Our academy

[Dot]

Just now, helmut_rooster said:

 

Pogba

 

oh right

 

thats ok then

the pigs academy and Man u academy, right comparison

[Dot]

It really does bug me this myth about the amazing pigs academy

 

they sold maguire for 2 million

 

they sold both kyles together but no one mentions the other kyle

Jageilka didn't join the pigs till he was 15

 

If we are going to do comparisons at least get the facts right

[0742]

I really dislike chansiri, but even i can't be bothered to beat him with this stick. 

 

The academy was years behind our local rivals long before chansiri turned up, he and his advisors clearly made the decision to focus resources on buying success rather than nurturing it, this in turn has lead to our academy still being years behind local rivals. it's not something that can be changed over night and it's so far down the list of priorities now unfortunately. 

[Dot]

Imagine if we had an academy player sold for less than a million and then bought him back for nearly £20 million 3 years later.

 

Just had a quick look through the pigs starting line up, not one player in there who came through their academy (not counting the kid that came through a Canadian academy)

 

 

[soldierboyblue]

16 minutes ago, Dot said:

Imagine if we had an academy player sold for less than a million and then bought him back for nearly £20 million 3 years later.

Spot on I mean the meltdown after Shaw not signing a new contract after one decent game against the might of Exeter 

[markg]

Jos tried it

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Decent u18 campaigns doesn't translate into producing for the first team. We are a mile off and should either put more effort into it or close it down. It's more like a zombie academy existing for the benefit of providing opposition for other academies or somewhere for cast offs for players deemed not good enough for other clubs.

 

As far as being unproductive and a good way to burn money, the first team has cost us far more in badly spent transfer fees and wages than the academy has done. On that basis we might as well close the first team down as much as the academy! 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, 0742 said:

I really dislike chansiri, but even i can't be bothered to beat him with this stick. 

 

The academy was years behind our local rivals long before chansiri turned up, he and his advisors clearly made the decision to focus resources on buying success rather than nurturing it, this in turn has lead to our academy still being years behind local rivals. it's not something that can be changed over night and it's so far down the list of priorities now unfortunately. 

 

Yep.

The academy has improved significantly under the current regime. The damage was done under previous regimes while other local clubs invested in their academies, building a reputation and legacy that has left us way behind and will take years to claw back. 

 

There's plenty of sticks to beat the current regime with, academy contracts is worth discussing for sure but the real issues with where our academy is at predate this owner.  

[Morepork]

I actually feel like this ship has sailed now although nothing is irreversible.

 

If DC had rocked up with a plan based around sustainability, a willingness to listen, 95% less belief in his own ability and invested half the money he’s wasted in Academy infrastructure then at the very least he woul have added real value to the club.

 

I don’t lose any sleep over this because now we know the man who owns our club he could never deliver a professional setup capable of attracting the right staff and young talented players.

 

So, unless our ownership changes we’ll never see any benefit from a youth setup IMO. It requires foresight, planning, organisation and vision and DC hasn’t any of those qualities personally and wouldn’t recognise the need for them anyway......

[Jeffjohnsonmyhero]

A mate of mine his son is at the lane , Told me when i asked how his lad was going on , Playing against  Man city , Scout for Man city  asked where lads Dad was ,Approached my mate asked if would be interested in signing for City ,My mate His uncle one of my closest friends are staunch blades ,Said to his lad after match this bloke here wants to know if you want to sign for Man City , He replied My great Grandfather was the goalkeeper for United when we won the Fa cup ,My grandfather is a blade ,My Dad is and so am i . So with some money is not everything .He has been up to Scotland has opted to play for Scotland in honour of his Grandad . Why do United produce better players than us ? Kay ,Swan  ,Sterland ,Pressman  to name only a few ,We have done in the past ,I was good mates with the Scout who spotted ,Sterland and Pressman  and numerous other lads who played for us ,But they only play if given a chance ,I hope Darren does.

[Owlinmad]

Let's face it if they hadn't had one of the worse seasons in football history this lad would have been nowhere near the first team.

Right place right time.

After spending well over £50 million on forwards they are so desperate they turn to a young kid.

Imagine the outrage and club bashing if that was the case with our club. It's all about how you spin it.

[malek]

I remember our academy from 15 or more years ago and i firmly believe that our academy improved. It is not improving at rate we would want to, but we are definitely moving into right direction.

 

Don't agree that we are not getting material to develop into our academy side. Yes it could have been better but we got some very talented players to work with and I feel that our U-16's and scouting that brings this players to our academy are not doing bad job. Also, I'm very excited about next years bunch that is supposed to be very talented.

 

In my opinion biggest problem is that it is not on this club's priority list to develop young players coming through our underage squads. First team, U-23 and academy manager must work closely together and clearly define path to the first team for young players. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I'm glad to hear that Moore, Bullen and Holdsworth got together to decide which U-18's should get pro deals.  

[0742]

12 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Yep.

The academy has improved significantly under the current regime. The damage was done under previous regimes while other local clubs invested in their academies, building a reputation and legacy that has left us way behind and will take years to claw back. 

 

There's plenty of sticks to beat the current regime with, academy contracts is worth discussing for sure but the real issues with where our academy is at predate this owner.  

 

And that's the main thing here, it has improved and we do look like we're trying to make steps forwards, proven by the fact we've had Penney, Shaw and hunt come through, as well as others on the brink of first team football too. Added to that we've actively sought to recruit for the academy with players such as fisayo-bashiru, Uroghide and adedoyin recruited to make the step from u23's to first team players. 

 

I think this is the least of our worries, however my only concern is how we manage talent that is coming through in terms of favourable contracts, as we clearly have room for improvement there. 

[Maddogbob]

20 hours ago, Dot said:

It really does bug me this myth about the amazing pigs academy

 

they sold maguire for 2 million

 

they sold both kyles together but no one mentions the other kyle

Jageilka didn't join the pigs till he was 15

 

If we are going to do comparisons at least get the facts right

Of the two locally, in my experience they are quite dominant. Dosn't mean they are "better" per say. But there scope and scouting locally far outstrips Wednesday's. By some distance.

 

The've even started to enter into partnership and agreement with a few grassroots clubs this year, to extend there reach and bring more young players under there banner.

 

I'm not saying that's a better approach either, but my impression is that they are dominant locally.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Maddogbob

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Dot said:

It really does bug me this myth about the amazing pigs academy

 

they sold maguire for 2 million

 

they sold both kyles together but no one mentions the other kyle

Jageilka didn't join the pigs till he was 15

 

If we are going to do comparisons at least get the facts right

 

What does it matter if nobody mentions Kyle Naughton? They got decent money for him. Jagielka may have been 15 but they still snapped him up as a youngster, got many good years out of him and sold him on.

Matt Lowton - £3M 

 

Imagine if we developed anyone to bring in that kind of money now. These players may have been some time ago but it helped them to develop a reputation for bringing young players to the top level, far better than our reputation. That has stuck with them and will take a long time to get past.   

[Teddy Nickelarse]

5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

What does it matter if nobody mentions Kyle Naughton? They got decent money for him. Jagielka may have been 15 but they still snapped him up as a youngster, got many good years out of him and sold him on.

Matt Lowton - £3M 

 

Imagine if we developed anyone to bring in that kind of money now. These players may have been some time ago but it helped them to develop a reputation for bringing young players to the top level, far better than our reputation. That has stuck with them and will take a long time to get past.   

100%

[SiJ]

When was the last time we actually produced anyone who went on to play at the highest level on a consistent basis? 

 

Quite a few of our lads go onto have solid careers in League One and Two, but that's about it. 

[scram]

I suppose what many don't realise is that while it's relatively straightforward for a decent player to progress throught the ranks of the age groups - the final link in the chain of getting a pro deal is a cliff edge

 

It's something the PL and EFL have/are grappling with because it is so brutal

 

I've worked with some players for 12-15 years - known them since they were not much more than toddlers - they're almost like family

 

The one day it's all over for them - there is no gentle let down - it's the Roman Emperor with his thumb up - or down

 

I don't expect many to have sympathy because on the one hand they have been given one of the best chances in life - but on the other they are human and have human emotions and attachments and it is difficult for them to take

 

i remember one player saying to me after he'd been relaesed at a club after 11 years - "i never thought i would ever not be here" - it's like their home (thankfully he has gone on to have a pro career)

 

But that comfort blanket is also counter productive in many ways - the cosy familiarity and the continual feeling of being made to feel special - to then be dropped by the very same people who have given that impression

 

I don't think a lot of fans realise the absolute chasm between academy/18/23 football - and regular first team - at any level. As i said the chances of a player coming through to have a career at the level of the academy he's at is very small. Take the higher productive academies like Chelsea, Saints, Spurs, Liverpool, Utd out of the equation - and the chances of other clubs bringing players through at their level is greatly reduced again

 

People talk about "highly rated" as if it's something special - many, many academy players are highly rated - but we all k ow that out of them all a tiny percentage will make it

 

And this is also where people looking at academy team results maybe don't quite understand - academies need to have teams - but they are really looking at a couple of individuals within that team - the team is basically there as a bvehicle to maybe bring a player or two through to the pro ranks. Every development coach knows that the majority of the players under their care will have almost zero chance of a pro career - or at least a career at the level they're at

 

So a team having impressive resuts and doing well in the league/cup is meaningless in the grander scheme

 

And this is another reason why a player may only get an extra year deal - because he is there to basically help a better player have the time and space to develop

[Rogers]

On 17/05/2021 at 08:07, Dot said:

It really does bug me this myth about the amazing pigs academy

 

they sold maguire for 2 million

 

they sold both kyles together but no one mentions the other kyle

Jageilka didn't join the pigs till he was 15

 

If we are going to do comparisons at least get the facts right

Bravo for capturing a Premier League career professional at 15 

I think the point is that they spot and develop players that make good top league Pro’s 

 

[1867Heaven]

On 16/05/2021 at 19:10, SallyCinnamon said: