SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY - ACCOUNTS AND FFP THREAD

[steelowl]

1 minute ago, Geoffrey said:

He could improve the academy or buy a new training ground. Why won't he if he wants to invest more?

both I believe are free of restriction 

 

i'll have a stab he didn't see the point   - well next year is why we needed to from day one of his monied tenure 

 

[Mr Farrell]

1 minute ago, Costello 77 said:

Perhaps he's had the plug pulled on his own budget?

 

FFS.

 

That's an issue in itself as we don't know what his budget is or where it's coming from.

[markowl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

I genuinely don't understand why you're 'on one' like this

It's ridiculous

 

Cool.

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, room0035 said:

If the accounts are as bad as these are why did we not take the £15m Derby offered for Fessi, yes the fans would have been unhappy but when we are this much in the poo, that's £15m + the saving on his salary.

 

This is the sort of thing being said when DC does not know what he is doing. You still have to run a club to either make a profit or cover your costs. Neither of which we are doing.

 

 

Bloody hell you would have been the first to tear him apart if he had sold him.  That's the beauty of being whinger you can always find an angle to have a go at the club.

[room0035]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I think Fessi is seen as the single handed route to promotion

I know but you have to sacrifice your talent sometimes to move forward as a club. Now instead of having a lose of say £10-12m and Fessi gone we are totally in the brown stuff and come next season will be under an embargo and better still the best young players we have seen for 15 years + may not even be at the club in Clare and Hirst.

[Lichfield alien]

So he's lost 30 mill so far and some people think he might want to start spending even more??

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Watson said:

Bloody hell you would have been the first to tear him apart if he had sold him.  That's the beauty of being whinger you can always find an angle to have a go at the club.

 

By the same argument on the flip side the beauty of being the opposite of that it's easy to dismiss anything to find an angle to spin the positives of the club even if/when things aren't going great or properly.

There has to be some kind of middle ground doesn't there?

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Lichfield alien said:

So he's lost 30 mill so far and some people think he might want to start spending even more??

The chairman has said it himself a few times mate

[sonofbert2]

2 minutes ago, Geoffrey said:

He could improve the academy or buy a new training ground. Why won't he if he wants to invest more?

 

Do you get extra points for faciiities when you're trying to get promoted (quickly)?

 

Don't most clubs invest in their infrastrucre once the goal is reached or maybe you can point to some examples of these other caring chairmen types who do these things you constantly criticise ours for not doing.

 

It seems the famous "promise" of promotion in 3 years only suits one side of the argument in a single context.

[room0035]

1 minute ago, Watson said:

 

 

Bloody hell you would have been the first to tear him apart if he had sold him.  That's the beauty of being whinger you can always find an angle to have a go at the club.

Look I would be lying if I said I would not be happy but a player we bought for £3m sold for £15m and £3-4m of that money reinvested in a decent replacement or strengthening elsewhere with 6 other strikers in the books we would have got over it.

 

Now we will have to listen to offers for everyone and those offers will not be the best we could get but what we need to accept.

[steelowl]

1 minute ago, Lichfield alien said:

So he's lost 30 mill so far and some people think he might want to start spending even more??

'whatever it takes'

[Guest mkowl]

Ok what to say that this thread has not already said.

 

So I will try and comment on a few other points.

 

The strategic report at the start of the accounts suggests that the average attendance was 27k up from 22k. It confuses me why the turnover is only similar but I concur with others that the benefit of reaching the play off final the season before was significant. 

 

On the basis the TV and solidarity payments are I think 6m it shows to me that match day income is still only about 10m. A good chunk of that was multi year season ticket monies rolled forward. Of course the renewals this time last year are rolled into 17/18. 

 

The accounts show expenditure of 11m on transfer fees. What I would say here is that a lot of transfer fee agreements are paid in instalments. A figure that caught my eye was 4m shown as trade creditors due more than a year. I can only think it is transfer instalments as not sure what other supplier would be happy to wait more than 12 months to be paid.

 

The other stand out figure is 37m shareholder loan from DC an increase of 20m. Ok it is to DC not a bank or 3rd parties so much lower risk than the old days but it is now at a level equivalent to that era. 

 

Of course these accounts do not show what DC paid MM for the shares. Poster on here has that figure IIRC about 35m to 40m. Also the fact he has introduced funds allocated as share capital - think that is 8m or so now.

 

Add it up and factor in this year and he is in for over 100m easily now. That is a scary number for him. 

 

The wage costs are incredible. Ok it includes the Club employees not just players but we are talking 500k a week in wages. A figure that has been suggested on here before. 

 

That must really hurt as the owner. Throwing in shed loads of cash to see them sat doing nowt. And if they are successful you have to find 7.5m to fund loyalty bonuses. 

 

Are we in trouble. When it comes to P & S then it is difficult to argue that we must be right to the limit. It's and buts on what can be excluded but we spent 1.5m on the ground and that is in assets. 

 

Overall are we in trouble. Well as long as DC is prepared to keep lobbing in cash then no. Players on long contracts seems a pain but if FFP does bite we are not going to suffer unduly from a transfer embargo. Tbh with some of the crap bought not sure we should be too worried with the prospect. But to throw in a curveball everyone talks about shipping out players. Those loyalty and bonus payments and the weekly wage bill might explain why some might not be that keen to go unless a new club covers these off

 

Will DC keep funding us - well if he doesn't he risks the 100m plus put into date doesn't he. For now without promotion who the flip would take this on 

 

These numbers really do question the ticket price debate. As some of us have long argued when you are losing 20m and funding 20m the incremental potential revenue of this ticketing strategy barely touches the sides.

 

Could go on but if anyone has any questions on the figures will give it a go to answer it

[Wakefield owl]

15 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

Me too.

 

It just seems like he doesn't really know what he's doing.

 

The not selling players thing is bizarre too.

 

Main reason we have not sold players is because we ask for too much for them

[RUMBELOWS91]

23 minutes ago, markowl said:

You'll get your posts deleted next.

 

Unless you're sniping at the chairman or still discussing Carlos, then challenging the  whingers on here is frowned upon.

 

 

Stop whinging about the whingers....

 

(and round we go)

 

 

[vulva]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I think Fessi is seen as the single handed route to promotion

You don’t get promoted with players like FF. He’s the tidy bird in the nightclub with huge knockers and visible panty line. You’d take her home, have a few weeks at it, then move on. You need players who do it for 38/40 games a season, seasoned professionals who can see games out. Can’t stand Warnock, but he knows the recipe, especially on a budget.

 

Big keeper, 2 lumps at centre half, quick wide men and a couple of lumps upfront. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 minute ago, room0035 said:

I know but you have to sacrifice your talent sometimes to move forward as a club. Now instead of having a lose of say £10-12m and Fessi gone we are totally in the brown stuff and come next season will be under an embargo and better still the best young players we have seen for 15 years + may not even be at the club in Clare and Hirst.

 

 

Bet you can't wait for that day.  Be able to glory and bask in your self-righteous glow. 

[Ray Von shabba]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Ok what to say that this thread has not already said.

 

So I will try and comment on a few other points.

 

The strategic report at the start of the accounts suggests that the average attendance was 27k up from 22k. It confuses me why the turnover is only similar but I concur with others that the benefit of reaching the play off final the season before was significant. 

 

On the basis the TV and solidarity payments are I think 6m it shows to me that match day income is still only about 10m. A good chunk of that was multi year season ticket monies rolled forward. Of course the renewals this time last year are rolled into 17/18. 

 

The accounts show expenditure of 11m on transfer fees. What I would say here is that a lot of transfer fee agreements are paid in instalments. A figure that caught my eye was 4m shown as trade creditors due more than a year. I can only think it is transfer instalments as not sure what other supplier would be happy to wait more than 12 months to be paid.

 

The other stand out figure is 37m shareholder loan from DC an increase of 20m. Ok it is to DC not a bank or 3rd parties so much lower risk than the old days but it is now at a level equivalent to that era. 

 

Of course these accounts do not show what DC paid MM for the shares. Poster on here has that figure IIRC about 35m to 40m. Also the fact he has introduced funds allocated as share capital - think that is 8m or so now.

 

Add it up and factor in this year and he is in for over 100m easily now. That is a scary number for him. 

 

The wage costs are incredible. Ok it includes the Club employees not just players but we are talking 500k a week in wages. A figure that has been suggested on here before. 

 

That must really hurt as the owner. Throwing in shed loads of cash to see them sat doing nowt. And if they are successful you have to find 7.5m to fund loyalty bonuses. 

 

Are we in trouble. When it comes to P & S then it is difficult to argue that we must be right to the limit. It's and buts on what can be excluded but we spent 1.5m on the ground and that is in assets. 

 

Overall are we in trouble. Well as long as DC is prepared to keep lobbing in cash then no. Players on long contracts seems a pain but if FFP does bite we are not going to suffer unduly from a transfer embargo. Tbh with some of the crap bought not sure we should be too worried with the prospect. But to throw in a curveball everyone talks about shipping out players. Those loyalty and bonus payments and the weekly wage bill might explain why some might not be that keen to go unless a new club covers these off

 

Will DC keep funding us - well if he doesn't he risks the 100m plus put into date doesn't he. For now without promotion who the flip would take this on 

 

These numbers really do question the ticket price debate. As some of us have long argued when you are losing 20m and funding 20m the incremental potential revenue of this ticketing strategy barely touches the sides.

 

Could go on but if anyone has any questions on the figures will give it a go to answer it

WOW

[markowl]

1 minute ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

Stop whinging about the whingers....

 

(and round we go)

 

 

I didn't whinge, I asked a question.

 

No reply surprisingly...

[Mr Farrell]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Ok what to say that this thread has not already said.

 

So I will try and comment on a few other points.

 

The strategic report at the start of the accounts suggests that the average attendance was 27k up from 22k. It confuses me why the turnover is only similar but I concur with others that the benefit of reaching the play off final the season before was significant. 

 

On the basis the TV and solidarity payments are I think 6m it shows to me that match day income is still only about 10m. A good chunk of that was multi year season ticket monies rolled forward. Of course the renewals this time last year are rolled into 17/18. 

 

The accounts show expenditure of 11m on transfer fees. What I would say here is that a lot of transfer fee agreements are paid in instalments. A figure that caught my eye was 4m shown as trade creditors due more than a year. I can only think it is transfer instalments as not sure what other supplier would be happy to wait more than 12 months to be paid.

 

The other stand out figure is 37m shareholder loan from DC an increase of 20m. Ok it is to DC not a bank or 3rd parties so much lower risk than the old days but it is now at a level equivalent to that era. 

 

Of course these accounts do not show what DC paid MM for the shares. Poster on here has that figure IIRC about 35m to 40m. Also the fact he has introduced funds allocated as share capital - think that is 8m or so now.

 

Add it up and factor in this year and he is in for over 100m easily now. That is a scary number for him. 

 

The wage costs are incredible. Ok it includes the Club employees not just players but we are talking 500k a week in wages. A figure that has been suggested on here before. 

 

That must really hurt as the owner. Throwing in shed loads of cash to see them sat doing nowt. And if they are successful you have to find 7.5m to fund loyalty bonuses. 

 

Are we in trouble. When it comes to P & S then it is difficult to argue that we must be right to the limit. It's and buts on what can be excluded but we spent 1.5m on the ground and that is in assets. 

 

Overall are we in trouble. Well as long as DC is prepared to keep lobbing in cash then no. Players on long contracts seems a pain but if FFP does bite we are not going to suffer unduly from a transfer embargo. Tbh with some of the crap bought not sure we should be too worried with the prospect. But to throw in a curveball everyone talks about shipping out players. Those loyalty and bonus payments and the weekly wage bill might explain why some might not be that keen to go unless a new club covers these off

 

Will DC keep funding us - well if he doesn't he risks the 100m plus put into date doesn't he. For now without promotion who the flip would take this on 

 

These numbers really do question the ticket price debate. As some of us have long argued when you are losing 20m and funding 20m the incremental potential revenue of this ticketing strategy barely touches the sides.

 

Could go on but if anyone has any questions on the figures will give it a go to answer it

 

Thank you.

 

Hugely informative.

[vulva]

In terms of a solution, our Warnock could well be McCarthy. With a few quid, he would have Ipswich out of this league years ago. We need a proven method manager, and ideally one who can perform without a huge budget. Jos was a very cheap option, and he won’t be here next season. Very odd appointment, and one that stinks now of other people turning it down due to the finances.