Carlos vs Stuart Gray

[StudentOwl]

Well I find myself of a Friday afternoon with a bottle of beer in hand and I discover that the Ipswich result marks Carlos Carvalhal's 110th league game in charge of the Owls. I figure given the roundish number of the occasion, coupled with the perceived negative forward play, it's about time to have a look at compare CC with another perceived connoisseur of "defense first" football, Stuart Gray.  

 

In Stu's 67 games in charge of us as full-time manager, we managed 74 goals. That's an average of 1.10 goals per game. 

In Carlos' 110 league games in charge of us, we've managed 149 goals. That's an average of 1.35 goals per game

 

Gray's somewhat measly contribution to an attacking game came with an attacking core of Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu, Chris Maguire etc and resulted in us being a solid Championship side- all on a relatively shoestring budget 

Now consider the expenditure that we have spent on attacking players. Forestieri, Rhodes, Hooper, Joao, Winnall, Fletcher... all personnel we wouldn't have dreamed of seeing in Wednesday colours with Gray in charge. And for what? An extra goal every four games. 

 

Gray got sacked for perceived lack of attacking play, and 1.1 gpg is an extremely justified reason to let a manager go, wish them all the best and look for a replacement that's a bit more exciting. But I cannot believe the seeming lack of accountability for what has been one gigantic rooster up when it comes to seeing attacking play, all while having personnel that should be more than capable of scoring goals to a greater extent than Stevie May, Atdhe Nuhiu etc. 

 

I mean consider it... only one more goal every four games. If I make the hypothetical proposition that Stuart Gray had been able to make the same signings CC has- Reach, Fox, Hunt, Bannan, Wallace etc but had kept the same front line (Bus, Keane, Nuhiu, May etc.)- we wouldn't be scoring a similar number of goals? Because I'm struggling to say that that's not a reasonable suggestion. And I think that says a lot about our style of play.

 

Stuart Gray was sacked for not being attacking. For some reason it's a different story for CC. 

[asteener1867]

0-0 draw I reckon.....................

[Quist]

Stuart Gray was excellent coach did a remarkable job in circumstances. In last year we sold Antonio and brought in Stevie May so had effectively negative transfer budget. he also brought in a better quality of players has had better contacts in game. When roeder cam in the rubbish followed. Unfortunately neither Roeder or CC had been in regular employment prior to appointment and their out of touch with current events has shown in signings. CC has also got problem of not understanding English gameand inability to learn.

[Guest Maxine]

We have been discussing this at work this afternoon also.  I'd have loved Stuart Gray to have had a chance with money who knows. 

[Hookowl]

4 minutes ago, Quist said:

Stuart Gray was excellent coach did a remarkable job in circumstances. In last year we sold Antonio and brought in Stevie May so had effectively negative transfer budget. he also brought in a better quality of players has had better contacts in game. When roeder cam in the rubbish followed. Unfortunately neither Roeder or CC had been in regular employment prior to appointment and their out of touch with current events has shown in signings. CC has also got problem of not understanding English gameand inability to learn.

 

Apart from the bit I've highlighted I agree Gray did a good job under the circumstances 

[ramone]

I loved Stuart Gray. An absolute  gentleman. Don’t believe the ‘he was sacked because we want attacking football’. Surely we’re not all that naive. He was sacked because DC wanted his own man

[Carl Shutt is God]

It would be more interesting to look at the stats for Carlos's 1st season goals to game ratio vs the and last season's. I can only imagine there would be a huge diffefence.

[Quist]

2 minutes ago, Hookowl said:

 

Apart from the bit I've highlighted I agree Gray did a good job under the circumstances 

Agreed was his one really poor signing.

[ramone]

9 minutes ago, Quist said:

Stuart Gray was excellent coach did a remarkable job in circumstances. In last year we sold Antonio and brought in Stevie May so had effectively negative transfer budget. he also brought in a better quality of players has had better contacts in game. When roeder cam in the rubbish followed. Unfortunately neither Roeder or CC had been in regular employment prior to appointment and their out of touch with current events has shown in signings. CC has also got problem of not understanding English gameand inability to learn.

Roeder and CC’s first lot of signings were superb and got us to the play off final. Literally everything you have said in this post is nonsense 

[asteener1867]

1 minute ago, ramone said:

I loved Stuart Gray. An absolute  gentleman. Don’t believe the ‘he was sacked because we want attacking football’. Surely we’re not all that naive. He was sacked because DC wanted his own man

Beats me how DC knew who "His own man" was...."I know little of football"... and picking your.. "Own man".. don't go hand in hand .

I though Gray deserved a bash, but TBH  I totally forgot about him on the way to wembley....Same as Megson, all f.ookin' apalled when he got sacked...dancing on the pitch a few weeks later...Its football, its hindsight, it serves no useful purpose...bar chattin' "what ifs"

[tarn owl]

I really liked Gray, shame never got a chance with the money. I think he would have got more out of some players and not signed others. But we'll never know and he isn't coming back, I do still think Carlos with a coach like Gray at the side of him contributing could work out. Either a new assistant manager or a director of football could help Carlos like Gray helped Jones when he came in. Might be an option if Chansiri wants to be loyal to Carlos but get a fresh pair of eyes on the squad as well.

[Quist]

3 minutes ago, ramone said:

Roeder and CC’s first lot of signings were superb and got us to the play off final. Literally everything you have said in this post is nonsense 

Entitled to your view.

[BIG D]

17 minutes ago, Quist said:

Stuart Gray was excellent coach did a remarkable job in circumstances. In last year we sold Antonio and brought in Stevie May so had effectively negative transfer budget. he also brought in a better quality of players has had better contacts in game. When roeder cam in the rubbish followed. Unfortunately neither Roeder or CC had been in regular employment prior to appointment and their out of touch with current events has shown in signings. CC has also got problem of not understanding English gameand inability to learn.

Tripe

[BIG D]

How come he's struggling at Fulham with the best team and best manager in the league?

[steveger]

I reckon Stuart "As Such" would do Carlos, he's get him in a head lock and give him some knuckle rubbing on his new hair, Carlos would back off blame the referee and go all defensive

Edited November 24, 2017 by steveger

[Pale Rider]

When Stuart was given some money he signed the likes of Bus, Melo,Vermijl. Great recruiting again. So can’t see the justification of thinking he was any better.

[flo]

17 minutes ago, Carl Shutt is God said:

It would be more interesting to look at the stats for Carlos's 1st season goals to game ratio vs the and last season's. I can only imagine there would be a huge diffefence.

2015 16 - 1.43 goals per game

2016 17 - 1.30 gpg

17 18 - 1.27 gpg

[Beholder]

If we had stuck with gray we would have got promoted in my opinion. 

 

Did a great job with nothing. 

[Carl Shutt is God]

Just now, flo said:

2015 16 - 1.43 goals per game

2016 17 - 1.30 gpg

17 18 - 1.27 gpg

Cheers. A trend there and one that is obvious from watching us.

 

I think the play off final really affected Carlos and he wanted to be tougher to beat and has not found the solution as he can't get the balance right.

[StudentOwl]

22 minutes ago, Carl Shutt is God said:

It would be more interesting to look at the stats for Carlos's 1st season goals to game ratio vs the and last season's. I can only imagine there would be a huge diffefence.

66 in season 1 (1.43 gpg)

60 in season 2 (1.30 gpg)

23 so far in s 3 (1.28 gpg)

 

Thanks Flo, morefool me 

Edited November 24, 2017 by StudentOwl