Blue and white Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said: Probably true, but you were saying they aren't worth the money we are paying them. I am saying they are most likely on less than other keepers in similar positions and therefore, relatively cheap for us. And yes, you get what you pay for. I still suspect their development has been stifled due to Westwood taking all the focus and for me that is a dereliction of duty by the club. Makes you wonder if that's why they brought in Paul Jones last year as a buffer to a large ego. For what its worth I honestly believe they should have been out on loan more than they have and learning their trade at a decent standard, sadly that ship has sailed. For me its another failing at the club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlBiSeeinThi Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, ZicoSterland2 said: If the other 2 arent good enough put them up for sale, there not kids anymore. We can't bring in yet another keeper if we have 3 uninjured sat on the wage bill. If Westwood won't leave then Wildsmith or Dawson need to go to free up space for potential first choice. Maybe the new goalie coach will realise that and request a new keeper. Maybe he'll get a tune out of one of them or both. At least give the bloke chance to evaluate what he's got at his disposal before we throw the baby out with the dishwater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, 83owl said: So because there was an Instagram post where a player has given away a shirt to a fan that means the player can and never has done any wrong and everything is the club and managers fault? Ive got some old t shirts at home, was going to throw them away but I might keep them now, good to know if ever I’m in trouble in the future I’ll just give one away and then everyone will think I’m a nice guy. It's more than one post, there's recurring stories of this, and yeah, I'm well aware it might just show one side of his personality, whereas perhaps his professional attitude is less commendable. But still, if you're a generous and empathic person in private, it tends to influence your personality in other walks of life, such as your career, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Bit harsh calling either of Wildsmith or Dawson shocking; they've both had lots of great games for us, and half the time I'd blame our defence who on occasion leak more than a sieve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Westwood's been a good pro, but was dropped on merit. Absence often makes the heart grow fonder, but not the GK he was and always susceptible to an injury. Rumours and conspiracy aside, not done enough to force his way back into the team. Expect him to see out his contract sat on the sidelines or nursing an 'injury'. Would be best for all however if we came to an agreement to release so he could go and play some games elsewhere. Not likely though in the current financial climate. Maybe we could shift him to an academy GK coach and move his wage out of the wage budget re P&S. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Down South Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, LoadABallacks said: This. my take, based on nothing May I add, other than what you see and the snippets you pick up is that he’s cut from a cloth of player that likes winning and doesn’t take well to losing. When things aren’t going well and he doesn’t like what he sees, he isn’t afraid to call out players and be vocal. Managers like Monk can’t cope with that type of player with a more old school mentality and simply wants yes men. as a result we end up totally spineless with a culture where losing is acceptable as we saw in the second half of last season. 55 minutes ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said: I think you are way off. I get the totally opposite impression from Monk. He wants mentally strong fighters in the team. We have lacked that for several seasons. One. I think Monk is old school. Likes discipline and will dislike disruptive figures. Two. If Westwood is calling out players over the head of the manager as you say then all that does is undermine the manager Three. If a player like that then cannot take criticism when he underperforms or steps out of line then it is unlikely he'll be in the managers plans. It’s all well and good calling other players out, probably very necessary at times, but if not tempered with some constructive criticism / encouragement then can become counter-productive. Look at Roy Keane, very quick to pick up on teammates shortcomings, but Ferguson got rid when it all got a bit too much. Managers do need to manage strong characters, but there comes a point when it’s best for all parties to go separate ways to benefit the team dynamics. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Considering he is still the best keeper we have at our disposal, based on form last season only - he still had the best stats of the 3 keepers Westwood 14 games - 4 clean sheets, 15 goals conceded - average 1.07 goals a game Dawson 24 games - 8 clean sheets, 34 goals conceded - average of 1.42 goals per game Wildsmith 8 games - 2 clean sheets, 17 goals conceded - average of 1.89 goals per game With Westwood in goal we can get something out of the games if we score one goal with the other two in the goal we will need to score at least 2 goals a game to have any chance of getting something from it, something that we managed 13 times in 46 games. Maybe the manager needs to realise how important it is to have an experience keeper at this level or just give Westwood a chance in the team. If we doesn't leave then he has to be given a chance because Dawson and Wildsmith are not good enough yet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Therealrealist Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 At least make him have the hassle of driving to training everyday to ‘earn’ his reported 25k a week..b4 any bonuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: As I say opinions differ but it's manifest that Westwood's done here and I respect that this doesn't sit right with you. Oh, I agree he's done. But back when he faded away from our player group and first team, I felt we were shoehorning in Dawson even if he made terrible mistakes. Wildsmith was completely out of form and only returned after lockdown, but back pre-lockdown, we could've used Westwood. Other players got dropped for terrible performances, but Dawson kept featuring. It's all history now though, and the only way forward is offloading Westwood to drop those wages off our books. I just would've handled it differently way back. And not saying making someone regular in first team to benefit player sales, but feature in cup matches etc to demonstrate they still got what it takes. Doubt you'll sell a player to anyone if they're unsure if they've still got it, just going on past merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 One thing for sure no club will be looking at him thinking what a great pro and role model for our younger players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, N0rtherner said: It's more than one post, there are recurring stories of this, and yeah, I'm well aware it might just show one side of his personality, whereas perhaps his professional attitude is less commendable. But still, if you're a generous and empathic person in private, it tends to influence your personality in other walks of life, such as your career, etc. I've been told stuff which I'll keep to myself but IIRC he was being kept out of the Republic of Ireland squad by Millwall's keeper who at the time wasn't their 1st choice keeper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wall Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Something has obviously gone on that we don't know about, but he needs to get out of the club for all concerned. Even if we pay some of his wages 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We are all Wednesday Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 15 hours ago, Royal_D said: He’s going nowhere with the wages he’s on here The club certainly had an opportunity to offer wages at right level when he was offered and signed the most recent contract. I have no idea what that deal looks like though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanningtonowl Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, room0035 said: Considering he is still the best keeper we have at our disposal, based on form last season only - he still had the best stats of the 3 keepers Westwood 14 games - 4 clean sheets, 15 goals conceded - average 1.07 goals a game Dawson 24 games - 8 clean sheets, 34 goals conceded - average of 1.42 goals per game Wildsmith 8 games - 2 clean sheets, 17 goals conceded - average of 1.89 goals per game With Westwood in goal we can get something out of the games if we score one goal with the other two in the goal we will need to score at least 2 goals a game to have any chance of getting something from it, something that we managed 13 times in 46 games. Maybe the manager needs to realise how important it is to have an experience keeper at this level or just give Westwood a chance in the team. If we doesn't leave then he has to be given a chance because Dawson and Wildsmith are not good enough yet. Agree. If we are going to be paying him for another year,play him and let either Dawson or Wildsmith out on loan. He’s still the best keeper at the club and means we don’t have to spend money in one area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, room0035 said: Considering he is still the best keeper we have at our disposal, based on form last season only - he still had the best stats of the 3 keepers Westwood 14 games - 4 clean sheets, 15 goals conceded - average 1.07 goals a game Dawson 24 games - 8 clean sheets, 34 goals conceded - average of 1.42 goals per game Wildsmith 8 games - 2 clean sheets, 17 goals conceded - average of 1.89 goals per game With Westwood in goal we can get something out of the games if we score one goal with the other two in the goal we will need to score at least 2 goals a game to have any chance of getting something from it, something that we managed 13 times in 46 games. Maybe the manager needs to realise how important it is to have an experience keeper at this level or just give Westwood a chance in the team. If we doesn't leave then he has to be given a chance because Dawson and Wildsmith are not good enough yet. I'm struggling to believe that anyone seriously thinks judging goalkeepers is no more complicated than average goals conceded per game or that if Westwood had been restored to the lineup last season that the flood of goals would have abruptly dried up. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83owl Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, N0rtherner said: It's more than one post, there's recurring stories of this, and yeah, I'm well aware it might just show one side of his personality, whereas perhaps his professional attitude is less commendable. But still, if you're a generous and empathic person in private, it tends to influence your personality in other walks of life, such as your career, etc. Pablo Escobar built schools, houses and gave away millions every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83owl Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: I'm struggling to believe that anyone seriously thinks judging goalkeepers is no more complicated than average goals conceded per game or that if Westwood had been restored to the lineup last season that the flood of goals would have abruptly dried up. You only have to look at the monk threads and how people compare records to see that people will think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Therealrealist Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, daveyboy66 said: One thing for sure no club will be looking at him thinking what a great pro and role model for our younger players Stop being so naive..clubs dont sign players thinking they will be a good role model..the one and only reason he is still here is that he his overpaid..like so many that have gone before him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0rtherner Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, 83owl said: Pablo Escobar built schools, houses and gave away millions every year. And while that is true, that is also a far-fetched comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Crawshaw Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: His most recent performances indicated a significant fading of his abilities though; to the point where he was rightly dropped. Really? He played 9 games under Monk, we conceded 9 goals In one of his last matches against Leeds at Hillsborough which was on TV, IIRC he was Sky's man of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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