Frank Lampard - Bannan, Lee and formations

[cookeh]

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

How about removing Rhodes out of the starting line up for a start. FF just behind the centre forward. Sorted.

[shandypants]

1 hour ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

I like the idea that the team doesn’t pick itself. We need to have variety in our formations and styles. 

[vulture_squadron]

I like the look of the 352 lineup. Definitely worth considering how to get the best out of Rhodes if he doesn't move on for whatever reason. I've always thought Nuhiu would be his best partner.

 

If we can't shift Rhodes then we may have to lose Hooper or Forestieri to keep afloat. Then 3 in midfield and 2 up top would probably have to be the way forward.

 

[cookeh]

1 hour ago, CLswfc said:

How about removing Rhodes out of the starting line up for a start. FF just behind the centre forward. Sorted.

 

10/10 for discussing the point.. classic owlstalk focussing on one largely irrelevant detail and ignoring the actual discussion.

[cookeh]

5 minutes ago, vulture_squadron said:

If we can't shift Rhodes then we may have to lose Hooper or Forestieri to keep afloat. Then 3 in midfield and 2 up top would probably have to be the way forward.

 

Yeah, it certainly feels like if Nando goes, then any idea of a front 3 is out of the window. We've barely go the players to play it as it is, Joao's not really a wide right, Matias could if he was it.. but after that you're looking at Boyd, who isn't much of a goal threat.

[Holmowl]

Great OP but incorrect.

 

Bannan-Lee in tandem has been our most successful (points per game - what else matters?) pairing.

 

Our form with those two central is auto-promotion. 

 

 

[pazowl55]

16 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

Great OP but incorrect.

 

Bannan-Lee in tandem has been our most successful (points per game - what else matters?) pairing.

 

Our form with those two central is auto-promotion. 

 

 

The reason it worked well was because Bannan was always willing to drop so deep.

It also helps that Lee is a box to box machine.

 

Put two other forward thinking players in there.

Bannan and Abdi or Lee and Abdi then it dont work as well.

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by pazowl55

[billyblack]

4 hours ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

which is why with lampard they just needed to play one and the other is a sub. not diffficult. just that no one had the minerals to do it

[No 2 is r nilsson]

8 hours ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

I’d say where’s Hooper in your lineups. 2 or 3 up front surely he has to be in there. 

[wellowl]

Weswood

Lee  Venancio  Lees  Pudil  Reach

Bannan  Hutch  Nando

Hooper  Joao

 

 

[Yellowbelly]

I'd go 4-3-3 with a new left back & Forestieri & Reach either side of one of our numerous strikers. What Reach lacks in goal threat he more than makes up in energy and running, he could tie up a couple of defenders on his own, making space for the others. 

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

9 hours ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

KL at right back-his original position. Job done 

[Simaniac Owl]

9 hours ago, cookeh said:

Just watched this:

 

 

Interesting interview, but from 9:50ish onwards he's talking about the Lampard/Gerrard partnership and why it didn't work particularly well. Particularly focussing on the fact that while they were both forward minded players, playing in a 2 they had no freedom to break forwards, because they were constantly worrying about where the other one was.

 

Got me thinking that the same was true when we were playing Bannan and Lee in a 2 together. They both want to be forward, supporting the attack, Bannan just behind the forwards, switching play and Lee running beyond them. Lampard solution was to play a midfield 3, so in our case, putting Pessy or Hutch behind Bannan and Lee, letting them go forwards freely. All seems very sensible.

 

The problem then becomes.. how that affects the formation.

If we're playing 3 in the middle of the park, we can't really play 3 forwards. There just aren't enough players to do it.

352 is a possibility.. Something like:

Rhodes - Nuhiu
Reach - Bannan - Pessy - Lee - Hunt

Pudil - Lees - Venancio

Westwood

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top? Could be interesting.

Or do we end up having to go 433?

Nando - Nuhiu - Joao

Bannan - Pessy - Lee

[someone] - Pudil - Lees - Hunt

Westwood

Obvious problems.. no true left back..
Joao's not great at defending against an attacking left back/wing back..
No place for Reach..
Only 1 real striking spot.

 

To me it's a really interesting puzzle of how can we play an effective system, one that leverages the players we have in the best way, avoiding falling into the trap that Capello seems to have done with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

Obviously this is hoping that Lee returns to fitness and form, but we have a handful of players you could put in there in his place..

Reach, Clare, Abdi, Boyd, even Matias (played 1 game there iirc and look alright centrally)

 

What are you folks' thoughts?

To me this also kind of highlights the need to ship out an awful lot of players, as there's a lot of names i've not mentioned at all.

 

A conundrum that be easily solved by 

[Dutch McLovin]

16 hours ago, billyblack said:

which is why with lampard they just needed to play one and the other is a sub. not diffficult. just that no one had the minerals to do it

This.

 

if we don’t play a 3 man midfield which I don’t think we will (I think 343 will be our preferred formation) then it’s one of the other. Over a long hard season I’m pretty sure that they will both get plenty of game time.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

13 hours ago, wellowl said:

Weswood

Lee  Venancio  Lees  Pudil  Reach

Bannan  Hutch  Nando

Hooper  Joao

 

 

Having Lee at rb would be a waste of his box to box abilities and potentially a liability in defence. Not knocking Lee in anyway, as he'd probably do whatever the gaffer tells him.

[Owl At Risk]

22 hours ago, cookeh said:

But how to do you get Nando into that side? Nando - Nuhiu up top?

 

21 hours ago, CLswfc said:

How about removing Rhodes out of the starting line up for a start. FF just behind the centre forward. Sorted.

 

20 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

10/10 for discussing the point.. classic owlstalk focussing on one largely irrelevant detail and ignoring the actual discussion.

 

@cookeh you ask just one direct question in your rambling OP.

 

@CLswfc gives you a direct answer.

 

You castigate them for giving you a succinct answer, labeling your own question as a "largely irrelevant detail".

 

"Classic Owlstalk"!

[shandypants]

13 hours ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said:

KL at right back-his original position. Job done 

Why do people still pursue this flawed notion that Lee is a right back. He’s the best midfielder in the club if not one of the best in the league. 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

With a couple of additions we could really make the 4-2-3-1 system work:

 

Westwood

 

Hunt. Lees New CB reach 

 

 Lee./bannan.  Pessy/Hutchinson

 

João hooper forrestieri

 

Nuhiu

[james o connor]

32 minutes ago, shandypants said:

Why do people still pursue this flawed notion that Lee is a right back. He’s the best midfielder in the club if not one of the best in the league. 

We are people still pursuing the fact lee will play a role . His hip is knackered , he’s had it