IF we go up, do we have the quality to stay up?

[robowl4life]

Wait until we get a good seeing to by Hartlepool tonight… we’ll be debating if we’ve enough quality to survive league 2!

 

[WhiteOwl91]

1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

so very similar then. Surely we aren’t splitting hairs over a goal here and there. 

We did also play Wigan Plymouth Oxford Ipswich and Rotherham with Iorfa. 

 

My point was we would have a better defence with Iorfa in it (and Hutchinson) rather than without and i don't think thats unfair to suggest. 

 

The record with Iorfa in it amounts to conceding 41ish goals over a 46 game season.

That's pretty decent and would have been the 2nd best defensive record in the league last season. 

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Silkstone Owl said:

Aye fair point 

 

it’s hardly confirmation bias though is it?  Some teams do well some teams don’t, but that’s just ‘football’ in general 

Agreed but Rotherham now on their longest unbeaten run under PW yet we keep hearing how good teams are in this League and how hard it is to get out of it.How silly will we look if WW and Rotherham get promoted automatically again believing that?

[WhiteOwl91]

1 hour ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

i agree 100% that it doesn’t compare and credit to the make shift defence we have still managed to pick up points…however my point is hutch, dunkley and iorfa have played in the same team at the start of the season in various combinations and still conceded goals. We have averaged a goal a game at present…that’s even with the missing players in the side. 
 

if we are averaging a goal a game in L1, I don’t see how this would improve at an higher level. 

I agree it wouldnt improve a level higher. 

[Mr. Chow]

We won’t be going up this season, still a rebuild in the process. 

[Wednesday_Jack]

25 minutes ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

We did also play Wigan Plymouth Oxford Ipswich and Rotherham with Iorfa. 

 

My point was we would have a better defence with Iorfa in it (and Hutchinson) rather than without and i don't think thats unfair to suggest. 

 

The record with Iorfa in it amounts to conceding 41ish goals over a 46 game season.

That's pretty decent and would have been the 2nd best defensive record in the league last season. 

 

Correct but that's at league one level and it means we are conceding nearly a goal a game even with these players in the side....the question was " would we be good enough if we go up". Based on these stats the answer is no we wouldn't be because it would mean we have to score 2 goals every game to succeed, which we know from experience isn't good enough and a very risky strategy. 

 

If you look at our recent Championship playoff seasons we have kept 17 clean sheets in each season. The difference between standards and what is required in each league is a MASSIVE difference. Even with Hutch Iorfa and Dunkley fit and starting, we wouldn't achieve this.

[parajack]

3 hours ago, Silkstone Owl said:

Aye fair point 

 

it’s hardly confirmation bias though is it?  Some teams do well some teams don’t, but that’s just ‘football’ in general 

Agreed,however Rotherham just achieved a record(for this Division) unbeaten under PW for them how hard than is it to win games in L1? How silly will we look saying it’s a hard League to get out of if WW & Rotherham jump straight back into the Championship automatically? Whilst we may,MAY have a chance to do so through the lottery of the ‘play offs’?

[1867Heaven]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:37, HootHoot said:

I look at the teams that consistently yo-yo between L1 and the Championship. Both Wycombe and Rotherham are having great seasons in league one this season, yet last season in the championship they were terrible and my thinking is they'll struggle in the league above as usual.

 

It got me thinking, if we get promoted do we have what it takes to stay up? 

 

Personally, I think we'd need to have a very good transfer window to stand a chance. 

 

What do you guys think?

A very good transfer window to stand a chance of staying up is a bit harsh, most of our recent signings are young and will improve…but also, what indication has Chansiri given that he won’t continue to invest in the team?

[0742]

This forum: we just need to play the right formation and players in the right position and we'll go up 

 

Also this forum: see, when we played players in the right position, it clicks and we look great

 

Also this forum once the team is clicking: let's not talk about promotion 

[quinnssweetshop]

9 minutes ago, 0742 said:

This forum: we just need to play the right formation and players in the right position and we'll go up 

 

Also this forum: see, when we played players in the right position, it clicks and we look great

 

Also this forum once the team is clicking: let's not talk about promotion 

Also this forum : Seen enough over the years to be realistic 

[Dutch McLovin]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:37, HootHoot said:

I look at the teams that consistently yo-yo between L1 and the Championship. Both Wycombe and Rotherham are having great seasons in league one this season, yet last season in the championship they were terrible and my thinking is they'll struggle in the league above as usual.

 

It got me thinking, if we get promoted do we have what it takes to stay up? 

 

Personally, I think we'd need to have a very good transfer window to stand a chance. 

 

What do you guys think?

We do have a better squad than last year but we really would need investment to stay up.

 

We have signed well to get up this season but would need to do the same to stay up next year. 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

We did also play Wigan Plymouth Oxford Ipswich and Rotherham with Iorfa. 

 

My point was we would have a better defence with Iorfa in it (and Hutchinson) rather than without and i don't think thats unfair to suggest. 

 

The record with Iorfa in it amounts to conceding 41ish goals over a 46 game season.

That's pretty decent and would have been the 2nd best defensive record in the league last season. 

Iorfa gets in when fit no doubt but to the right of Dunkley in a three. If we reverted to a back four then I'm not sure Iorfa would be comfortable on the left and our best CB (Dunkley) should not be shuffled across to accommdate.

A back three of Iorfa, Dunkley and one of Palmer/Johnson/Hutch looks tasty to me. 

I liked what Johnson brought when tried there but Palmer has impressed me the most in that position this season so far. Hutch of course is a great option when his more robust attributes are needed.

[briggowl]

No but FFP rules reset so time for Chansiri to throw his millions back into it..............

[WhiteOwl91]

11 hours ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

 

Correct but that's at league one level and it means we are conceding nearly a goal a game even with these players in the side....the question was " would we be good enough if we go up". Based on these stats the answer is no we wouldn't be because it would mean we have to score 2 goals every game to succeed, which we know from experience isn't good enough and a very risky strategy. 

 

If you look at our recent Championship playoff seasons we have kept 17 clean sheets in each season. The difference between standards and what is required in each league is a MASSIVE difference. Even with Hutch Iorfa and Dunkley fit and starting, we wouldn't achieve this.

To be honest I think it’s more a reflection on midfield than anything else and us not having a proper left back. 
 

Luongo makes that midfield far more robust at least. Midfield has been very lightweight especially defensively this season (well for numerous seasons really)
 

Agreed with respect to that defence not being near the better sides in the champ. More mobile quality forwards would give the likes of Dunkley a much harder time and much less forgiving.  

[parajack]

On 30/11/2021 at 12:48, NorthernOwl said:

 

Probably because Ipswich and Sunderland are similar clubs to us and we share a lot in common.

They are nothing like us....and both have been languishing in the doldrums in Div 3 for long enough....completely different to our current situation,relegated only by an EFL sanction,still a Championship Club at season end on merit,despite all our documented issues.

7 members of our current squad/team were with us last Year, with wages at Championship level,and the remainder recruited from Championship or PL Clubs....

1. Thats our recent  history(the one that is relevant).............   and why DM shouldnt be allowed to get away with thinking 7th in Div3 is good enough

[NorthernOwl]

22 minutes ago, parajack said:

They are nothing like us....and both have been languishing in the doldrums in Div 3 for long enough....completely different to our current situation,relegated only by an EFL sanction,still a Championship Club at season end on merit,despite all our documented issues.

7 members of our current squad/team were with us last Year, with wages at Championship level,and the remainder recruited from Championship or PL Clubs....

1. Thats our recent  history(the one that is relevant).............   and why DM shouldnt be allowed to get away with thinking 7th in Div3 is good enough

 

Well I respectfully disagree. Both were in very similar situations to us when they first went down. They retained many of their 'championship' squad as well. They face the same issue as us in that smaller teams see us as a cup final and raise their game.

 

Sure we would have finished 4th bottom without the sanction. Hardly a ringing endorsement of a quality squad, especially since several of our better players have since left.

 

Yes we recruited players who have had to drop down a level to find a club. I'm not sure what that is supposed to tell us. Given how most of them have performed its very clear why they couldn't cut the mustard at championship level.

 

As for DM I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with 7th place at the end of the season. Nor would I.

 

The point is that our performances are very clearly improving as the squad gels. That was always going to take time. The expectation now is that the second half of the season will be stronger than the first.

[parajack]

1 minute ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Well I respectfully disagree. Both were in very similar situations to us when they first went down. They retained many of their 'championship' squad as well. They face the same issue as us in that smaller teams see us as a cup final and raise their game.

 

Sure we would have finished 4th bottom without the sanction. Hardly a ringing endorsement of a quality squad, especially since several of our better players have since left.

 

Yes we recruited players who have had to drop down a level to find a club. I'm not sure what that is supposed to tell us. Given how most of them have performed its very clear why they couldn't cut the mustard at championship level.

 

As for DM I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with 7th place at the end of the season. Nor would I.

 

The point is that our performances are very clearly improving as the squad gels. That was always going to take time. The expectation now is that the second half of the season will be stronger than the first.

There improving because we have put 2 up front,Windass is fit now,and the division is poor......I believe DM could see the tin tack coming if performances & results didnt improve quickly....

Hence the 2 up top and less playing it out...,

Something we should have started the season doing..........& whilst we are at it,if DM hadnt brought in his 'playing it out' systym last Year,to players who were unfamiliar with it,with many leaving at the end of the season could we have got the three points we needed to stay up?

Cos i think the answer to that is a resounding YES

[NorthernOwl]

6 minutes ago, parajack said:

There improving because we have put 2 up front,Windass is fit now,and the division is poor......I believe DM could see the tin tack coming if performances & results didnt improve quickly....

Hence the 2 up top and less playing it out...,

Something we should have started the season doing..........& whilst we are at it,if DM hadnt brought in his 'playing it out' systym last Year,to players who were unfamiliar with it,with many leaving at the end of the season could we have got the three points we needed to stay up?

Cos i think the answer to that is a resounding YES

 

Agree with much of this and these are all points that speak in DMs favour. A willingness to be adaptable and to go for a formation and style of play that delivers results.  Rather than dogmatically sticking to a preconceived idea of what might work.

 

As for last season I'd say DM was way, way down the list of people who were culpable for our relegation.

 

 

 

[parajack]

13 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Agree with much of this and these are all points that speak in DMs favour. A willingness to be adaptable and to go for a formation and style of play that delivers results.  Rather than dogmatically sticking to a preconceived idea of what might work.

 

As for last season I'd say DM was way, way down the list of people who were culpable for our relegation.

 

 

 

Yes i agree,but he is on that list in my view at least we agree on that....our season despite all its troubles was salvageable,even up to the last day.....

Lets see where this season goes under him,and if he stays with his current set up,or reverts back to more 'playing it out'.....

We are currently scoring goals,where before we had few chances under the playing it out,and lone striker...with Gregory ineffective without support.

How many points did that cost us? ...I remain unconvinced that DM has  accepted that playing it out(and straight into trouble) is foolish....and worry we will see more points thrown away.....

We will see,some of the teams above us currently hold games in hand,and if they 'bank' them will see us drop further behind the field.

 

[KivoOwl]

No.

 

Who have we got that is Chanpionship quality? Bannan, Iorfa, Hutchinson, Luongo that’s about it