S36 OWL Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, helmut_rooster said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Switching to 3-5-2 is a positive start. Carlos’ 4-4-2 wasn’t working and he failed to realise this or accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helmut_rooster Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, S36 OWL said: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimisticowl Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, zzmdu said: Seems to be a more experienced and better manager and it's early doors. He'll clearly sort out discipline & fitness problems out. However on the pitch; seems to be an identical manager to Carlos. :very organised :very defensive :very narrow :no attack plan An improvement on Carlos; the Owlstalk Resident Cheerleaders won't like this; but can't see any real difference on the pitch. You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 If we had played young centre halves under CC we would’ve got destroyed as would their confidence. JL has us much more organised and uses players who can actually screen the centre halves and prevent them being as exposed to runners. It looks to be a similar tight approach as CC had last season but the key positive differences are - less dogmatic, more pragmatic, picking a system to suit the tools rather than signing players with the same attributes as the last and trying to play them all together. - Ditching 442 as a means of fitting everyone in. - Sitting deeper but using pace and perhaps a bit more power in the team. - On the negative side our passing was much better under Carlos, but if that doesn’t get you in the right areas then it is just vanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: If we had played young centre halves under CC we would’ve got destroyed as would their confidence. JL has us much more organised and uses players who can actually screen the centre halves and prevent them being as exposed to runners. It looks to be a similar tight approach as CC had last season but the key positive differences are - less dogmatic, more pragmatic, picking a system to suit the tools rather than signing players with the same attributes as the last and trying to play them all together. - Ditching 442 as a means of fitting everyone in. - Sitting deeper but using pace and perhaps a bit more power in the team. - On the negative side our passing was much better under Carlos, but if that doesn’t get you in the right areas then it is just vanity. The passing under Carlos was always sideways and backwards , so ,as you say its pointless if its not penetrating the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, asteener1867 said: Give over.....You will be askin' for the shackles off in a fortnight How can you take the shackles off half a squad ? Carlos had 3 years and was clueless in terms of altering his approach, even with a full strength squad. Jos has this season and next season from me as a bare minimum. A lot of damage to be undone in terms of squad building and Doyen skanking. But you knew that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Just now, S36 OWL said: The passing under Carlos was always sideways and backwards , so ,as you say its pointless if its not penetrating the opposition. I think the idea originally was to control the game, you keep the ball and choose when you apply the pressure and take more risks. Then press when you lose it. I think when it worked it worked very well and looked great, even away at Fulham this season. But a mix of teams knowing what the plan was plus perhaps a few players losing confidence or discipline within the system just made it seem a bit redundant. You also need top quality players to keep that kind of game up, you can play our current system without having to worry about that as much IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage owl Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, zzmdu said: Said in the OP; that's it was a premature judgement. I hope we do purchase & play width and pace. Can't see it happening; but we'll see. Plenty of insults; but not much response to Jos playing with FIVE at the back. Fox & hunt playing deep. When it works properly the five at the back will become a three when we have the ball a revert to a five when the opposites have it. Great system played correctly can be very attacking let's see how it goes when he's had enough time to work on it eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Just now, Mr Farrell said: How can you take the shackles off half a squad ? Carlos had 3 years and was clueless in terms of altering his approach, even with a full strength squad. Jos has this season and next season from me as a bare minimum. A lot of damage to be undone in terms of squad building and Doyen skanking. But you knew that anyway. You can unshackle half the folk you have shackled...its like that "Release number..whateverthef.ook"..in Ben Hur Happy to help A season and a half? Fair enough mate...I would give a little longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc1349 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Look at me, I want you to look at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: I think the idea originally was to control the game, you keep the ball and choose when you apply the pressure and take more risks. Then press when you lose it. I think when it worked it worked very well and looked great, even away at Fulham this season. But a mix of teams knowing what the plan was plus perhaps a few players losing confidence or discipline within the system just made it seem a bit redundant. You also need top quality players to keep that kind of game up, you can play our current system without having to worry about that as much IMO Carlito wouldn't have played this 3-at-the-back system because he believed that our defenders weren't good enough to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryPlopper Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, optimisticowl said: You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. Mark Twain What position does he play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Past Member Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Just now, Athelwulf said: Carlito wouldn't have played this 3-at-the-back system because he believed that our defenders weren't good enough to play it. We played FIVE at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryPlopper Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Just now, zzmdu said: We played FIVE at the back. Argue with an idiot you become one yourself. So i'm out. Argue with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'd say he's done an exceptional job given the players at his disposal. Tough times are ahead whilst the likes of Hooper et al are still out but lets see what happens given that: - Youngsters now have an incentive to kick on and fight for a 1st team place (youth players coming through and being an asset would be a very big achievement!) - Fringe players are getting some decent game time - Our fitness will be sorted out - We actually have a structure and a coach that doesn't seem out of his depth I think we're in for an interesting time and Jos is the man that might not be an exceptionally attack minded coach, he'll tick the boxes for the football club to develop and take some decent steps in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, zzmdu said: Yes; if you were; what are your opinions on playing 5 at the back? Formation forced by injury or Jos's defensive style? Yes I was there. The formation was a bit more fluid than 5 at the back or 5-3-2. In possession it looked 3-5-2. Out of possession (which granted was some long periods due to Reading's policy of keeping the ball wherever possible) yes the wing backs dropped into the back line. Playing this way though did allow the central defenders to break out of defence with the ball. Example of this was Venancio's run and pass for Nuhiu's first goal. So I agree in part that Luhukay at first glance may look defensive in style but he stated he would first stabilise the defence which he has done. Forced by injury ? Almost certainly. Can you see a fully fit squad playing the same way, I doubt it. If he retains the same formation then surely Hunt and Reach will play as much more attacking wing backs. At the end of the day a clever manager adapts his style to suit not only the players at his disposal but also in the best way to counteract the opposition. Luhukay at the moment has done just that, and is getting more out of the players available than his predecessor. Long time since we saw 3 goals in the right end of Hillsborough. DON KNOCK IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: If we had played young centre halves under CC we would’ve got destroyed as would their confidence. JL has us much more organised and uses players who can actually screen the centre halves and prevent them being as exposed to runners. It looks to be a similar tight approach as CC had last season but the key positive differences are - less dogmatic, more pragmatic, picking a system to suit the tools rather than signing players with the same attributes as the last and trying to play them all together. - Ditching 442 as a means of fitting everyone in. - Sitting deeper but using pace and perhaps a bit more power in the team. - On the negative side our passing was much better under Carlos, but if that doesn’t get you in the right areas then it is just vanity. Whenever I used to say it, many on this site refuted it, but I've always believed that in Carlos we had an attack-minded manager trying to play defensively. He once said he'd rather win 10-9 than 1-0, and I think we saw the real Carlos in that first season. But pressure forced him to change his ways. It strikes me that Jos is a proper defensive manager, judging by his organization of the defence and his daring to go three at the back with players which Carlos wouldn't have deemed good enough to play that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Athelwulf said: Carlito wouldn't have played this 3-at-the-back system because he believed that our defenders weren't good enough to play it. In terms of keeping the ball he was right and I was worried about it too as under CCs way of thinking they’d be really exposed like forest at Hillsborough but by tightening up it works ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, zzmdu said: We played FIVE at the back. I meant 3 centre halves at the back when we attack, 5 in defence when we defend. Carlos stuck to 4-4-2 because in his words you need top defenders to play this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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