Carlos vs Stuart Gray

[Beauchief Owl]

Had Gray stayed we might well have gone through with the Vardy transfer for £5 million. If only!

[room0035]

43 minutes ago, Quist said:

Stuart Gray was excellent coach did a remarkable job in circumstances. In last year we sold Antonio and brought in Stevie May so had effectively negative transfer budget. he also brought in a better quality of players has had better contacts in game. When roeder cam in the rubbish followed. Unfortunately neither Roeder or CC had been in regular employment prior to appointment and their out of touch with current events has shown in signings. CC has also got problem of not understanding English gameand inability to learn.

Stuart Gray had to sell players because his Chairman Milan told him too, we were not playing Antonio so he moved to Forest, Stevy May was the gambles Gray had to take to take a rough diamond and try and make a player of him. The same thing he did with an injury prone player with a dodgy knee but that one worked out for us, Stevy May didn't

 

Gray work in the transfer market and especially in the loan market was unbelievable with the budget he worked with compare to the dross Carlos has brought in Benik Afobe - i seem to remember this guy signing for someone for £10m, Connor Wickham, Sam Hutchinson, Royston Drenthe, Lewis Baker, Lewis McGugan.

 

then compare these to Carlos's loan signing Lopez, Mcmanaman, Buckley, Venancio, McGeady.

 

Then look at our current team, half of the players Stuart signed or gave a first team chance in Palmer, Westwood, Lees, Loovens, Lee, Hutch, Nuihu. 

 

Tell me how with any money to spend or a chairman who supported him in the transfer market would Stuart Gray not have made us eventually a Premier League team all be it not the buccaneer team we had first season under Carlos. But Stuart i believe would have built a team that lasted as opposed to Carlos's that is self imploding.

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

I was sorry that DC didn't give Gray a go with a decent budget after what he did clearing up the absolute shambles that he inherited 

[Quist]

29 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Stuart Gray had to sell players because his Chairman Milan told him too, we were not playing Antonio so he moved to Forest, Stevy May was the gambles Gray had to take to take a rough diamond and try and make a player of him. The same thing he did with an injury prone player with a dodgy knee but that one worked out for us, Stevy May didn't

 

Gray work in the transfer market and especially in the loan market was unbelievable with the budget he worked with compare to the dross Carlos has brought in Benik Afobe - i seem to remember this guy signing for someone for £10m, Connor Wickham, Sam Hutchinson, Royston Drenthe, Lewis Baker, Lewis McGugan.

 

then compare these to Carlos's loan signing Lopez, Mcmanaman, Buckley, Venancio, McGeady.

 

Then look at our current team, half of the players Stuart signed or gave a first team chance in Palmer, Westwood, Lees, Loovens, Lee, Hutch, Nuihu. 

 

Tell me how with any money to spend or a chairman who supported him in the transfer market would Stuart Gray not have made us eventually a Premier League team all be it not the buccaneer team we had first season under Carlos. But Stuart i believe would have built a team that lasted as opposed to Carlos's that is self imploding.

This is all spot on.He knows British game and players available.

[OWLERTON GHOST]

So there you have it in a nutshell lads 

[prowl]

I'd still give Gray a chance if Carlos went. I don't think there's a cat in hells chance it would happen because Gray would want toomuch control over signings

[Stoop]

Carlos is still using half of Stuart Gray’s team

[OWLERTON GHOST]

1 hour ago, flo said:

2015 16 - 1.43 goals per game

2016 17 - 1.30 gpg

17 18 - 1.27 gpg

"It's getting better all the time"

Let's buy Carlos "7 Sheds" as a leaving present 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

1 hour ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

So there you have it in a nutshell lads 

As such 

[debram]

3 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

Well I find myself of a Friday afternoon with a bottle of beer in hand and I discover that the Ipswich result marks Carlos Carvalhal's 110th league game in charge of the Owls. I figure given the roundish number of the occasion, coupled with the perceived negative forward play, it's about time to have a look at compare CC with another perceived connoisseur of "defense first" football, Stuart Gray.  

 

In Stu's 67 games in charge of us as full-time manager, we managed 74 goals. That's an average of 1.10 goals per game. 

In Carlos' 110 league games in charge of us, we've managed 149 goals. That's an average of 1.35 goals per game

 

Gray's somewhat measly contribution to an attacking game came with an attacking core of Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu, Chris Maguire etc and resulted in us being a solid Championship side- all on a relatively shoestring budget 

Now consider the expenditure that we have spent on attacking players. Forestieri, Rhodes, Hooper, Joao, Winnall, Fletcher... all personnel we wouldn't have dreamed of seeing in Wednesday colours with Gray in charge. And for what? An extra goal every four games. 

 

Gray got sacked for perceived lack of attacking play, and 1.1 gpg is an extremely justified reason to let a manager go, wish them all the best and look for a replacement that's a bit more exciting. But I cannot believe the seeming lack of accountability for what has been one gigantic rooster up when it comes to seeing attacking play, all while having personnel that should be more than capable of scoring goals to a greater extent than Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu etc. 

 

I mean consider it... only one more goal every four games. If I make the hypothetical proposition that Stuart Gray had been able to make the same signings CC has- Reach, Fox, Hunt, Bannan, Wallace etc but had kept the same front line (Bus, Keane, Nuhiu, May etc.)- we wouldn't be scoring a similar number of goals? Because I'm struggling to say that that's not a reasonable suggestion. And I think that says a lot about our style of play.

 

Stuart Gray was sacked for not being attacking. For some reason it's a different story for CC. 

Its a sad situation, something between cc and dc that we dont know of

[Steelman]

3 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

Well I find myself of a Friday afternoon with a bottle of beer in hand and I discover that the Ipswich result marks Carlos Carvalhal's 110th league game in charge of the Owls. I figure given the roundish number of the occasion, coupled with the perceived negative forward play, it's about time to have a look at compare CC with another perceived connoisseur of "defense first" football, Stuart Gray.  

 

In Stu's 67 games in charge of us as full-time manager, we managed 74 goals. That's an average of 1.10 goals per game. 

In Carlos' 110 league games in charge of us, we've managed 149 goals. That's an average of 1.35 goals per game

 

Gray's somewhat measly contribution to an attacking game came with an attacking core of Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu, Chris Maguire etc and resulted in us being a solid Championship side- all on a relatively shoestring budget 

Now consider the expenditure that we have spent on attacking players. Forestieri, Rhodes, Hooper, Joao, Winnall, Fletcher... all personnel we wouldn't have dreamed of seeing in Wednesday colours with Gray in charge. And for what? An extra goal every four games. 

 

Gray got sacked for perceived lack of attacking play, and 1.1 gpg is an extremely justified reason to let a manager go, wish them all the best and look for a replacement that's a bit more exciting. But I cannot believe the seeming lack of accountability for what has been one gigantic rooster up when it comes to seeing attacking play, all while having personnel that should be more than capable of scoring goals to a greater extent than Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu etc. 

 

I mean consider it... only one more goal every four games. If I make the hypothetical proposition that Stuart Gray had been able to make the same signings CC has- Reach, Fox, Hunt, Bannan, Wallace etc but had kept the same front line (Bus, Keane, Nuhiu, May etc.)- we wouldn't be scoring a similar number of goals? Because I'm struggling to say that that's not a reasonable suggestion. And I think that says a lot about our style of play.

 

Stuart Gray was sacked for not being attacking. For some reason it's a different story for CC. 

The decision to dispense with Stuart Gray's services was a disgrace. It's his astute signings that still form the spine of this side. He signed Westwood, Lees, Lee, etc. on a shoestring and they still form the backbone of this side. 

 

If it wasn't for Stuart Gray's signings Carlos would have finished nowhere. I would have loved to see what Stuart Gray would have acieved with Chansiri's millions. I've no doubt that Gray would have got us promoted with half the money Carlos has jizzed up the wall.

[Steelman]

11 minutes ago, debram said:

Its a sad situation, something between cc and dc that we dont know of

It's obvious really......

 

Carlos is a yes man who does exactly what Chansiri tells him.

[debram]

2 minutes ago, OneDavidHirst said:

The decision to dispense with Stuart Gray's services was a disgrace. It's his astute signings that still form the spine of this side. He signed Westwood, Lees, Lee, etc. on a shoestring and they still form the backbone of this side. 

 

If it wasn't for Stuart Gray's signings Carlos would have finished nowhere. I would have loved to see what Stuart Gray would have acieved with Chansiri's millions. I've no doubt that Gray would have got us promoted with half the money Carlos has jizzed up the wall.

cant argue with that given the current state of affairs

[debram]

2 minutes ago, OneDavidHirst said:

It's obvious really......

 

Carlos is a yes man who does exactly what Chansiri tells him.

hes making a good living from doing just that

[matthefish2002]

All things considered Gray did a better job at Wednesday then CC has.

Gray type of quiet, non showy bloke with modest player record that is not sexy enough for modern chairmen and supporters to stick by for too long.

 

Cant remember him making excuses every week about refs and fixture congestion to diguise bad performances.

[StudentOwl]

1 minute ago, matthefish2002 said:

All things considered Gray did a better job at Wednesday then CC has.

Gray type of quiet, non showy bloke with modest player record that is not sexy enough for modern chairmen and supporters to stick by for too long.

 

Cant remember him making excuses every week about refs and fixture congestion to diguise bad performances.

At the very least with a Stuart Gray side you would get a solid, consistent, honest hardworking performance every week from every man on the pitch. 

 

It's hard to say we get that very often these days

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

"He sold Antonio and bought Stevie May...."

Apart from that, i have some sympathy

[Pale Rider]

One positive memory I have of this period is Palmer, Lee and Maguire playing some neat triangles down the right. Having witnessed a chuckle vision to me to you with no end product that invariably hits the first man or sails way beyond the 18 yard box for almost the entire season so far. Perhaps we should try Palmer and Lee in tandem.

[SiJ]

Tbf the general mood on here towards the end of Gray’s time was pretty similar to what it is now for Carlos. 

 

I did like Gray though. Thought he did a really good job considering the circumstances and certainly could spot a player. 

 

Not sure whether we’d have got promoted under him or anything like that (great coaching CV. So-so managerial record) but it’s all hypothetical. 

 

Think the main takeaway atm is we’ve spent millions of pounds to replicate a similar passive, negative style that marked the end of Gray’s time and dare I say it is 

isn’t far off some of the dross served up by Irvine. 

 

[steveger]

Gray was old tight arse Milans cheapest option, make no mistake about it, as such, but to be fair to  he didn't do too bad, but he should have never been given the job.

Edited November 24, 2017 by steveger