TrickyTrev Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Looking back to our relegation from the Premier League in 2000, if fans had known how utterly s**t the next 19 years was going to be I think they'd have just wanted the club to go into administration back then and start with a clean slate. No points deduction and we could have gone straight back up to the Premier League without any punishment. Instead we spend years trying to make ends meet and fight off administration and then when we finally get an owner who is willing to invest, we make a handful of band signings and suddenly we are in the s**t with regards to FFP. On a side note, you can currently get 150/1 for Wednesday and Barnsley to be relegated on Skybet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 It will be interesting to hear @MK Owl ,,s thoughts on the accounts side of this ,and the fiddling the date of the ground sale from a legal point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, alanharper said: I'm not an accountant, but I'd say that selling something this year but putting it in last year's accounts is probably illegal, unless they have contracts showing that the sale was agreed in that year. The fact that the land registry doesn't record the sale until the correct year and even more so the fact that the company that it was "sold" to didn't actually exist at the time is quite damning. So does that mean that the club broke the law, the accountants did, the auditors, or all of the above?! Looks like 7 years imprisonment is the maximum punishment for falsifying accounts. Put simply the standards that apply to accounting (and therefore legal) principles have been met correctly and signed off by senior auditor. So no EU/UK laws have been broken. The EFL, much like employers with employee contracts, rely on their own rules and have a different burden of proof. If they believe we have broken their rules they charge us under their rules and regulations. But lets not stop that from seeing Katrien and Dejphon sharing a cell eh? Edited December 3, 2019 by Peacenocchio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Thats because there weren't any,of course the hindsighters knew this was going to happen they just decided to say nowt Its also because in a contemporary way..no f.ooker knew how we were being run. In the first 2 years we expected the wheeling and dealing selling players and buying to carry on as a normal club would...While staying within the rules... This didn't happen did it? We didn't know at the time..So hindsight, in this case is all we have... I know..it doesn't help... but its hardly a defence..".The fans went along with it". .Please tell me what the f.ook the fans could have done , under what is a benign dictatorship 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Peacenocchio said: There is a reason that the sale price was what it was. Shouldn't that reason be a properly worked out value and not a balancing figure based on other losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Peacenocchio said: Why this is wrong... The operating loss was £20.7m in 2017 The gross loss was £11m more in 2018 so potentially a £32m loss (I know ….unbelievable) As 2018 was peak stupidity the op loss is likely to reduce in 2019 to circa £22 to £25m at a guess. So £75m ish of losses in the 3 years. The ground sale brought in £38m profit which will hit either 2018 or 2019 accounts (there is no question about the sale not being legit) That leaves in the region of £37m loss over 3 years. There is a reason that the sale price was what it was. No sure - let's say we are not punished for the current charges and we are allowed the £2m profit for 17/18. We lost £20.7 in 16/17, and say £25m in 18/19 less the £2m is £43m loss over 3-years. Of course we don't know what the 18/19 losses are yet but i'm not aware we made significant savings on the previous years' £32m loss - Hunt sale and Rhodes loan is all I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mycroft said: I am stick grabbing. Seems more secure than clutching at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside_Owl Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Two important points based on some replied in this thread. 1. The fact that the EFL did nothing about Bolton and Bury only has relevance because the EFL are now taking action to clean up the way its clubs are being run. Are people suggesting the EFL should continue to treat football governance as it did with Bolton and Bury? Ignore everything? If you have been doing things wrong, you don't put things right by using past mistakes as your base level. You raise it. 2. On the accounts, everything looked in order from the filed account but as we have learned the devil comes in the detail. Just because the accounts are approved does not means clubs will not be charged if issues are later found. Such as the companies which own the ground not being created until June 2019, and the money not being paid in full at the supposed completion date. They are just two of the issues which may not have been clear. Kieran Maguire raised many questions about the lack of detail in those accounts post release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, rickygoo said: Seems more secure than clutching at straws. That will be my last throw of the dice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthefish2002 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Thats because there weren't any,of course the hindsighters knew this was going to happen they just decided to say nowt You can't expect vast majority of ordinary fans to be qualified accountants, know the details of the EFL FFP rules and sat down and studied the clubs accounts. The vast majority of fans trusted that Chansiri knew what he was doing, sadly it looks like that trust may have been misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, rickygoo said: Shouldn't that reason be a properly worked out value and not a balancing figure based on other losses? Yeah, but how many stadia have a gold elephant out front?! Defo makes the old lady worth a cool 60mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Mycroft said: Has/is he been accused of breaking the law or just the rules of FFP? If it's just breaking the rules would SWFC have a case for challenging it in the courts that its against their interests to making a profit and progressing the club as in Wednesdays case FFP is hindering the club not helping it to progress. If you see what I mean. No idea what I'm saying but it's similar to imposing a wage limit on the club, someone help me. We agreed to the FFP rules (in fact we help to set them). As a business we’re free to pursue our interests in making a profit elsewhere, nobody forced us to be a member of the league. We could try Taxis or energy drinks, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sonny said: We agreed to the FFP rules (in fact we help to set them). As a business we’re free to pursue our interests in making a profit elsewhere, nobody forced us to be a member of the league. We could try Taxis or energy drinks, for example. Yeah I know all that. Just want to know if we broke the flipping LAW!!!!!!!!! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Animis said: No sure - let's say we are not punished for the current charges and we are allowed the £2m profit for 17/18. We lost £20.7 in 16/17, and say £25m in 18/19 less the £2m is £43m loss over 3-years. Of course we don't know what the 18/19 losses are yet but i'm not aware we made significant savings on the previous years' £32m loss - Hunt sale and Rhodes loan is all I can think of. All the wages from the 2018 players - Abdi, Hunt, Jones, Hooper, Boyd, Pudil, Hector etc. They were all on between £1m and £2m per annum. We havent't sold D Taxis yet though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 They’re bouncing off the walls in Rampton again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Its hard to criticise chansiri, because I still reckon he means well...but its unavoidable isn't it? its a like a mate who comes around cos yer cars not tickin' over properly...says I'll sort that.. Then you watch as he throws bits out from under the bonnet, sayin' "not really necessary that..it just "Regulates yer flange tappit wotsits"... You f.ookin' nod along as he throws yer alternator in the wheelie bin..... Then before you know it...................... its EXACTLY like that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Minton said: Nothing to do with the FA OK EFL ,point remains the same. I am worried and expecting the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, SiJ said: Be interesting to know who is the source who keeps leaking this stuff to the Telegraph. Pretty sure they were the ones who originally broke the story about us, Reading etc., getting investigated for the stadium sales. Call it a hunch, but I think there's a lot more going on here than "fairness" in football and compliance with certain rules and regulations. Suspect there is a fair bit of political maneuvering going on and unfortunately we find ourselves in the crosshair. I agree. The journalist is based in the Midlands so there might be a clue there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzlebeak Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mycroft said: So are the club facing an investigation from the law? I've seen nothing anywhere that that the club have broken the law of the land. Seems to me it just the footballing authorities who are imposing their rules and therefore could be challenged in court. I am stick grabbing. I should try a straw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said: You can't expect vast majority of ordinary fans to be qualified accountants, know the details of the EFL FFP rules and sat down and studied the clubs accounts. The vast majority of fans trusted that Chansiri knew what he was doing, sadly it looks like that trust may have been misplaced. I don't expect anything from this place, other than to let it run away with itself, and then find threads removed because of it...........!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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