £14.5m Ipswich Town £14.5m HIBERNIAN £12.5m Rotherham £12m Average attendances last season: CELTIC 58,743 RANGERS 49,126 Sunderland 39,328 Leeds 36,566 Leicester 31,887 Southampton 30,464 Ipswich 26,184 Middlesbrough 27,264 Norwich 26,069 Sheffield Wednesday 25,647 Coventry 23,338 West Brom 23,094 Stoke 20,570 Bristol 20,374 Cardiff 19,455 Watford 19,172 Huddersfield 18,978 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN 18,500 Hull 17,973 HIBERNIAN 17,470 Swansea 16,821 Birmingham 16,758 Preston 16,287 ABERDEEN 15,636 Plymouth 15,579 Queens Park Rangers 14,977 Millwall 14,767 Blackburn 14,807 Rotherham 10,515 You may have that opinion but Hearts my team are certainly not League 1 level. On any metric. The club’s infrastructure is better than most Championship teams, they make more money (as seen above) than multiple Championship clubs, their attendances are comparable and would be even higher if the stadium was bigger (5,500 season ticket waiting list), and on the pitch I’d fancy Hearts to beat many Championship sides. Wednesday included. I’d argue that Hibs and Aberdeen would not look out of place in the Championship too given their size and potential. I’ll stick up for Scottish football all day. It’s not great compared to Europe’s other top leagues but it is still a good product with many good clubs. I’m not talking about infrastructure, finances, size, potential or attendances, I’m talking about quality on the pitch. You also cannot in all seriousness say that most of the championship is largely an awful standard. Fair enough we might be stinking the place out at the moment but the quality of players in there due to the lop-sided finances is showcasing the league around Europe. What some SPL clubs do well is give opportunities to the likes of Van Dyke and make good money on them. But look at the players they sign from the English leagues. They’re the ones who’ve failed to live up to their potential or ones who were about to retire but fancy another 4 years of guaranteed trophies. Despite all this you just have to look at the visual evidence. SPL games are on Sky - usually one of the Glasgow or Edinburgh big 2 - and the standard on show for the majority is just awful. I only watch League 1 teams when we’re in it, it’s the same standard of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburghowl Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 07/02/2024 at 00:23, Big Malc said: I’m not talking about infrastructure, finances, size, potential or attendances, I’m talking about quality on the pitch. You also cannot in all seriousness say that most of the championship is largely an awful standard. Fair enough we might be stinking the place out at the moment but the quality of players in there due to the lop-sided finances is showcasing the league around Europe. What some SPL clubs do well is give opportunities to the likes of Van Dyke and make good money on them. But look at the players they sign from the English leagues. They’re the ones who’ve failed to live up to their potential or ones who were about to retire but fancy another 4 years of guaranteed trophies. Despite all this you just have to look at the visual evidence. SPL games are on Sky - usually one of the Glasgow or Edinburgh big 2 - and the standard on show for the majority is just awful. I only watch League 1 teams when we’re in it, it’s the same standard of football. A lot of the Championship is a poor watch. It’s genuinely not great quality even you have almost every club spending beyond their means. It makes Wednesday’s season even more disappointing. As for the Scottish Premiership, I have watched every single minute of Hearts this season, I’ve not missed a single game, including going to Trondheim in Norway where we knocked Rosenborg out of Europe. In the last 10 competitive games Hearts have won 9 and drawn 1. We have a striker that has scored 50 goals in 79 appearances for the club. On the pitch (nevermind the fact Hearts are bigger than several Championshio teams) I can comfortably and confidently say that this team would win League 1 at a canter and survive in the Championship. Not a problem. Aberdeen where Warnock is, they are bottom 6 and yet they have a striker that would walk into most Championship teams too. I think Miovski will go to a big European club or Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 06/02/2024 at 01:38, Big Malc said: The Old Firm is bottom 5 Prem at its most optimistic best. The rest is League 1. I mean Rangers have had 2 deep runs into the Europa league in recent years. They were a penalty kick away from winning it 2 years ago. Scotland is a small country. Everywhere other than Glasgow is smaller in population than Sheffield, including its capital (I believe?). It doesn't have the population or the financial backing to compete with a league like The Championship in a lot of the ways modern football currently operates. Look how many Championship clubs are either propped up by recent parachute payments or are sustained by the ability to attract and sell on talent for massive profits. The interesting thing would be to see how the Glasgow and Edinburgh clubs would fare with the finances of the Premier League. Above all else, I believe that's the primary reason we'd never seen them introduced to the English league system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adem Poric Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Warnock may have mellowed over the years and he doesn't take himself seriously anymore but let's not forget that for a very long time he was a nasty piece of work and a prize cunt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 minutes ago, Adem Poric said: Warnock may have mellowed over the years and he doesn't take himself seriously anymore but let's not forget that for a very long time he was a nasty piece of work and a prize cunt. Absolutely bang on. I'm not taken in by all this laughing and joking and taking the pi$$ out of himself. He's vile, and the interviews I've seen so far have all been about him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Malc Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, sheffield_dave said: I mean Rangers have had 2 deep runs into the Europa league in recent years. They were a penalty kick away from winning it 2 years ago. Scotland is a small country. Everywhere other than Glasgow is smaller in population than Sheffield, including its capital (I believe?). It doesn't have the population or the financial backing to compete with a league like The Championship in a lot of the ways modern football currently operates. Look how many Championship clubs are either propped up by recent parachute payments or are sustained by the ability to attract and sell on talent for massive profits. The interesting thing would be to see how the Glasgow and Edinburgh clubs would fare with the finances of the Premier League. Above all else, I believe that's the primary reason we'd never seen them introduced to the English league system. Not arguing with any of that tbf Just that as it stands, the majority of the SPL is a dreadful standard. Anyone with eyes and without a dog in the fight can see this Anyone trying to make out the championship is similar is living in cloud cuckoo land. Can only assume they’re taking it as a criticism of Scotland itself which is nowhere near the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronfield Blue Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 05/02/2024 at 19:56, owls maniac said: Tbf he is used to working with crackpot chairmen in Vincent Tan and Flávio Briotori. Might have been just the big personality needed to put DC in his box. We nearly had him under Milan, that would have worked. Chancer, no chance that would have worked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Met him a few times He's right small 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Quinn Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I assume that Premier league teams would have to be consulted if there was ever a chance of Celtic and The Rangers being invited to join the league, does anyone think Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City etc etc would vote for them to be let in, no chance it would be serious competition against them once the money kicked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffield_dave Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Mighty Quinn said: I assume that Premier league teams would have to be consulted if there was ever a chance of Celtic and The Rangers being invited to join the league, does anyone think Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City etc etc would vote for them to be let in, no chance it would be serious competition against them once the money kicked in. 100%. I don't believe it's ever (or ever will be) a serious proposition and there's a million and one other obstacles to it, but the one thing that would always scupper this would be Premier League clubs voting for it. I think Celtic and Rangers are bigger than everyone in this country bar Man United, Arsenal and Liverpool, and I think with Premier League money and exposure behind them they'd start throwing that weight around pretty quickly. Nobody is voting to put their own noses out of joint like that. Edited February 8 by sheffield_dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWEDFM Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 13 hours ago, edinburghowl said: A lot of the Championship is a poor watch. It’s genuinely not great quality even you have almost every club spending beyond their means. It makes Wednesday’s season even more disappointing. As for the Scottish Premiership, I have watched every single minute of Hearts this season, I’ve not missed a single game, including going to Trondheim in Norway where we knocked Rosenborg out of Europe. In the last 10 competitive games Hearts have won 9 and drawn 1. We have a striker that has scored 50 goals in 79 appearances for the club. On the pitch (nevermind the fact Hearts are bigger than several Championshio teams) I can comfortably and confidently say that this team would win League 1 at a canter and survive in the Championship. Not a problem. Aberdeen where Warnock is, they are bottom 6 and yet they have a striker that would walk into most Championship teams too. I think Miovski will go to a big European club or Premier League. Not having a pop mate but you can't honestly believe that Hearts are "bigger than several Championship teams". Apart from Rotherham and maybe at a push Millwall I can't really think of any others. Like I said i'm not having a go so please don't take it the wrong way I also doubt whether you would survive in the Championship. It was only about 3 years ago that you were in the Scottish second tier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now