Orlando_Trustful Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 14 hours ago, owlZfan84 said: Ahhh, another George Hirst thread. The sooner he goes, the better. Just another clusterfuuuuck to add to our seasons woes. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnssweetshop Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Dirkster said: Doesn't look anywhere near ready for Championship football on what little I've seen. Anyway I'm not sure that pitching him in would be good for his career either. The club is a bit of a strikers graveyard these days. I'd disagree on the first, the lad can obviously find the net, but on the second, I have to agree with you 100%, because on current team tactics, this lads starting career would have been ruined. Edited November 25, 2017 by quinnssweetshop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkstone Owl Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 8 hours ago, steelowl said: cant help wondering why people who are sick of hearing about a thread subject log into it to say so ? A thread that’s basically a repeat of every thread about George Hirst on here for the last few months “ooo wish they’d sort it out he’s such a great prospect” blah blah blah It’s annoying to think a section of our fan base are so obsessed by this guy they are so desperate in seeking answers in places they’ll never ever find them. Hirst is a great prospect but summat clearly not right. That’s my annoyance and that’s why I do say I’m sick of hearing it.....nothing but gossip and people’s ‘reading between the lines’ on a contractual situation that’s gone quiet pointless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hillsborough Mole Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 6 hours ago, BDM4nil said: In Mel Sterland's autobiography it tells the story of him signing his first professional contract for Wednesday and after having been an apprentice. Mel's dad advised Mel to ask for such and such an amount, so Mel did. Jack Charlton just laughed and said sign here son - Mel signed. In his book Mel says he was happy to do so, as all he really just wanted to do was to play football and to play football for Wednesday the club he loved. Talking of Wednesday legends, he's one of the best. Them were the days. UTO I've spoken directly to Mel about this issue He thinks the club are acting terribly Quite ironic really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malek Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 12 hours ago, TheBoyBeevers said: That isn’t blackmail. The club pay him (like every player) and have his registration and get to play him/not play him as they see fit. He has no divine right to play, he’s an employee at the end of the day. I have no idea who is at fault here. It might be the club, it might be GH and his representatives. Most likely it’s a bit of both and stubbornness has kicked in on both sides. But I won’t blame the club for not wanting to waste our development squad game time on somebody who won’t commit to staying with us. I rarely dissagree with you, but I strongly do on this. To me what we are doing to GH is nothing but blackmail. "If you don't sign what we have offered you won't kick ball for a year" ?! Really don't understand how anyone can stand for this, and say that "the club" was right to do it. Development squad would have done better with Hirst playing, and if he went out on loan we would get better fee if it gets to tribunal. Not sending good message to other lads as well, are we ? It will be interesting to see who of u-23's will resign at the end of the year. Btw. That offer of "highest ever wages in his age group" could well be just a fancy way to say that we offered him 350p/w (or so...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 £2K a week wasn’t it according to someone on here? Mind you what’s £100k+ when you’re 18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDM4nil Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Hillsborough Mole said: I've spoken directly to Mel about this issue He thinks the club are acting terribly Quite ironic really Interesting info. I'd love to know what's actually happened here myself and with both sides indicating their stance taken and why and so as to properly judge myself whose being reasonable / unreasonable. Looking increasingly like such details will only come out after he leaves this club now, which is a shame. UTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9CFT Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 It appears that our next buy should be new calculators for all that work at SWFC. Just another case of throwing money away when its not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, malek said: I rarely dissagree with you, but I strongly do on this. To me what we are doing to GH is nothing but blackmail. "If you don't sign what we have offered you won't kick ball for a year" ?! Really don't understand how anyone can stand for this, and say that "the club" was right to do it. Development squad would have done better with Hirst playing, and if he went out on loan we would get better fee if it gets to tribunal. Not sending good message to other lads as well, are we ? It will be interesting to see who of u-23's will resign at the end of the year. Btw. That offer of "highest ever wages in his age group" could well be just a fancy way to say that we offered him 350p/w (or so...) I disagree with blackmail in that you could twist it the other way and say the player is blackmailing the club. "You don't give me what I want then I'll leave". IMO both are just doing what they think protects their interests..... whether either will be proved right in this belief; only time will tell. I agree that it will be interesting to see what happens with other U23's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shireowl Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 George was finished with this club as soon as his dad walked out months ago time to move on .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third man Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 18 hours ago, ANDY said: It's all hypothetical anyway Carlos will still be here after GH has gone Looks that way, which means GH will be involved with a Premiership team long before we get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 How many pages ,chaps? I'm not sure you lot have the stamina to beat the previous record so soon after the event. Have you had enough of a breather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: How many pages ,chaps? I'm not sure you lot have the stamina to beat the previous record so soon after the event. Have you had enough of a breather? Plenty of mileage in it. Just needs another snippet of 'inside info' to fan the flames. This topic is a mere pamphlet compared to the Nuhiu 'War and Peace' serial Edited November 25, 2017 by Xxxxxxxxcxcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dirkster said: Plenty of mileage in it. Just needs another snippet of 'inside info' to fan the flames. This topic is a mere pamphlet compared to the Nuhiu 'War and Peace' serial Still remarkable numbers for a lad who doesn't play for us. Or even the stiffs. Or kids. (Nuhiu maybe getting a second addition with bonus material if jewellery gets another run out today too!) Though being something of a tiresome and circular debate, I have to say, at one time I did imagine what sort of cheer there might be at a packed Hillsborough when he got his first home start. Suspect we'll never know now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: Still remarkable numbers for a lad who doesn't play for us. Or even the stiffs. Or kids. (Nuhiu maybe getting a second addition with bonus material if jewellery gets another run out today too!) Though being something of a tiresome and circular debate, I have to say, at one time I did imagine what sort of cheer there might be at a packed Hillsborough when he got his first home start. Suspect we'll never know now. Yes I'd be content if the threads were closed and no more started and let the saga run it's course and see what actually comes out in the wash. Re. your first line it's the name that is a huge contributory factor. The very fact that he isn't currently playing for us is another. I'd have liked to have witnessed his home debut - when/if ready - too. Agree; very unlikely. PS. When it comes to circular debates the Nuhiu one has no equal. This doesn't come close. Edited November 25, 2017 by Xxxxxxxxcxcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Dirkster said: Yes I'd be content if the threads were closed and no more started and let the saga run it's course and see what actually comes out in the wash. Re. your first line it's the name that is a huge contributory factor. The very fact that he isn't currently playing for us is another. I'd have liked to have witnessed his home debut - when/if ready - too. Agree; very unlikely. PS. When it comes to circular debates the Nuhiu one has no equal. This doesn't come close. True. During the zenith of all the Nuhiu threads I got nailed with my only ever warning point. I commented on an old (of of millions of) Nuhiu thread rather than start yet another. Got done for bumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: True. During the zenith of all the Nuhiu threads I got nailed with my only ever warning point. I commented on an old (of of millions of) Nuhiu thread rather than start yet another. Got done for bumping. Blimey!!! I hope that my +1 will be some consolation for that draconian treatment. Mind you it looks from your Rep that you don't really need it. Although one recent late night poster seemed to be swimming against the flow regarding your perceived value on here!! Edited November 25, 2017 by Xxxxxxxxcxcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersiggi Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 20 hours ago, CLswfc said: Whether right or wrong, plenty on here have seen Hirst jnr play and he is no where near ready for first team football. That says a lot doesn't it. I doubt many have seen him recently. Not playing a club game for 6 months is only going to hinder his development. Pigs had Brooks going out on a season long loan to Chesterfield before being cancelled at the 11th hour didn't they? Just goes to show a run of games and a bit if form and young players can kick on in no time. I'm not comparing Hirst with Rashford in terms of quality but didn't he get his break in the first team due to a bit of an accident and he's never looked back. I'm not saying Hirst is ready or not - I've never seen him play in the flesh - nor am I a football scout or professional coach so I'll leave that for people that are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Dirkster said: I disagree with blackmail in that you could twist it the other way and say the player is blackmailing the club. "You don't give me what I want then I'll leave". IMO both are just doing what they think protects their interests..... whether either will be proved right in this belief; only time will tell. I agree that it will be interesting to see what happens with other U23's. You'd be right to reject the notion that what Hirst is doing is blackmail because otherwise you'd have to say that every single player who's ever knocked back a contract offer is 'blackmailing' their club. Of course that's not blackmail (which typically involves a threat to reveal damaging information unless a demand is met). But how can you equate this action (whatever you want to call it) with what the club are doing in preventing him from playing? The only equivalence to Hirst's "You don't give me what I want or I'll leave", would be the club saying "You don't sign the contract or you'll have to leave" - which is merely the other side of the same coin, and in any case is implicit as a consequence of any failed contract negotiation between club and player. Where DC got this ridiculous "sign or you won't play for a year" idea from is anyone's guess, but it makes no reasonable sense whatsoever in a negotiation. For one thing it doesn't even have the power of a threat because he's actually delivered on the threat. It's like kidnapping someone, saying you'll kill them unless a demand is met, killing them anyway, and then still expecting your demand to be met. It makes no sense. If you want to call that business then I can only say, okay, but it's bad business. We have a coveted asset, and if DC feels right from the outset that we're not going to be able to come to an agreement over a new contract, then we still have a coveted asset and we try to get the best offer for him. If Hirst says he wants to wait until his contract is up and then leave under freedom of contract to another English club, then for this season we can still manage our asset knowing that our compensation due (set by tribunal) will only likely go up if he continues to score goals - but, of course, he'd actually have to play in order to be scoring goals. If Hirst says he wants to wait until his contract is up and then leave under freedom of contract to a foreign club, then we'll only be due the nominal FIFA-mandated training compensation. This is the worst case scenario for the club because we'll get very little money for him. But when we stopped playing Hirst he still had 10 months on his contract left to run - 10 months in which anything could happen. Why force the issue at this early stage?! For one thing, it was stupid to say to Hirst in the summer we'll only send you out on loan if you sign a new contract now. This was an utterly needless thing to do at this stage. A few years ago we sent Palmer out on loan to Tranmere when he was in the last year of his contract. He went in the summer and was a great success in a team that stormed the division up until Christmas, we then said to him in January sign a new contract with us and you can finish the season up with Tranmere, then you come back to us in the summer and you'll be part of the first team squad. This was smart because it gave the lad a strong sense that Wednesday can progress his career, as well as making it easier for us to justify giving him a longer contract by giving us a very strong sign that the lad can cut it in league football. We should've done the same with Hirst and only recommenced contract discussions once January approached. If Hirst had been successful on loan, then it would make it a little less risky to justify offering him closer to what he wants (of course, his demands may also go up too), there would be much greater interest in him from clubs in the Prem too which would only push up his value further, and if Hirst isn't particularly successful then it potentially weakens his hand in his demands because he would fear that interest in him from other clubs would begin to dry up. The point is that by sending Hirst out on loan we at least keep the situation fluid, and allow for all the possible outcomes to continue to shape the contract negotiations. What DC has instead done is lock the situation down now and effectively guarantee that Hirst will leave in the summer without ever even coming back to the negotiating table. Our fans keep focusing on what Hirst's asked for, and what's been offered by the club, and some point out quite rightly that it's all speculation. But the figures involved aren't what's important here anyway. I can respect that the club has a valuation of Hirst and a reluctance to go beyond it, and I can respect that Hirst is trying to get whatever he thinks is best for himself. We don't need to know what the figures are. There's enough in terms of fact that we can already take from all this without needing to know about the money. We know there's been a contract offer, we know it's not been signed, we know that Hirst going out on loan was contingent upon him signing this contract, and we know that Hirst's not playing for any of our teams is due to his not signing the contract. These are all facts that have been confirmed by the club in some form or another. There's no need to speculate about what the terms of the contract are, or what role George's father may have played in all this or even what Doyen have been up to. It's enough however to see that as a process of negotiation DC has played a bad hand too early and he deserves heavy criticism for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl91 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 From SWFC perspective, why develop a player who wants to leave, at the expense of a youngster who might not want to leave? hence Hirst not playing for u23s and others playing who are going to stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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