@owlstalk Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, WayneTheOwl said: Genuine question not sure if it's already been asked as I got to about page 14 and was stumped. Would additional investment not balance the books at all? I'm thinking on the lines of Mr Chansiri asking his dad and chums to step on board, invest large sums of cash etc etc. Obviously I can't get hold of Mr C to suggest this to him but how does that kind of thing come under FFP rules etc. For me it would make no sense to ask for that money AFTER getting into the pickle when it could have been asked for before even becoming an issue Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneTheOwl Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, @owlstalk said: For me it would make no sense to ask for that money AFTER getting into the pickle when it could have been asked for before even becoming an issue The only sense would be to avoid FFP sanctions though? I remember reading something about the chairman of a club could only do so much in terms of sponsorship etc to offset against FFP so outside investment may be a different scenario. What are the sanctions a fine and 10 points deduction and some transfer embargo? Its not as though we need to sign anymore players having about 40 of them already and IF they were all fully fit then competing wouldn't be a problem. So many questions regarding all this type of stuff, everyone is just speculating. Bolton have been in the poo for years but somehow managed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Someone who actually knows something about finances give me a rundown now please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, mkowl said: I think it's mainly because we are spending 20m more than we earn Is that £20 note accounted for in the accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneTheOwl Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Mr Chansiri will have known about these figures a long long time ago as well. Would he really have sanctioned the signings we have made this season if each one of them would take us ever closer to FFP sanctions or even beyond them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) I'm probably missing something here but if we could sell... say Forestieri for £5m ( think this is very achievable) and reduce the wage bill by £90,000 pw (£4.68m per year), would that not fill the hole in the finances? Don't know wages but fair to estimate Forestieri is on at least £15,000. Heard reports that Winnall is on the same. If we get a fee for Winnall we might be more or less there already. Edited March 1, 2018 by i used to be sc_owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneTheOwl Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, i used to be sc_owl said: I'm probably missing something here but if we could sell... say Forestieri for £5m ( think this is very achievable and reduce the wage bill by £90,000 pw (£4.68m per year), would that not fill the hole in the finances? Don't know wages but fair to estimate Forestieri is on at least £15,000. Heard reports that Winnall is on the same. If we get a fee for Winnall we might be more or less there already. We would get 10m without fail for FF and he's on at least double the 15k!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, WayneTheOwl said: We would get 10m without fail for FF and he's on at least double the 15k!! So if that is the case, maybe the accounts aren't that bad? If losing one or two players can plug the gap, maybe we will not be seeing an exodus of quality players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, WayneTheOwl said: Mr Chansiri will have known about these figures a long long time ago as well. Would he really have sanctioned the signings we have made this season if each one of them would take us ever closer to FFP sanctions or even beyond them? It’s a balance. He still wanted promotion and relegation would be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, markowl said: I'm not angrymad. I'm trying to add some balance. For whatever reason it doesn't suit this site right now. Because nobody is sticking up for Chansiri and no-one has ever tried to silence the people who have questioned him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 3 hours ago, mkowl said: The strategic report at the start of the accounts suggests that the average attendance was 27k up from 22k. It confuses me why the turnover is only similar Could part of that also be because of the increased proportion of season ticket holders who pay far less per game than POTG fans. Therefore the increased attendance is not reflected in the revenue because the revenue per seat is much reduced due to the higher proportion of ST holders. The decision to pursue ST sales therefore potentially hits revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneTheOwl Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 38 minutes ago, i used to be sc_owl said: So if that is the case, maybe the accounts aren't that bad? If losing one or two players can plug the gap, maybe we will not be seeing an exodus of quality players. We could lose anyone of our players and replace them with another squad member and not miss them too much apart from FF in my opinion. It's a shame we have so many bang average players on big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 49 minutes ago, i used to be sc_owl said: I'm probably missing something here but if we could sell... say Forestieri for £5m ( think this is very achievable) and reduce the wage bill by £90,000 pw (£4.68m per year), would that not fill the hole in the finances? Don't know wages but fair to estimate Forestieri is on at least £15,000. Heard reports that Winnall is on the same. If we get a fee for Winnall we might be more or less there already. If accountancy losses roughly equate to FFP losses and this season’s loss equals last year’s we’ll have losses of about £42m from the last two years. That means to sneak under rolling FFP target of £39m over three years we’d have to make a £3m profit. That would be a turnaround from a £21m loss - so the savings/increased revenue we’d have to achieve would be £24m. That’s a huge turnaround in one year. Thats assuming that’s how FFP works if we drop into it. I haven’t read the stuff. The figures look daunting though - at least in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 8 hours ago, room0035 said: If the accounts are as bad as these are why did we not take the £15m Derby offered for Fessi, yes the fans would have been unhappy but when we are this much in the poo, that's £15m + the saving on his salary. This is the sort of thing being said when DC does not know what he is doing. You still have to run a club to either make a profit or cover your costs. Neither of which we are doing. Because they offered under half of that. basically DC has had a right good go, it hasn’t worked and now we need to start plan B. Like many clubs we are relying on the goodwill of our benefactor and owner. One point to note that I haven’t seen made. The impact of our spending will last for a couple more years, meaning that even if we do go up...we’ve pretty much spent all the additional proceeds already. A bit like when I start spending my bonus 3-months before it actually arrives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando_Trustful Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Not too worrying as others have suggested. We only owe it to DC and if we get promoted he is back in the big stuff. The big worry for me is the next few seasons. Our squad is over sized and over paid. That will take a year or two to change. I really don't expect us to be pushing for promotion for 18 - 24 months. That Huddersfield defeat will linger long in the memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynecoyne14 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 just scanned through quickly 12m negative net worth -technically insolvent 30m loss last 2 years so add this year say another 20m =50m therefore in breach of ffp loan from shareholder 38m maybe now 58m so at what point does Chansiri say fizz this for a game of soldiers? it wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to sell the club. so sell for 30m and write off his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 This can't have come as a shock, so we must have a plan right ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockieOwl Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Hitcat said: Relatively interesting from last year.... https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/football-finance-championship-club-by-club-2015-16 Puts things into perspective a bit that some of our rivals who have stayed in this division lost more than us last year. I don't know what they have done this year but Derby, Bristol City, Reading (£30m wages!) And Brentford all lost more in 15-16. So we are far from alone at being at risk of not meeting the criteria. On the face of it it does look bad. However are these just general accounts rather than the amount you can lose for FFP or P&S or whatever it's called? So money spent on the ground and training facilities etc will be included in these accounts but aren't included in the FFP calculations. That could easily be £5m over the last 2 years. Maybe more. Depends what is included in the FFP calculations. So that could leave us with at least a £15m loss for this year. Not ideal and looking like a challenge but far from conclusive that we will fall foul of the criteria. The club would have known about this for a while which is why we got club 1867 introduced etc. I have not been a fan of the pricing since it was introduced and far from a fan of the 1867 scheme but I don't think this is as concerning as a lot of people are making out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: This can't have come as a shock, so we must have a plan right ? Presumably the plan last summer when those in charge already knew these figures was to go for promotion again and cover the profit shortfall this season with their Club 1867 scheme... With the launch of up to 5 year season tickets the revised plan would seem to be to get some cash into the business as quickly as possible, presumably to at least minimise the amount of cash the owner has to keep chucking in between now and the summer when hopefully some of the players can be sold. Talk of going again is fantasy, this caper is over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Of course being a succesful businessman would have meant significant s enario planning before putting in nearly £40M which is now gonna be closer to £60M There are some good strategic Management Accountants and FDs out there. Be the next person I'd be hiring. Needs controls and strategic guidance. Either tht or cut the lsses and sell for what you can get. Pre-mortgaging STs a la Rangers only helps so much. Good job the debt is with the owner. There is the sort of help you need in the Wednesday community Mr Chansiri, at least listen to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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