Blame for their goals

[GY-owl.4]

on this occasion i prefer to look at the speed and movement of the opposition forwards rather than 'who to blame'

 

Im not saying no-one did owt wrong, they did. but thats football init?  

i thought their movement up top was quality, sometimes you gotta hold your hands up and accept good play.

 

[bladeshater]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

That's nonsense

 

May be nonsense to you others might feel different 

 

 

[sonofbert2]

45 minutes ago, NYCOWL said:

I think you might have nailed it.

 

He has, it's true.

 

You used to go to the match to forget life's problems not take them out on your own players.

 

There seems to be some sort of collective addiction to anger amongst folk these days.  You see it surface for the slightest of issues and it's quite scary when it's a group thing as it just seems so irrational.

[debram]

1 hour ago, malek said:

 

Player gets turned 60 yards from the goal with 7 or 8 defenders between him and the keeper, and gets blamed for the goal

 

We can blame all 11 that were on the pitch as well.

Yep its a team game, all in it together.

[Redfern Froggatt]

1 hour ago, debram said:

Needs a strong character/leader to give him confidence, he was fine when Loovens managed him.

 

but Loovens was dog poo for his last 2 seasons wih us - so that was never the solution

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

So basically a thread to slate Palmer and Pelupessy?

How's about a thread pointing out the positives of yesterday, the class play, the clever passing, the great moves, the class dribbling from the likes of Penney? 

etc

 

Come on Neil , you know how it works. There MUST be a scapegoat win ,lose or draw. Thats how some of our fans work. 

[prowl]

Sometimes no one is at fault for a goal. The attacking team do all the right things and score.

 

If say Fernando does something brilliant and scores, which defender on the opposition side is a fault? You can't defend against great play.

 

If you want to attack you are going to leave gaps and be open to the counter attack, whose fault is it if the opposition score then? Maybe the whole team but the alternative is to always play safe, does anyone want to go back to the boring football of Gray* or CC's second year?

 

* not criticising Gray, I thought he did well in the circumstances.

[helmut_rooster]

Beswetherick at fault for all 4 of the goals yesterday although that flying scissor kick own goal from Chris Carr didn't help. 

[Costello 77]

1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

Some very good points in the O.P 

 

Always going to have the potential for it to descend into a sensationalist thread  though when the headline starts with the word "Blame" 

 

Or Brexit.

[Sultan_Pepper]

2 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

 

At times we had 4 or 5 players in their half when they had the ball, as if we were playing a high pressing game. Yet their defenders had loads of time on the ball and just passed it through them to players in front of our exposed back 4. A high press with no actual pressing.

I agree with that bit. We do have a tendency to have players too far forward. We should move forward with the ball more rather than starting from up there. Used to happen all the time under Carlos, it's been better recently but we need reach, Mathias and João to have a starting position 10 years further back when the ball is in midfield

[debram]

1 hour ago, Redfern Froggatt said:

but Loovens was dog poo for his last 2 seasons wih us - so that was never the solution

correct but it proved a point, lees needs leading to be at his best.

[DobbinTheDonkey]

The faults of the goals were communication and organisation.

 

They played clever and stood next defenders then slowly drifted away, with the one marking passing him on. It was constant throughout the first half. 

 

Get marked drift away.

Get marked and drop deep, either the defender will come with you and leave space behind or he will get caught in two minds stop and you can receive the ball with no pressure.

We pressed but it was a false press, either the team has to do it or the 1 or 2 players doing it just get the ball passed around them.

If JP is to protect the defence then he has to stay more disciplined and not get dragged all over the pitch.

 

However after saying all that the difference in quality stood out a mile and with a better manager Stoke would be in the top two. Rowett looked like he decided to keep what he had and hit us more on the counter attack. The pitch opened up for Bannan and that's the last thing the opposites need to happen.

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, james o connor said:

I love how players like Palmer and nuihu get slated constantly yet dross like abdi is defended and deadwood like Hutchinson can do no wrong . Regardless of how good or bad the former mentioned players are , they dig in and are available week in week out . That’s worth far more to me . 

 

It astounds me as a fan base it’s decided pretty quickly who’s liked and disliked and it rarely changes. Nuihu could score 40 this season and would still be slagged off . Dawson could play for England for the next ten years yet people will still say westwood should play . Jose semedo was a dreadful footballer yet said nice things so was adored . Pelupessy is twice the player yet is slagged of by many . 

 

Bizarre . 

 

Not sure about that. If they are stealing a wage fair enough but as frustrating as it is, it is not the fault of Hutchinson or Abdi that they are constantly injured, certainly in the case of Hutchinson he us desperate to play as much as he can so not sure why you would slate a player for being injured.

 

Also, you've labelled Semedo as a 'dreadful footballer' in a post you started by praising players for their availability and digging in - think Semedo was the epitome of that for us. He may not have been as good technically as Pelupessy can be but he did a far more effective job for the team than JP has done so far.  

[Jim]

I don’t think Tom Lees has ever been the same player when he plays alongside someone other than Loovens which certainly is a problem now.

 

Palmer is average. He’ll have some good games but he’ll have some bad ones. I just don’t see him improving that much TBH.

 

Thorniley and Penney are going to make mistakes that’s to be expected as they’re learning their trade.

 

It’s a controversial subject on here but I could understand JL persevering with Dawson given the possibility of Westwood leaving but Westwood is now here until January at least and I think we could do with Westwood’s quality and experience at the moment given the current teething issues with this new back four because I don’t see us keeping any clean sheets anytime soon with the current set-up.

[Bluesteel]

Wasn’t impressed with the keeper for either and particularly the first as he got out the way!

 

Pretty much the whole team starting half asleep 

[torryowl]

if you look hard enough you can always find someone to blame for just about any goal …...I wouldn't be pinning to much blame on any  individual for the 2 goals yesterday.think it was more collective sloppy defending with a bit of good fortune thrown in for stoke's second . 

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

3 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

Just watched the highlights back.

 

Ist goal Biram Diouf receives a pass behind our centre-halves. How did that happen? Diouf was out wide being marked by Palmer but he drifts inside. Palmer should either get tight to him or better still leave him to run offside. He does neither. So he's able to pick up a pass behind our centre-halves because Palmer is some yards behind them and playing him onside. He gives it to Afobe who finishes well. So sloppy from Palmer.

 

2nd goal Etebo stands with the ball in our half. He's faced by Bannan and Pelupessy. He has two options to pass to because both Ince and Allen are in the avenue between our midfield and back 4. A simple pass between B and P cuts them both out leaving Ince facing our back 4. The problem here is the lack of pressure on Etebo. He has all the time in the world to look up and pick his pass. B and P both realise that nobody is pressing him so they both make a forward move, deserting the space behind. Whose fault? Better communication between B and P might have helped but they were in a difficult position because no-one else was closing Etebo. Reach was the nearest but was loitering behind Etebo having no influence on the play. Once Ince gets the ball he passes to Biram Diouf who is offside but Tom Lees diverts it to Afobe instead who has broken away from a flat-footed Thorniley and is not successfully tracked by Penney. ! on 1. Goal.

The main problem for me is B and P letting runners get between them and the back 4. It happened a lot because those in front of them weren't doing the closing down job. B and P shouldn't have to go chasing for the ball up to the half-way line and beyond as happened again and again.

 

At times we had 4 or 5 players in their half when they had the ball, as if we were playing a high pressing game. Yet their defenders had loads of time on the ball and just passed it through them to players in front of our exposed back 4. A high press with no actual pressing.

For the first goal what about Thorniley and Lees Just watching Afobe run beyond them?

 

And Penney for letting Ince turn him so easily and then not taking a yellow and giving a free kick away?

 

You can’t give Palmer some responsibility for that.

 

For the second goal, I disagree that it was anything to do with Bannan and Pelepussy. They were goal side of all three of their centre midfielders.

 

Behind them was our back four against their three forwards.  Ince got into the pocket and wasn’t engaged. In that scenario, either Thorniley should have gone with Ince (no Stoke player outside of him, just Joao) or Thorniley should have come a yard or two narrower and one if the centre defenders should have engaged Ince.

 

For me, both goals were of a direct result of defenders not tracking forwards properly when the defenders had the numerical advantage.

Edited September 16, 2018 by HirstWhoScoredIt

[bradowl]

Stoke were a big powerful side who played some decent stuff, good play and fortune was cause for both goals. 

 

I think we did tremendously well to get a point from game, I doubt we would have come back like that last season.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

For the first goal what about Thorniley and Lees Just watching Afobe run beyond them?

 

And Penney for letting Ince turn him so easily and then not taking a yellow and giving a free kick away?

 

You can’t give Palmer some responsibility for that.

 

For the second goal, I disagree that it was anything to do with Bannan and Pelepussy. They were goal side of all three of their centre midfielders.

 

Behind them was our back four against their three forwards.  Ince got into the pocket and wasn’t engaged. In that scenario, either Thorniley should have gone with Ince (no Stoke player outside of him, just Joao) or Thorniley should have come a yard or two narrower and one if the centre defenders should have engaged Ince.

 

For me, both goals were of a direct result of defenders not tracking forwards properly when the defenders had the numerical advantage.

 

It wasn't great defending but not sure it would have been wise for an inexperienced defender to take a yellow card in the first 2 minutes when up against Ince. The position he was in shouldn't have suggested a goal was the likely outcome if he didn't take him out at that point.

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

25 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

It wasn't great defending but not sure it would have been wise for an inexperienced defender to take a yellow card in the first 2 minutes when up against Ince. The position he was in shouldn't have suggested a goal was the likely outcome if he didn't take him out at that point.

That’s probably a fair point.