billyblack Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Stoop said: He’s put serious money into the club No doubt he’s had the best intentions, but ultimately he’s been badly advised and now he’s backed into a corner without a way out Badly advised by people he appointed. Sorry. Yes hes spent a lot of money, spending it unwisely isnt smart though. He has good intentions i agree but there it stops. Tried to run it like a one man band and it cant be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, Glenn59 said: financial misconduct is a bit more serious than going over the FFP budget. It's verging on fraudulently putting in falsified accounts. Is it FFP financial misconduct or against the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, Mycroft said: After reading your posts I took your lead, we seem to be in the same boat. Until the EFL verdict it's all a bit of mystery. The accounts though point towards a car crash regardless of what they decide. A fresh start pissed up the wall by incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said: I’ve said in other threads that Monk and his team selections aren’t a problem, it’s Chansiri and our future under his ownership. Even if we survive with whatever points deduction handed out I can’t see Chansiri improving the club anytime soon. Last Christmas he said he would sell if someone else could do a better job, well I think the threat of league expulsion, or a points deduction and charges against staff members suggests he’s not doing a cracking job anymore I'd let him answer the charges first before we crucify.. IF he cannot successfully defend them, then yes, new owner required. I still think the club should have anticipated this, and hope they will respond robustly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn59 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, nilsson said: Who signed them off though and had they seen the land registry docs at that stage? hopefully this will all come out in due process with the EFL and the club. Someone has ballsed up big style and it seems it could well be the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn59 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Mycroft said: Is it FFP financial misconduct or against the law? they have not been charged with a breach of FFP, all three have been charged with misconduct which implies a much more serious charge looming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, Glenn59 said: they have not been charged with a breach of FFP, all three have been charged with misconduct which implies a much more serious charge looming Breaking the law or the rules of FFP? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Everyone shouting about he should have done this that and the other I can’t remember any threads in the first 2 seasons saying we better be careful of FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A E Neuman NYowl Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, Jonboy27 said: So how did they get signed off by an account then? Baffles me all this rounduns To be honest I have stopped trying to understand how our club operates, Nearly every decision made seems illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mycroft said: Is it FFP financial misconduct or against the law? I'm not an accountant, but I'd say that selling something this year but putting it in last year's accounts is probably illegal, unless they have contracts showing that the sale was agreed in that year. The fact that the land registry doesn't record the sale until the correct year and even more so the fact that the company that it was "sold" to didn't actually exist at the time is quite damning. So does that mean that the club broke the law, the accountants did, the auditors, or all of the above?! Looks like 7 years imprisonment is the maximum punishment for falsifying accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 38 minutes ago, Rodger Wylde said: And how much is it? 350k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Animis said: We have to issue our 2018/19 accounts forecast by Christmas. It's likely we'll be forecasting £20-25m annual losses, so we'll breach the 3-year rules in the Summer when the accounts are formally announced/filed. This means we're likely to go into soft embargo in the New Year, and certainly full in the Summer. I suppose our mitigation will be that we're off-loading £millions from the wage bill from 30th June, which might help us for the timings and point deduction sanctions. Obviously this is separate to the potential penalties for the current charges. For me it's clear DC's hoping for promotion this season - if not, we're going to get points deduction for next season. With a new; cheaper squad will mean DC's will still have to fund a debt making club into the 2021/22 season to simply have any chance of getting his return on investment through promotion. Why this is wrong... The operating loss was £20.7m in 2017 The gross loss was £11m more in 2018 so potentially a £32m loss (I know ….unbelievable) As 2018 was peak stupidity the op loss is likely to reduce in 2019 to circa £22 to £25m at a guess. So £75m ish of losses in the 3 years. The ground sale brought in £38m profit which will hit either 2018 or 2019 accounts (there is no question about the sale not being legit) That leaves in the region of £37m loss over 3 years. There is a reason that the sale price was what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, Glenn59 said: despite his best intentions, if you fiddle the accounts it'll catch up on you, and looks like it has done. Seems the land registry records are where it tripped them up. I'm not sure this is true. The lawyers who managed the conveyancing between the 'two' parties, would register the sale transaction through a TR1 form they would complete and submit to the Land Registry on the behalf of DC as owner of his new company (the purchaser) at the time of the sale, which was in 2019, not 2018 as the 'sale' was only recorded as legal under Heads of Terms in the 2017/18 accounts, which is apparently acceptable practice under accountancy rules. I expect the SDLT would also follow the same process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiJ Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) Be interesting to know who is the source who keeps leaking this stuff to the Telegraph. Pretty sure they were the ones who originally broke the story about us, Reading etc., getting investigated for the stadium sales. Call it a hunch, but I think there's a lot more going on here than "fairness" in football and compliance with certain rules and regulations. Suspect there is a fair bit of political maneuvering going on and unfortunately we find ourselves in the crosshair. Edited December 3, 2019 by SiJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, hugeowl said: Everyone shouting about he should have done this that and the other I can’t remember any threads in the first 2 seasons saying we better be careful of FFP Thats because there weren't any,of course the hindsighters knew this was going to happen they just decided to say nowt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S72 Owl Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 If all 3 have been charged, could it be that they get banned and fined but the club could potentially escape a points deduction. (Until next years accounts are handed in anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: Thats because there weren't any,of course the hindsighters knew this was going to happen they just decided to say nowt Well i have to say i have been moaning about DC's antics for a while and just seemed to get slated for it. He hasnt been found guilty of anything yet so will just wait to see how this pans out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat blondeau Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, hugeowl said: Everyone shouting about he should have done this that and the other I can’t remember any threads in the first 2 seasons saying we better be careful of FFP First year there’d have been none because the spending and wages was still sustainable that year. We lost £10 million in Chansiri’s first year so were still complying with the FFP limits that year. The second year the posts and threads started when we were signing Rhodes, Abdi etc without selling any players but any poster who raised concerns about FFP was called a bed wetter on here by the usuals 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, alanharper said: I'm not an accountant, but I'd say that selling something this year but putting it in last year's accounts is probably illegal, unless they have contracts showing that the sale was agreed in that year. The fact that the land registry doesn't record the sale until the correct year and even more so the fact that the company that it was "sold" to didn't actually exist at the time is quite damning. So does that mean that the club broke the law, the accountants did, the auditors, or all of the above?! Looks like 7 years imprisonment is the maximum punishment for falsifying accounts. So are the club facing an investigation from the law? I've seen nothing anywhere that that the club have broken the law of the land. Seems to me it just the footballing authorities who are imposing their rules and therefore could be challenged in court. I am stick grabbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, hugeowl said: Everyone shouting about he should have done this that and the other I can’t remember any threads in the first 2 seasons saying we better be careful of FFP Some people warned about lionizing him - especially when he hiked the prices. Dave Richards was a hero once. But Chansiri assured us FFP would not be a problem. How did we know the pickle he was getting us into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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