Carlos vs Stuart Gray

[Owl999]

14 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

Well I find myself of a Friday afternoon with a bottle of beer in hand and I discover that the Ipswich result marks Carlos Carvalhal's 110th league game in charge of the Owls. I figure given the roundish number of the occasion, coupled with the perceived negative forward play, it's about time to have a look at compare CC with another perceived connoisseur of "defense first" football, Stuart Gray.  

 

In Stu's 67 games in charge of us as full-time manager, we managed 74 goals. That's an average of 1.10 goals per game. 

In Carlos' 110 league games in charge of us, we've managed 149 goals. That's an average of 1.35 goals per game

 

Gray's somewhat measly contribution to an attacking game came with an attacking core of Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu, Chris Maguire etc and resulted in us being a solid Championship side- all on a relatively shoestring budget 

Now consider the expenditure that we have spent on attacking players. Forestieri, Rhodes, Hooper, Joao, Winnall, Fletcher... all personnel we wouldn't have dreamed of seeing in Wednesday colours with Gray in charge. And for what? An extra goal every four games. 

 

Gray got sacked for perceived lack of attacking play, and 1.1 gpg is an extremely justified reason to let a manager go, wish them all the best and look for a replacement that's a bit more exciting. But I cannot believe the seeming lack of accountability for what has been one gigantic rooster up when it comes to seeing attacking play, all while having personnel that should be more than capable of scoring goals to a greater extent than Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu etc. 

 

I mean consider it... only one more goal every four games. If I make the hypothetical proposition that Stuart Gray had been able to make the same signings CC has- Reach, Fox, Hunt, Bannan, Wallace etc but had kept the same front line (Bus, Keane, Nuhiu, May etc.)- we wouldn't be scoring a similar number of goals? Because I'm struggling to say that that's not a reasonable suggestion. And I think that says a lot about our style of play.

 

Stuart Gray was sacked for not being attacking. For some reason it's a different story for CC. 

Stuart Gray wasn't sacked over his football, he wasn't a "yes man" to Mr Chansiri and had differing opinions on the signing of players.

[Almat]

14 hours ago, ramone said:

I loved Stuart Gray. An absolute  gentleman. Don’t believe the ‘he was sacked because we want attacking football’. Surely we’re not all that naive. He was sacked because DC wanted his own man

 

I'm sure I read on here that DC wanted a Portugese coach, bizarrely. Well, he got one alright. Question is would he have another? 

 

Another question has to be; Why this Portugese coach? If I knew I was going to be in a project for 150 million I genuinely would have read the CV and put the application in the rejected pile.

 

Seriously, who on here had genuinely heard of him? 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Almat

[BIG D]

14 hours ago, room0035 said:

Stuart Gray had to sell players because his Chairman Milan told him too, we were not playing Antonio so he moved to Forest, Stevy May was the gambles Gray had to take to take a rough diamond and try and make a player of him. The same thing he did with an injury prone player with a dodgy knee but that one worked out for us, Stevy May didn't

 

Gray work in the transfer market and especially in the loan market was unbelievable with the budget he worked with compare to the dross Carlos has brought in Benik Afobe - i seem to remember this guy signing for someone for £10m, Connor Wickham, Sam Hutchinson, Royston Drenthe, Lewis Baker, Lewis McGugan.

 

 

I’ll give you Connor, Hutch and McGugan but Afobe, Drenthe and Baker?

 

 

[james o connor]

In hindsight I was too critical of gray, so,etching I’ve come to realise . Honest coach who did a decent job on a shoe string . Would do a hell of a lot better the clueless with our current budget 

[BIG D]

What’s happening at Fulham then?

they're below us with a better squad, better nmanager and better coach. 

[Holmowl]

16 hours ago, Carl Shutt is God said:

It would be more interesting to look at the stats for Carlos's 1st season goals to game ratio vs the and last season's. I can only imagine there would be a huge diffefence.

 

First season - 1.41 gpg

 

Last season - 1.27 gpg

 

This season - 1.39 gpg

 

 

[upperwinngardensowl]

Apologies if someone else has said it but don’t forget what the pitch was 

ike under Gray.

every week opposition managers would say “you can’t play football on that!”.

he had to make the best of a bad job and he did.

the one good thing that Chansiri has done is the pitch, and all it’s used for now is ensuring sideways and backwards passes are true.

[StudentOwl]

3 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

First season - 1.41 gpg

 

Last season - 1.27 gpg

 

This season - 1.39 gpg

 

 

Don't know how you got these, both me and Flo got:

1st: 1.43

2nd: 1.30

3rd: 1.27 (Flo got 1.28 but that's because they can't round numbers correctly )

 

Are you doing league matches only from the 46 game season? 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by StudentOwl

[Holmowl]

3 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Don't know how you got these, both me and Flo got:

1st: 1.43

2nd: 1.30

3rd: 1.27 (Flo got 1.28 but that's because they can't round numbers correctly )

 

Are you doing league matches only from the 46 game season? 

 

 

Sorry I didn’t read beyond CarlShutt’s post so didn’t see yours and flos.

 

I did this

 

15/16 69 goals 49 games

 

16/17 61 goals 48 games

 

17/18 25 goals 18 games

[Holmowl]

5 minutes ago, upperwinngardensowl said:

Apologies if someone else has said it but don’t forget what the pitch was 

ike under Gray.

every week opposition managers would say “you can’t play football on that!”.

he had to make the best of a bad job and he did.

the one good thing that Chansiri has done is the pitch, and all it’s used for now is ensuring sideways and backwards passes are true.

 

Thats a very good point. 

[StudentOwl]

5 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Sorry I didn’t read beyond CarlShutt’s post so didn’t see yours and flos.

 

I did this

 

15/16 69 goals 49 games

 

16/17 61 goals 48 games

 

17/18 25 goals 18 games

That'll be why then

... though I'm not sure where you get an extra two goals this season. The league table says we've scored 23 in 18 games. I admire your optimism though

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by StudentOwl

[A E Neuman NYowl]

1 hour ago, Almat said:

 

I'm sure I read on here that DC wanted a Portugese coach, bizarrely. Well, he got one alright. Question is would he have another? 

 

Another question has to be; Why this Portugese coach? If I knew I was going to be in a project for 150 million I genuinely would have read the CV and put the application in the rejected pile.

 

Seriously, who on here had genuinely heard of him? 

Take a look at the links between Doyen sports and Portuguese football to the connection.

[shezzas left peg]

I'd have Stuart over Carlos every day, hardly put a foot wrong in the tansfer market. We were solid, organised, played with a passion and togetherness that has been eroded under Carlos. When SG was here we were a TEAM it was the old musketeer saying of all for one and one for all. Almost every game playing better teams and with consistently. Most weeks it was like a re run of the alamo Westwood saves, goal line blocks, people giving 110% throwing bodies in the way. OK it was not great going forward, but some of that last ditch  defence to hold out was utterly edge of the seat heart attack material as the opposition bombarded our goal. 

This for me is THE stand out difference to what we have now we've gone from a small squad with cohesion and teamwork, to an over inflated squad on big wages creating rifts and jealousy favourites and people cast out into the wilderness of the game, under achievement and under performance. Carlos season one success was on the back of what SG had created, and by season 3 that energy and togetherness has been lost like a sunken ship. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by shezzas left peg

[Holmowl]

17 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

That'll be why then

... though I'm not sure where you get an extra two goals this season. The league table says we've scored 23 in 18 games. I admire your optimism though

 

Oops

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

1 hour ago, upperwinngardensowl said:

Apologies if someone else has said it but don’t forget what the pitch was 

ike under Gray.

every week opposition managers would say “you can’t play football on that!”.

he had to make the best of a bad job and he did.

the one good thing that Chansiri has done is the pitch, and all it’s used for now is ensuring sideways and backwards passes are true.

Good point re. the pitch. Well remembered.

[BDM4nil]

I liked SG and thought he did a very good job in his given circumstances and thought his sacking was harsh at the time.

 

CC in fairness came in and exceeded all expectations in his first season and things were looking great.

 

Despite Wednesday finishing higher in the league in his 2nd season, the football was nowhere near as enjoyable to watch. I can't understand why really, other than sides had started setting up more defensively against us.

 

It would then be CC's job to find a successful  way around this and  whilst still providing enjoyable football it would be fair to say and as pledged from CC and DC.

 

This problem may clearly be at the route of some concerns as seen from that point onwards really, in my opinion.

 

Things have stagnated / got worse since I believe and also against a backdrop of heightened expectations and significant added costs to fans - hence the buzz from CC's first season, having long gone now and seemingly with the style of play that season.

 

To note though CC doesn't set our match day pricing - over to DC on that one. Are we getting value for money at thou time ?

 

CC needs to turn things around sharpish now and I obviously hope he does - if not though, I think we should thank CC for his efforts and service and look elsewhere - just like we did with SG.

 

A good win today would be a great start.

 

UTO