Dutch McLovin Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Southie_Owl said: Brighton and Burnley have shown it's fine having a hard working 442, when you have an outlet like Gray or Knockaert. It's all well and good saying we'll put more players in the box when attacking but we couldn't get the ball off Huddersfield and had to sit deep to prevent their energy and pace getting in behind (which they did in the end). What we didn't have is an outlet with pace to give the ball to whenever we got it, to take the ball up field or make the Huddersfield defence sit deeper. A lot of times during Burnley's promotion seasons they weren't the best team but Andre Gray's pace in behind won them a lot of points I hope we don't regret not signing a winger or striker with pace this summer and that it will be more of the same at Preston This post is spot on. I keep bleeting on about this but if we played Callum McManaman on the left week in week out we would have had exactly what we needed IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock1961 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I have a feeling that those on here who promote a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 are doing it to fit in what they see as our best players, however if we are to play a true 4-4-2 then we don't need a defensive midfield player. How many times last year did we see Hutch drop in as a 3rd CB which then left his partner short of options and help, that's why we appeared overwhelmed or bullied in midfield. How many times did we see Bannan drop back and take the ball off the CB's toes, fanny about a bit and end up giving it back to Westwood to bang up front. In a way we need to show more bravery on the ball from midfield, take the chance of getting the ball to our forwards, rather than the lottery of Westwood's clearance. So my main gripe is that if we are wedded to 4-4-2 then Carlos needs to instil some positional discipline into our central midfield. From the players we have at the moment, this would be my 11. westwood hunt lees hutch reach boyd lee abdi FF hopper Rhodes keeper bannan loovens pudil joao winnall Wallace my opinion only but getting shut of Sasso was an error, many more should have gone before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Cosby Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Nowt wrong with 442 in theory. I love to see a side playing that system well, with central midfielders, wide players and full backs all equally capable of attacking and defending. Bournemouth (the season they got promoted) were the best side I've seen at Hillsborough in recent years, playing a traditional 442. But we don't play like that. As much as I love Hutchinson in the middle of the park, he sits far too deep, as does Bannan (for different reasons). When either of these two play it leads to a real breakdown in fluidity between defence and attack. Keiran Lee is enough of a machine to make up for this, but when he was injured last season we looked all at sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prendo's boots Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 As has been said many times...nowt wrong with 4-4-2 if its played with a positive attitude ... by the sounds of it we're going to be pushing forward more at every oppertunity so all good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Cosby Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, peacock1961 said: I have a feeling that those on here who promote a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 are doing it to fit in what they see as our best players, however if we are to play a true 4-4-2 then we don't need a defensive midfield player. How many times last year did we see Hutch drop in as a 3rd CB which then left his partner short of options and help, that's why we appeared overwhelmed or bullied in midfield. How many times did we see Bannan drop back and take the ball off the CB's toes, fanny about a bit and end up giving it back to Westwood to bang up front. In a way we need to show more bravery on the ball from midfield, take the chance of getting the ball to our forwards, rather than the lottery of Westwood's clearance. So my main gripe is that if we are wedded to 4-4-2 then Carlos needs to instil some positional discipline into our central midfield. From the players we have at the moment, this would be my 11. westwood hunt lees hutch reach boyd lee abdi FF hopper Rhodes keeper bannan loovens pudil joao winnall Wallace my opinion only but getting shut of Sasso was an error, many more should have gone before him. Agree, inparticular with the bits highlighted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 9 hours ago, Morepork said: I'm pleased with those comments, 4-4-2 hasn't been our issue, selection, mentality and "dynamic" as CC calls were the difference between his first season and second. It does sound like we're going to be more positive in general, striking a balance between season one and two would suit me. I'm sure the gaffa has it all in hand. Sums it up perfectly. 442 didn't stymie attacking thrust, style and entertainment last season; mentality/mindset did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dagmeister said: Sums it up perfectly. 442 didn't stymie attacking thrust, style and entertainment last season; mentality/mindset did. Perhaps the point is, we were actually more successful playing the way we played last season Let's not kid ourselves here, it's not like we played that way against the wishes of Carlos. His comments are just managerial sound bites, and you can be surer we will play the same way again this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, peacock1961 said: I have a feeling that those on here who promote a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 are doing it to fit in what they see as our best players, however if we are to play a true 4-4-2 then we don't need a defensive midfield player. How many times last year did we see Hutch drop in as a 3rd CB which then left his partner short of options and help, that's why we appeared overwhelmed or bullied in midfield. How many times did we see Bannan drop back and take the ball off the CB's toes, fanny about a bit and end up giving it back to Westwood to bang up front. In a way we need to show more bravery on the ball from midfield, take the chance of getting the ball to our forwards, rather than the lottery of Westwood's clearance. So my main gripe is that if we are wedded to 4-4-2 then Carlos needs to instil some positional discipline into our central midfield. From the players we have at the moment, this would be my 11. westwood hunt lees hutch reach boyd lee abdi FF hopper Rhodes keeper bannan loovens pudil joao winnall Wallace my opinion only but getting shut of Sasso was an error, many more should have gone before him. Thats as good a starting line up as you'll see at this level, it has balance, creativity and goals in it, yes it lacks pace but I don't see that as the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomas613 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Why o why did you start this as soon as someone mentioned tactics everyone comes out of woodwork believing they are some sort of manager and declaring we should play like this that or other even with a nice diagram of players in positions. End of day day we have our very own mike Bassett he loves 4-4-2. However our mike changes and moves during the game. We may start 4-4-2 but doesn't mean we play like 4-4-2 as said by himself and the players. Leave him to it he's a good manager and knows what he's doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 442 with pacey wingers is great. 442 with Bannan or Abdi on the wing is not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncOwl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Keeping Bannan out of the centre is key for us attacking. We simply don't play well with him in the middle alongside Lee. However, only Iniesta would replace him in CC's eyes. If Bannan starts in the centre, then expect drab football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, DuncOwl said: Keeping Bannan out of the centre is key for us attacking. We simply don't play well with him in the middle alongside Lee. However, only Iniesta would replace him in CC's eyes. If Bannan starts in the centre, then expect drab football. Yes, wide left is his best position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, peacock1961 said: I have a feeling that those on here who promote a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 are doing it to fit in what they see as our best players, however if we are to play a true 4-4-2 then we don't need a defensive midfield player. How many times last year did we see Hutch drop in as a 3rd CB which then left his partner short of options and help, that's why we appeared overwhelmed or bullied in midfield. How many times did we see Bannan drop back and take the ball off the CB's toes, fanny about a bit and end up giving it back to Westwood to bang up front. In a way we need to show more bravery on the ball from midfield, take the chance of getting the ball to our forwards, rather than the lottery of Westwood's clearance. So my main gripe is that if we are wedded to 4-4-2 then Carlos needs to instil some positional discipline into our central midfield. From the players we have at the moment, this would be my 11. westwood hunt lees hutch reach boyd lee abdi FF hopper Rhodes keeper bannan loovens pudil joao winnall Wallace my opinion only but getting shut of Sasso was an error, many more should have gone before him. Excellent post. Wouldnt argue against a single word of this. It also works if some names change as form, fatigue and injuries force changes. Boyd and FF have fabulous cover in Wallace. Lee and Abdi could be Jones and Bannan. Hooper and Rhodes could be Fletcher and Winnall. It's a wonderful squad, perfectly suited to 442, but it needs to revolve around a proper central midfield pairing, with balance across the middle four, and two proper strikers. And positive football !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookieisdown Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Holmowl said: Excellent post. Wouldnt argue against a single word of this. It also works if some names change as form, fatigue and injuries force changes. Boyd and FF have fabulous cover in Wallace. Lee and Abdi could be Jones and Bannan. Hooper and Rhodes could be Fletcher and Winnall. It's a wonderful squad, perfectly suited to 442, but it needs to revolve around a proper central midfield pairing, with balance across the middle four, and two proper strikers. And positive football !!! Largely agree too. It's quite a thing to say we need a radical change to how we play. To me the home game against Ipswich took a largely disappointing start to a real nadir. That was early November. After that, form was knocking on the door of automatic if extended for a whole season. It's not unreasonable to think that with (a) Boyd (b) Hooper playing consistently (c) Lee the same (d) more speculatively Abdi delivering as he did for Watford, we can do a bit better. Abdi over Bannan in midfield? Possibly? Let them fight it out. And it's a long season. Lots of opportunities to play tunes on this as form/fitness dictates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scilly owl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 When I first became interested in football the formation was 5-3-2. Now that was entertaining...we could have Lees and Loovens at the back, Bannan, Hutch and Lee in the middle, outside left and right Wallace and Boyd, inside left and right Fessi and Rhodes and Winnall at centre forward. If we lost our first eight games then I would be prepared to accept that I've got sh•t for brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagmeister Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: Perhaps the point is, we were actually more successful playing the way we played last season Let's not kid ourselves here, it's not like we played that way against the wishes of Carlos. His comments are just managerial sound bites, and you can be surer we will play the same way again this season Maybe, maybe not. Time alone will tell. My opinion is that the players were hampered by mindset last season. CC has to find a way of unshackling the players of this baggage otherwise he'll get a rougher ride this season, IMO, if the entertainment served up is at last season's levels. Only caveat would be if we are running away with auto promotion/get off to an absolute flyer, results wise, and maintain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I think Carlos's comments were PR, largely because it's what supporters wanted to hear, and perhaps for DC's benefit also. The chairman wouldn't have been pleased with the entertainment that was on offer last season. Other than a few cosmetic changes, I don't think we'll play any different. As I said previously, are we expected to believe that the team played negatively against the coaches wishes. Of course not, the system, and the resulting cautious approach was designed by Carlos to enable us to negate our opponents best assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Dagmeister said: Maybe, maybe not. Time alone will tell. My opinion is that the players were hampered by mindset last season. CC has to find a way of unshackling the players of this baggage otherwise he'll get a rougher ride this season, IMO, if the entertainment served up is at last season's levels. Only caveat would be if we are running away with auto promotion/get off to an absolute flyer, results wise, and maintain it. Our results late in the season proved that we are more than capable of getting off to a flyer, even with that cautious mindset, or more likely because of it. My hope is, with better players, Boyd is one, but we'll see who else, we can interpret his ideas with a bit more flair. Also, the fact that the players will be better used to this way of playing now that we're a year down the line Edited July 14, 2017 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Think tank Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Does 4-4-2 get the best out of the players we have? I don't think so. Horrible feeling that we are going to go through the season with the exact same frustrations as last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, Think tank said: Does 4-4-2 get the best out of the players we have? I don't think so. Horrible feeling that we are going to go through the season with the exact same frustrations as last year. We will yes, but if we can get a few better players in, we can probably make the next step Won't be pretty though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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