@owlstalk Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, NorfolkNChance said: Good to see one side of the story come out. The other side may never be known other than those dropping subtle hints that they know something but won’t say because it’s a big secret. Don't think that would be a 'big secret' Surely it would just be contractual information that isn't supposed to be public knowledge? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, cowl said: Timeline: August 5th - Hirst last plays for Wednesday in an U23 friendly against Scarborough Athletic. August 14th - Hirst unselected for U23 opener against Cardiff August 21st - Hirst unselected for U23 game against Charlton August 21st or before August 29th - Hirst unselected for U23 game against Millwall 'Just before the closure of the transfer window' circa August 31st - A bid for Hirst came in from a Premier League club 'A couple of hours later' - Club informed: "George Hirst will not be signing a new deal" September 1st - Hirst represents England U19s against Poland (scores hat-trick). Since - Hirst hasn't played for the club at any level. To continue to overlook this sequence of events as though it's not even worthy of consideration is to be wilfully ignorant. Perhaps people expect a deductive argument here, presenting a body of facts from which a conclusion can be deduced. That's just fanciful and unrealistic. The best that can be done is to try to persuade through a mixture of facts, likelihoods, and reasoning - maybe even some rhetoric. Maybe your audience will be willing to consider, maybe not. I don't think it's likely that @KivoOwl took a lucky guess that Hirst wasn't allowed to play anymore because he'd not signed a contract, only for this to later coincidentally turn out to be true. If you think it's more likely than not that it was a lucky guess, then fine. I don't think Hirst not appearing in any Wednesday U23 game after August 5th can be explained as him being injured, just not selected, or because he was training (for two weeks by himself) with England. If you think it's more likely than not that his absence is explained by these things, then fine. You think there's nothing to see here, fine. Personally, it seems to me that Hirst had been told sometime between August 5th and August 14th (or at least by August 21st) that since he's not signing his contract, he can no longer play for any of our teams or go out on loan. In DC's own statement, it describes the bid coming in from a Premier League club as taking place 'just before the closure of the transfer window (Aug 31st), and that 'a couple of hours later' the club was informed that "George Hirst will not be signing a new deal". I'm taking those events to be no more than a few days before August 31st because that's what I'm taking "just before the closure of the transfer window" to mean - besides August 30th was when the Leicester bid was reported in the newspapers. Nothing to see? Or a little fishy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Kidneys Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: I really don't get this obsession with his surname It means zero to me All I see in George Hirst is a striker who's been smashing a ridiculous amount of goals in for club and country So why not advocate we pay all the academy lads 'properly' then? You also didn't reply what figure you have in mind for properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNChance Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Don't think that would be a 'big secret' Surely it would just be contractual information that isn't supposed to be public knowledge? Well yeah but contracts, like NDA’s, quite frankly mean sod all these days as most people can’t hold their water nevermind info like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slow83 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 This doesn’t convince me at all. Really badly managed and reminds me of the club 20 years ago in the Carbone and Di Canio era as we began to self implode through poor off field management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F. Spiksley Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Modern football eh? Not the only club subject to the influence of agents. Today's news, tomorrow's fish and chip wrapping. 1867?? I think the club will survive this episode. All in all, a great shame but not a surprise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, slow83 said: This doesn’t convince me at all. Really badly managed and reminds me of the club 20 years ago in the Carbone and Di Canio era as we began to self implode through poor off field management. What bit doesn't convince you and what are your counter arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Kidneys Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, @owlstalk said: See this is why I'm annoyed that there's only one side to the story that's been published. This kind of comment above (And much worse) is being spouted all over social media tonight towards Sheffield Wednesday all time legend David Hirst What a mess But you said it was nothing to do with the surname? Make ya mind up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I've heard from more than one source that George has refused to play for the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, mattitheowl said: Only problem for GH in that is that his "potential" would be outed. As it stands he holds all the cards. He can open a bidding war with 3-4 teams after him and get a contract that will set him up for life (3 years at £10k+ a week, signing on fee etc. should set anyone up for life if they aren't stupid. If he signs with us and goes to Rotherham and isn't the bees knees he's in bother. A season with a struggling league 1 outfit, not many goals and he comes back here with his potential in tatters. He then has 2 years (for example) on a big contract where we have to try and ship him out on loan to teams who aren't willing to pay his silly wages so he ends up stuck in our U23's until he gets released aged 20/21. He could demand a £1m signing on fee with another club (if it's a Premiership team that's nothing) and that's that. He never even has to play football ever again. Thats a sad indictment of the mentality of young footballers then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slow83 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Watson said: What bit doesn't convince you and what are your counter arguments? That the club has managed this badly, and that doesn’t bode well for us. Therefore I am not convinced that we are being managed properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastleigh Owl Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Anyway - I'm off to the loo as I've had a massive kebab and can of coke and need a massive poo That's actually genuinely fact but I'm not going to post the evidence Hold on, I thought you'd just re-heated a big all on pizza? Or did I dream that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Kidneys Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said: The big difference being that other clubs aren’t queueing up to offer Wildsmith & Dawson £10K. They are Hirst. So you're pretty much confirming that that's what a premier league club would pay him and that's what he wants from us then to stay? 18yrs old and wanting half a million quid a year on a 4 year contract probably without proving anything at league football level. Chansiri did the right thing if that's what he's after. Let him go get it elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, slow83 said: That the club has managed this badly, and that doesn’t bode well for us. Therefore I am not convinced that we are being managed properly. Why have they managed it badly? Stop asserting and give your reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashamanic Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Unreasonable base salary and unreasonable bonuses? it would be interesting if they came out and said what was being asked, but it isn’t in either party’s interests. Bonus for first team appearances and goals seems pretty reasonable, and only likely to apply if he makes it, so pro a Lu not that, but maybe they were wanting a bound for England call ups/appearances/goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, cowl said: Timeline: August 5th - Hirst last plays for Wednesday in an U23 friendly against Scarborough Athletic. August 14th - Hirst unselected for U23 opener against Cardiff August 21st - Hirst unselected for U23 game against Charlton August 21st or before August 29th - Hirst unselected for U23 game against Millwall 'Just before the closure of the transfer window' circa August 31st - A bid for Hirst came in from a Premier League club 'A couple of hours later' - Club informed: "George Hirst will not be signing a new deal" September 1st - Hirst represents England U19s against Poland (scores hat-trick). Since - Hirst hasn't played for the club at any level. To continue to overlook this sequence of events as though it's not even worthy of consideration is to be wilfully ignorant. Perhaps people expect a deductive argument here, presenting a body of facts from which a conclusion can be deduced. That's just fanciful and unrealistic. The best that can be done is to try to persuade through a mixture of facts, likelihoods, and reasoning - maybe even some rhetoric. Maybe your audience will be willing to consider, maybe not. I don't think it's likely that @KivoOwl took a lucky guess that Hirst wasn't allowed to play anymore because he'd not signed a contract, only for this to later coincidentally turn out to be true. If you think it's more likely than not that it was a lucky guess, then fine. I don't think Hirst not appearing in any Wednesday U23 game after August 5th can be explained as him being injured, just not selected, or because he was training (for two weeks by himself) with England. If you think it's more likely than not that his absence is explained by these things, then fine. You think there's nothing to see here, fine. Personally, it seems to me that Hirst had been told sometime between August 5th and August 14th (or at least by August 21st) that since he's not signing his contract, he can no longer play for any of our teams or go out on loan. In DC's own statement, it describes the bid coming in from a Premier League club as taking place 'just before the closure of the transfer window (Aug 31st), and that 'a couple of hours later' the club was informed that "George Hirst will not be signing a new deal". I'm taking those events to be no more than a few days before August 31st because that's what I'm taking "just before the closure of the transfer window" to mean - besides August 30th was when the Leicester bid was reported in the newspapers. I don't discount the sequence of events and thank you (genuinely) for the timeline. It may indeed well be that GH was omitted from selection for those two games because of the acrimonious state of the negotiations. Simply assuming it was a sign or don't play ultimatum is just that.... assumption; however strongly you personally feel about it (your prerogative). Most probably the final and more permanent nail being driven after the complete breakdown of negotiations. I still have no problem in the clubs actions based on what I've heard personally and read . Edited December 4, 2017 by Xxxxxxxxcxcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reallondonowl Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 7 hours ago, @owlstalk said: What if they weren't berating the club but instead have the story from the other side that might show the club differently to Mr Chansiri's explanation? Speaking words of wisdom...let it be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, slow83 said: That the club has managed this badly, and that doesn’t bode well for us. Therefore I am not convinced that we are being managed properly. Some on here are convinced the earth is flat the evidence suggests otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Doyen Global is Hirst's agent. Doyen Sports have runnings in the club and where Carlos came from. Both separate companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reallondonowl Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, darra said: Some on here are convinced the earth is flat the evidence suggests otherwise The “evidence” is from one side. Typically you hear evidence from both sides before formulating a judgement in the UK at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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