Crystal Palace in Admin

[mirodo]

Ten years ago we got boughtbuy a fantasist that bought lombardo and eventually made him manager!

Ten years ago we turned down Lombardo because his wage demands were too high!

On the day it was estimated that Alan Shearer would earn more than pounds 6 per second of competitive action in the new season, Sheffield Wednesday took a stand against the "crazy money" being sought by some players when they pulled out of a pounds 3.7m deal for the Italian international Attilio Lombardo.

Wednesday, whose record outlay stands at the pounds 2.75m paid for Des Walker and Andy Sinton, took their stand after talks with the Juventus winger's lawyer. Lombardo's wage demands were reputedly in excess of Shearer's "basic" of pounds 1.3m a year with Newcastle, a sum the Premiership club were unwilling to pay a 30-year-old player.

"We're very disappointed," Wednesday's secretary, Graham Mackrell, said. "After we worked very hard and agreed a fee with Juventus, and went to Italy twice, the player's expectations were such that we had to pull out. The offer would have made him one of the highest-paid players in England, but we weren't prepared to pay what can only be described as crazy money.''

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/footbal...ds-1308483.html

[MartinOwlMan]

The two Palace fans in this thread have handled themselves with real dignity, and so have most of us as well. I do think there has to be a points deduction penalty in these cases, I just can't see a different solution that would be equitable. However it is terribly painful to consider what it must feel like for the fans of the club involved, and after all they are just the same as all of us. Football is a horrible industry in this country now, the greed culture has seeped in and taken hold ever since the evil Murdoch got his claws in.

There is some pause for thought in the fact that Palace went into admin ten years ago. Arguably, the decisions that have left our club in the financial and footballing doldrums for so long were made around the same time - not exactly sure on dates but the signings of the likes of Jonk, de Bilde, Sibon, Hinchcliffe etc must date back to those times. We signed players we couldn't afford to do a job they were not capable of doing. Isn't that what some of the smug-sounding Owls fans in this thread are accusing Palace of?

We have, by the way, no reason to be smug in all this. Nothing is guaranteeing that we will not follow them into administration at some point in the future. Imagine for example what will happen if we achieve the holy grail of investment... then get our current debt cleared... then start to pick up results on the pitch... then spend a bit of cash in January of whatever year in a bid to get promoted... get promoted, spend more cash... Sky goes bust and the Premier League stops paying stupid money to its clubs ... we get relegated, no parachute payments, player contracts to be honoured, mounting tax debts due to profits that were generated in better times... admin!

It could happen to any club, I really hope it never happens to us. Very best wishes to Palace supporters and to Neil Warnock and his squad of players.

[Bluesteel]

Last time I am saying this...keep up.

We are a team from the capital, which gives us greater problems than yourselves. You are from a town that has two teams right. If you count the teams in London that are in the top divisions Aresenal, Chelsea, Tottenham...

All I am saying is greater concentration of teams, relativly locally.

Thta is a factor in London. Then add in all the Man U/Liverpool fans another factor.

Our crowds have dropped over the last five years, quite why I do not know, you would expect after an amazing run into the prem, and then an arguably good season apart from relegation! crowds would remain.

Quite where you get the notion we buy players and pay silly wages is beyonfd me.

Since 2005 the most we have spent on a player has been a chap called Shefki Kuqi, apparently he was goosd once!

The only mistake since then has been Nick Carle, and not cause he cost £!,000,000 just cause we dont play him.

Quite why we cant afford the tax I do not understand. They have the season ticket money, the gate money. Maybe there is something more sinister going on, but if there is we dont know about it...

Its a shame that it has to happen really and I wonder how close we have been to admin at times or whether it may happen in the future should things go badly for us.

I think being in the capital is a double edged sword to be honest, you may have the pressure of many local teams but you also have the attraction of London (which is beyond me ) for investors who want to take a team on down there.

Teams like Wednesday do have two teams in the City, but in the wider region there are many more including the likes or Barnsley, Doncaster and Leeds.

[mirodo]

The two Palace fans in this thread have handled themselves with real dignity, and so have most of us as well. I do think there has to be a points deduction penalty in these cases, I just can't see a different solution that would be equitable. However it is terribly painful to consider what it must feel like for the fans of the club involved, and after all they are just the same as all of us. Football is a horrible industry in this country now, the greed culture has seeped in and taken hold ever since the evil Murdoch got his claws in.

There is some pause for thought in the fact that Palace went into admin ten years ago. Arguably, the decisions that have left our club in the financial and footballing doldrums for so long were made around the same time - not exactly sure on dates but the signings of the likes of Jonk, de Bilde, Sibon, Hinchcliffe etc must date back to those times. We signed players we couldn't afford to do a job they were not capable of doing. Isn't that what some of the smug-sounding Owls fans in this thread are accusing Palace of?

We have, by the way, no reason to be smug in all this. Nothing is guaranteeing that we will not follow them into administration at some point in the future. Imagine for example what will happen if we achieve the holy grail of investment... then get our current debt cleared... then start to pick up results on the pitch... then spend a bit of cash in January of whatever year in a bid to get promoted... get promoted, spend more cash... Sky goes bust and the Premier League stops paying stupid money to its clubs ... we get relegated, no parachute payments, player contracts to be honoured, mounting tax debts due to profits that were generated in better times... admin!

It could happen to any club, I really hope it never happens to us. Very best wishes to Palace supporters and to Neil Warnock and his squad of players.

I agree with your sentiments in that no-one should take pleasure in the demise of another football club (unless it was the pigs, of course) - there but for the grace of God go we.

However, what no-one seems to have mentioned yet in this thread (unless I've missed it), it the impact of any club going into admin on its creditors. The likes of HMRC will survive without the money owed to them but there will be other creditors, many of them small businesses, who stand to loose significant sums of money if they only get their x pence in the pound. That's why there has to be a significant deterrent to any club going into admin (I'm not singling Palace out here), otherwise we'd all be at it.

That said, best of luck to Palace - hope you manage to pull through your troubles.

[Guest Manwithastick]

What with all the stone chucking going in in this glass house, it's to be hoped we can afford the substantial pay offs to the former ceo/kit manufacturer/catering supplier. No doubt the next set of accounts will tell us.

And before you all flipping start, that's not FUD, it's FACT. There's some pretty nasty protestations being directed at the poor fans of another football club. From fans of a football club that it £26 million in debt, is not seriously paying off any of the

capital of that debt, has interest accruing on overdue loan notes and who made how much loss last financial year? Anyone care to remind us?

[Brownlad]

What with all the stone chucking going in in this glass house, it's to be hoped we can afford the substantial pay offs to the former ceo/kit manufacturer/catering supplier. No doubt the next set of accounts will tell us.

And before you all flipping start, that's not FUD, it's FACT. There's some pretty nasty protestations being directed at the poor fans of another football club. From fans of a football club that it £26 million in debt, is not seriously paying off any of the

capital of that debt, has interest accruing on overdue loan notes and who made how much loss last financial year? Anyone care to remind us?

bingo

some of the slating aimed at palace in this thread is unbelievable... and some people seem to preach like we are a beacon of shining example in the world of football finance. Lest we forget that we are one of the original big money f*ck ups.

Let's hope we never go into admin eh?

Administration stinks and yeah, people abuse it and it doesn't seem fair... but the two palace lads on here have got some right poo poo from a few people when they are not only gutted but totally helpless in the situation.

[scram]

bingo

some of the slating aimed at palace in this thread is unbelievable... and some people seem to preach like we are a beacon of shining example in the world of football finance. Lest we forget that we are one of the original big money f*ck ups.

Let's hope we never go into admin eh?

Administration stinks and yeah, people abuse it and it doesn't seem fair... but the two palace lads on here have got some right poo poo from a few people when they are not only gutted but totally helpless in the situation.

Absolutely

It's laughable and hypocritical beyond parody

Wednesday fans giving "advice" and lectures on fiscal policy is akin to Nick Griffin being made head of the race relations board....

I would go so far as to say the ONLY reasons we haven't ended up in admin ourselves is due to the unique spread of shares and leniency of the bank

This is a club who were in the premier and were given £18m (probably worth double that today) - yet within a couple of seasons were bottom of the CCC and £30m+ in debt

[capetownowl]

Personally I think we should have gone the Admin route a long time ago.

It all well and good saying we hold the high moral ground, but what has that achieved us football wise. Nothing in fact it has held us back. We have kept the debt millstone around our neck.

it might not be nice but those who have gone into admin will be passing us on their way up (Leeds) while we wallow waiting for the magical Knight in shining Armour to come and invest in us.

Moral high ground or better football, I know which the majority of Fans would choose.

IMO if we had chosen Admin when we were dropping in to Lge1 we would now be in much better position.

Edited January 27, 2010 by capetownowl

[Wise_Owl]

Absolutely

It's laughable and hypocritical beyond parody

Wednesday fans giving "advice" and lectures on fiscal policy is akin to Nick Griffin being made head of the race relations board....

I would go so far as to say the ONLY reasons we haven't ended up in admin ourselves is due to the unique spread of shares and leniency of the bank

This is a club who were in the premier and were given £18m (probably worth double that today) - yet within a couple of seasons were bottom of the CCC and £30m+ in debt

^^^^

This.

[the_vinyl_frontier]

Feel sorry for the Palace fans. They are the ones that lose out in all this. They were going for play-offs now will be in a relegation scrap. Same with what happened at Luton, its not the club that are hit hardest, but the fans that love THEIR club. Why should the fans have to pay for the chairman not running the club properly.

Obviously I dont know the ins and outs of this, but from football fan to another, it must be gutting to be in the position Palace are in.

Warnock will get them through it im sure though.

[steelowl]

Not sure of financial facts regarding this but who put them into admin? would they have allowed it to happen if they weren't so highly placed ie take the hit?

[Gerinako]

Gutted

Went there Pre-NFL Wembley last year

Nice little stadium with a bit of character - (although only 2 stands are fit n proper for a champ & above club mind imo)

Why couldn't they wait till end of transfer window though - sell Moses and extend there lifeline?

[KivoOwl]

So have they had points deducted?

[fife_owl]

It's all rather sad. Crystal Palace have hardly been chasing the dream, but have clearly spent money on players that they can't afford - so clearly a penalty is deserved. I think this is the first of several clubs to go this way.

For SWFC, quite a lot of the debt is parked - and I found myself wondering why we are so far down the pay league when (thanks to a fantastic relationship with the bank) our debt is not hurting that much. SWFC must have revenues that put us in the top six, yet can only afford bottom of the table wages. Does that mean that most of the championship clubs are running up debts?!

Chairman Lee, are you able to comment?

Edited January 27, 2010 by fife_owl

[Brownlad]

So have they had points deducted?

probably not

the way I read it was that they are in admin... but seeking a buyer... or whatever I can't really explain it..

but it sounds like it's not as bad as say Leeds or Southampton.

[Max]

It's all rather sad. Crystal Palace have hardly been chasing the dream, but have clearly spent money on players that they can't afford - so clearly a penalty is deserved. I think this is the first of several clubs to go this way.

For SWFC, quite a lot of the debt is parked - and I found myself wondering why we are so far down the pay league when (thanks to a fantastic relationship with the bank) our debt is not hurting that much. SWFC must have revenues that put us in the top six, yet can only afford bottom of the table wages. Does that mean that most of the championship clubs are running up debts!

Chairman Lee, are you able to comment?

I think the problem, as has been expertly highlighted by many posters on this board and Wednesdayite board members, is that that simply hasn't been the case. While we probably should have top 6 revenues, for whatever reason under Allen that wasn't the case, and our revenues were sometimes (iirc) under half of our peers'. Part of what LS and NP have done so well is they are bringing these revenues in, exploiting all these missed chances, and making us competitive again - but this takes time.

[enigmamedusa]

Absolutely

It's laughable and hypocritical beyond parody

Wednesday fans giving "advice" and lectures on fiscal policy is akin to Nick Griffin being made head of the race relations board....

I would go so far as to say the ONLY reasons we haven't ended up in admin ourselves is due to the unique spread of shares and leniency of the bank

This is a club who were in the premier and were given £18m (probably worth double that today) - yet within a couple of seasons were bottom of the CCC and £30m+ in debt

I would agree with the bit in bold especially.

But even if we did go into admin, I wouldn't be saying that we shouldn't have a points deduction.

If any club overspends and it all goes wrong there does need to be some sort of points deduction, it wouldn't be fair otherwise on the teams that have run themselves well.

It's too difficult to have a system where if a team goes into admin to benefit themselves they get a 10 point deduction, but if a club just makes some mistakes and are left with no choice then it's alright they get nothing cause we like them. So it's only right that Palace get points deducted, it doesn't mean we think we're great or we think Palace are a bunch or c*nts, it just seems fair.

I don't think there is one person on here that are pleased that Palace have gone into admin.

Hopefully Palace have something lined up

[Otto_Man]

I don't think most on here have a problem with Palace fans, however it's difficult to be all sympathetic when a club that wiped it's debts out 10 years ago is in the poo poo again, particularly when you consider that in the last 10 years they've had: a season in the prem, 2 lots of parachute money and sold a player for over £8m.

Compare their last 10 years to ours, fair play we may have avoided admin by hook or by crook and we're certainly not a shining beacon of fiscal policy, but we have had to endure some pretty bad times (2nd lowest finish in our history anyone?) whilst on the face of it they've had some great times.

I have no axe to grind with either fan, but to come to us, a group of fans who have had to put up with more poo poo than most others in the last 10 years and expect sympathy is a little naive. One of the Palace fans commented on page 2 or 3 that their debt is only a fraction of Man U's, true, but Scarborough's debt was only a fraction of Palace's and they still went out of business and I don't recall either poster kicking up a fuss on here about it.

[torryowl]

The two Palace fans in this thread have handled themselves with real dignity, and so have most of us as well. I do think there has to be a points deduction penalty in these cases, I just can't see a different solution that would be equitable. However it is terribly painful to consider what it must feel like for the fans of the club involved, and after all they are just the same as all of us. Football is a horrible industry in this country now, the greed culture has seeped in and taken hold ever since the evil Murdoch got his claws in.

There is some pause for thought in the fact that Palace went into admin ten years ago. Arguably, the decisions that have left our club in the financial and footballing doldrums for so long were made around the same time - not exactly sure on dates but the signings of the likes of Jonk, de Bilde, Sibon, Hinchcliffe etc must date back to those times. We signed players we couldn't afford to do a job they were not capable of doing. Isn't that what some of the smug-sounding Owls fans in this thread are accusing Palace of?

We have, by the way, no reason to be smug in all this. Nothing is guaranteeing that we will not follow them into administration at some point in the future. Imagine for example what will happen if we achieve the holy grail of investment... then get our current debt cleared... then start to pick up results on the pitch... then spend a bit of cash in January of whatever year in a bid to get promoted... get promoted, spend more cash... Sky goes bust and the Premier League stops paying stupid money to its clubs ... we get relegated, no parachute payments, player contracts to be honoured, mounting tax debts due to profits that were generated in better times... admin!

It could happen to any club, I really hope it never happens to us. Very best wishes to Palace supporters and to Neil Warnock and his squad of players.

not sure about the dignity thing ,what were they trying to say, seemed to me they blamed admin on football in general and the greed of the big prem clubs at the end of the day the only ones to blame are crystal palce fc they spent money they didnt have and everyone knows if you dont pay the taxman you are in big trouble .clubs like palace, chelsea, sheff utd newcastle etc are rich men toys and when the rich guys tire or run out of money they are in big trouble .

[Brownlad]

not sure about the dignity thing ,what were they trying to say, seemed to me they blamed admin on football in general and the greed of the big prem clubs at the end of the day the only ones to blame are crystal palce fc they spent money they didnt have and everyone knows if you dont pay the taxman you are in big trouble .clubs like palace, chelsea, sheff utd newcastle etc are rich men toys and when the rich guys tire or run out of money they are in big trouble .

...and the fans get f*cked up the arse.

Admin isn't fair and isn't nice - for anyone.

The only people I don't have any sympathy for when a club goes into administration, is the people who are directly responsible for putting it there.

Even then, its not hard to see why it happens in some cases. When you are talking embezzlement and dodgy dealings then they deserve to be blasted - but when they are chasing the dream... appeasing their supporters who are the clubs lifeblood, their very existence, then it's hard to be as completely critical.

If Wednesday came out tomorrow and said "want us to have a gamble at getting up to the prem?" I'm pretty sure the overwhelming response would be "yes!"

Clubs want to be succesful - their fans want them to be succesful and the people who run them, in most instances, also want to be succesful.

However it's becoming more and more apparent that it just quite simply, isn't viable.