Crystal Palace in Admin

[torryowl]

I would agree with the bit in bold especially.

But even if we did go into admin, I wouldn't be saying that we shouldn't have a points deduction.

If any club overspends and it all goes wrong there does need to be some sort of points deduction, it wouldn't be fair otherwise on the teams that have run themselves well.

It's too difficult to have a system where if a team goes into admin to benefit themselves they get a 10 point deduction, but if a club just makes some mistakes and are left with no choice then it's alright they get nothing cause we like them. So it's only right that Palace get points deducted, it doesn't mean we think we're great or we think Palace are a bunch or c*nts, it just seems fair.

I don't think there is one person on here that are pleased that Palace have gone into admin.

Hopefully Palace have something lined up

if they finish 22nd and we finish 21st think there will quite a few who are pleased they gone into admin.........

[Hawkeye]

Personally I think we should have gone the Admin route a long time ago.

It all well and good saying we hold the high moral ground, but what has that achieved us football wise. Nothing in fact it has held us back. We have kept the debt millstone around our neck.

it might not be nice but those who have gone into admin will be passing us on their way up (Leeds) while we wallow waiting for the magical Knight in shining Armour to come and invest in us.

Moral high ground or better football, I know which the majority of Fans would choose.

IMO if we had chosen Admin when we were dropping in to Lge1 we would now be in much better position.

Any business that allows its outgoings to be higher than its incomings is asking for trouble. The people who actually suffer in administration, are the people who are owed the money - a lot of businesses go bust because someone else has gone into administration.

I for one hope we never go down this route - we spent money we dont have, and now we have to pay the piper. Harsh but true. Feel sorry for the palace fans, but they have to ask the question of the people in charge - how did they allow this to happen?

[NYCOWL]

...and the fans get f*cked up the arse.

Admin isn't fair and isn't nice - for anyone.

The only people I don't have any sympathy for when a club goes into administration, is the people who are directly responsible for putting it there.

Even then, its not hard to see why it happens in some cases. When you are talking embezzlement and dodgy dealings then they deserve to be blasted - but when they are chasing the dream... appeasing their supporters who are the clubs lifeblood, their very existence, then it's hard to be as completely critical.

If Wednesday came out tomorrow and said "want us to have a gamble at getting up to the prem?" I'm pretty sure the overwhelming response would be "yes!"

Clubs want to be succesful - their fans want them to be succesful and the people who run them, in most instances, also want to be succesful.

However it's becoming more and more apparent that it just quite simply, isn't viable.

really? You'd get a big No! From me

[torryowl]

really? You'd get a big No! From me

and me !!!!

[Guest mikeglossopowl]

I note that most comments today are in sympathy with Palace Fans and so they should be...there by the grace of God etc. Unfortunately, I think Palace are just the tip of the iceberg, and we'll be having the same discussion again this season as other clubs go into administration.

With regards to the points deduction....I reckon 10 or more likely 15. Only because the likes of Rotherham, Bournemouth, Leeds etc. were deducted more points for going into administration again/not getting out of administration. The penalties against Palace have to be roughly the same or the other clubs will be sueing the League.

Good Luck to the Palace fans.

[Apple]

I'll be 100% honest here...

I'm more worried by Sheffield Wednesday than Crystal Palace and their financial issues.

However, I take no enjoyment seeing a club fall on it's arse. I imagine if it was my club and how I'd feel.

So I hope Palace pull through, but I'm not losing sleep over it or joining any protests.

Good luck Palace fans.

[DessieBoy]

I'll be 100% honest here...

I'm more worried by Sheffield Wednesday than Crystal Palace and their financial issues.

However, I take no enjoyment seeing a club fall on it's arse. I imagine if it was my club and how I'd feel.

So I hope Palace pull through, but I'm not losing sleep over it or joining any protests.

Good luck Palace fans.

Amen

[RichSheffWeds]

Absolutely

It's laughable and hypocritical beyond parody

Wednesday fans giving "advice" and lectures on fiscal policy is akin to Nick Griffin being made head of the race relations board....

I would go so far as to say the ONLY reasons we haven't ended up in admin ourselves is due to the unique spread of shares and leniency of the bank

This is a club who were in the premier and were given £18m (probably worth double that today) - yet within a couple of seasons were bottom of the CCC and £30m+ in debt

For me this is not about Wednesday or Palace, it's about football as a whole borrowing money it cannot repay.

Wednesday screwed up big time but through good luck or good management with the bank have continued to service the debt. If we cannot service the debt and go into administration then we deserve to be punished.

Football needs to cut it's cloth according to it's means. If clubs gamble or screw up by offering players ridiculous contracts and borrow money they can't service they need to suffer the consequences. The punishment has to be a deterent otherwise clubs owned by egocentric individuals will continue this crazy cycle. If it takes more clubs to go then so be it. (If West Ham or Portsmouth went into admin after their wild spending spree on players wages I wouldn't shed a tear.)

Why should a club like say, Sflaphorpe operate with a very modest budget and another club in the CCC pay higher wages and attract better players when in reality they can't afford them. It's an unfair advantage, if it comes back to haunt them later so be it. Maybe the fans of Palace should be looking at the way the club has been run.

[Dark$ide]

I'll be 100% honest here...

I'm more worried by Sheffield Wednesday than Crystal Palace and their financial issues.

However, I take no enjoyment seeing a club fall on it's arse. I imagine if it was my club and how I'd feel.

So I hope Palace pull through, but I'm not losing sleep over it or joining any protests.

Good luck Palace fans.

unless its the blades obviously :-)

[Guest thetruthisoutthere]

At the end of the day they went into admin 10 years ago and cleared all debts

They have overspent by an average of £3 million pounds a year consistently for 10 years (averaged admitted) resulting in another 30m of debt

To overspend by this much consistently over such a long period of time in the full knowledge of what the consequences would be stinks if you ask me

Reverse the scenario a minute, im going to paint the picture a different way so we can all relate to it a little easier

2000 Sheffield Wednesday go into admin (10 years ago), we take the hit and lose 10 points, our ground, our facilities and players

A totally embarrassing situation but we do it none the less

We start fresh with no debt at all......a clean slate if you will

After spending on average £3 million pounds a year above what we generate in income 2010 Sheffield Wednesday again go into Admin

Personally if this had happened i would be holding my hands up and saying yes we deserve all we get, 2nd time in 10 years i would expect a lot bigger than a 10 point reduction and i think most fans would be of the same opinion and try and salvage some self respect out of the whole sorry saga

I wouldnt say the fans are as responsible as those in charge cos obviously they are not, but at the end of the day no one was complaining when this overspending was occuring were they, it's hardly fair to egg the club on to sign players they cannot afford to pay and then when it goes t1ts up wash your hands of the club and say it was the chairmans fault and we the fans don't want to have to suffer for the chairmans inept actions.

As fans and Football clubs we laugh together and we cry together

I do feel for the fans of Crystal Palace but not because they have gone into admin......i feel sorry for them for what they are about to endure, but for any palace fan to claim 10 points is enough is clearly speaking with their heart and not their head.This admin route many clubs take must be discouraged in my opinion as there are way too many casualties that simply do not get paid what they are owed, personally i would like to see automatic relegation and a heafty point reduction at the start of the following season.

[MAL]

I don't think most on here have a problem with Palace fans, however it's difficult to be all sympathetic when a club that wiped it's debts out 10 years ago is in the poo poo again, particularly when you consider that in the last 10 years they've had: a season in the prem, 2 lots of parachute money and sold a player for over £8m.

Compare their last 10 years to ours, fair play we may have avoided admin by hook or by crook and we're certainly not a shining beacon of fiscal policy, but we have had to endure some pretty bad times (2nd lowest finish in our history anyone?) whilst on the face of it they've had some great times.

I have no axe to grind with either fan, but to come to us, a group of fans who have had to put up with more poo poo than most others in the last 10 years and expect sympathy is a little naive. One of the Palace fans commented on page 2 or 3 that their debt is only a fraction of Man U's, true, but Scarborough's debt was only a fraction of Palace's and they still went out of business and I don't recall either poster kicking up a fuss on here about it.

Good post.

There are a few people on here that own their own business.

If you had done deals with another Company, and they owed you money, money that they couldn't or could or would not pay you, this money will keep your Company in business, without it you will fold. would you?

1) Think, okay that's not good, i could lose my house and family and health, my staff could lose their house and family and health, but i have to take into account that if i put them into admin, their staff will lose their jobs, and could lose their house and family and health .

2) Think, That's hard lines for them, but i have to look after my own interests, and own staff.

3) Would you, after hearing that this is the second time in ten years, change your mind on the answer?

Most people on here work for a Company.

Which number would you want?

Nothing against Crystal Palace fans (unlike some other teams fans), but we have to look at the bigger picture here.

Until told otherwise, it is, there but for the grace of god go i.

[NYCOWL]

I don't really understand what the two fans were looking for on here. If we went into admin, the last place I would look for sympathy would be another clubs forum, i'd expect none.

For the record, they got pretty much the response I would expect, a cross section, ranging from the supportive, to the moronic.

I disabused myself of the notion that other football fans care about Sheffield Wednesday a long, long time ago. So now I only care about Sheffield Wednesday.

Good luck to Palace, but this has been stated many times, It's not personal.

I don't think a 10 point penalty is enough

[owllincoln]

I don't think most on here have a problem with Palace fans, however it's difficult to be all sympathetic when a club that wiped it's debts out 10 years ago is in the poo poo again, particularly when you consider that in the last 10 years they've had: a season in the prem, 2 lots of parachute money and sold a player for over £8m.

Compare their last 10 years to ours, fair play we may have avoided admin by hook or by crook and we're certainly not a shining beacon of fiscal policy, but we have had to endure some pretty bad times (2nd lowest finish in our history anyone?) whilst on the face of it they've had some great times.

I have no axe to grind with either fan, but to come to us, a group of fans who have had to put up with more poo poo than most others in the last 10 years and expect sympathy is a little naive. One of the Palace fans commented on page 2 or 3 that their debt is only a fraction of Man U's, true, but Scarborough's debt was only a fraction of Palace's and they still went out of business and I don't recall either poster kicking up a fuss on here about it.

Have to agree,

An example of a club that messed up and didnt learn their lesson.

I feel sorry for the fans but also for any local businesses who are owed money who may now also go out of business.

[owllincoln]

I don't think a 10 point penalty is enough

As it is their 2nd time into admin, i have to agree.

[robswfc]

if they finish 22nd and we finish 21st think there will quite a few who are pleased they gone into admin.........

if they finish 21st and we finish 22nd I will be absolutely livid that they've got away with it....

F*ck palace, I couldn't give two sh*ts about them, WEDNESDAY is what matters, and if them going into admin helps us avoid going down, and possibly into admin ourselves (NOT saying this will happen), then I'll be absolutely ecstatic.

[dr. benway]

We could always sue if that happens

[BRADDAZ]

Administration twice in 10 years is not acceptable and they should be severly punished. Not 10 points either, a more severe punishment is needed really.

Harsh on Palace fans, who have put their hard earned cash into the football club and supported them, but unfortunately for them they've been shafted twice by people running their football club and people won't get paid because of it. Whether it's the tax man, a large creditor or a local pie making business, these people may not get paid, which could have a knock on effect to their business (making reference to local businesses) and may result in financial difficulties and people losing their jobs.

Palace won't be the last, we'll be seeing a lot more clubs going into Admin over the next few years, including a few Premier League teams.

A couple of questions though...

When will football clubs learn to cut their cloth accordingly?

And...

How many clubs need to go into Admin before the relevent football authorities do something about it?

Edited January 27, 2010 by BRADDAZ

[Guest clumber58]

I don't really understand what the two fans were looking for on here. If we went into admin, the last place I would look for sympathy would be another clubs forum, i'd expect none.

For the record, they got pretty much the response I would expect, a cross section, ranging from the supportive, to the moronic.

I disabused myself of the notion that other football fans care about Sheffield Wednesday a long, long time ago. So now I only care about Sheffield Wednesday.

Good luck to Palace, but this has been stated many times, It's not personal.

I don't think a 10 point penalty is enough

Exactly what I was thinking...."why would Crystal Palace fans jump onto a Sheffield Wednesday fans the day that their Club went into Administration?". Very strange.

I'm not bothered what happens to them, but looking at it from afar, someone (property companies?, ex-chairmen?, ex-players?) have made alot of money out of Palace since they last went into Administration. Alot of Sky money/parachute payments has poured in over the last few years.

I favour automatic relegation and a ten point penalty the following season. Tough on the fans, but too many Clubs are using it as a way of wiping the slate clean.

I've lost count of how many Clubs have been in or are still in Administration.....Leeds, Leicester, Rotherham (twice), Palace (twice), Middlesbrough, Wolves?, Lincoln, Bradford, Huddersfield, Darlington, Notts County?.................is there a list somewhere?

[cardiffowl06]

Don't forget Leicester.

Its a shambolic way out, especially using it twice! The club should pay a larger punishment than 10 points, they should have rebuilt properly, out of profits, not digging themselves a bigger new hole.

[mirodo]

I've lost count of how many Clubs have been in or are still in Administration.....Leeds, Leicester, Rotherham (twice), Palace (twice), Middlesbrough, Wolves?, Lincoln, Bradford, Huddersfield, Darlington, Notts County?.................is there a list somewhere?

Charlton 1984

Middlesbrough 1986

Tranmere 1987

Newport County 1989

Walsall 1990

Northampton 1992

Kettering 1992

Aldershot 1992

Maidstone 1992

Hartlepool 1994

Barnet 1994

Exeter 1994, 2003

Gillingham 1995

Doncaster 1997

Millwall 1997

Bournemouth 1997, 2008

Darlington 1997, 2009

Chester 1998, 2009

Hereford 1998

Portsmouth 1999

Crystal Palace 1999

Oxford Utd 1999

Barrow 1999

Swindon 2000, 2002

Scarborough 2000

Hull 2001

QPR 2001

Chesterfield 2001

Leicester 2002

Barnsley 2002

Carlisle 2002

Notts County 2002

Bury 2002

Bradford 2002

Port Vale 2002

Lincoln City 2002

York 2002

Halifax Town 2002, 2008

Derby 2003

Ipswich 2003

Huddersfield 2003

Oldham 2003

MK Dons 2003

Wimbledon 2003

Wrexham 2004

Cambridge 2005

Crawley Town 2006

Rotherham 2006, 2008

Leeds United 2007

Boston United 2007

Southampton 2008

Luton 2008

Stockport 2009

Salisbury 2009

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

Quite a list!