Southie_Owl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Dont you think Nando could be our energetic and dangerous outball, if played wide like Knockaert was? Potentially he could if he discovers the fitness and pace from his first season with us. Tho with Wallace, Reach, Boyd and Matias I get the feeling FF won't be used by Carlos as a winger very often. But we can live in hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 29 minutes ago, Holmowl said: What you have done there is pick the same set-up that did so poorly at the end of the 15/16 season, and the start of the 16/17 season though. However you write it down on paper, it's still one striker, FF dropping deep, and Bannan on the left of a very narrow midfield, Hutch stays deep. The last two seasons show we don't score goals set up like that. You refuse to accept the evidence of two full seasons which clearly show we score more, win more and play better with two strikers, two CMs and two wingers. Really bizarre how you remember things. You just see what you want to see. We've played a 442 with our fullbacks pushed high and wide, a midfielder dropping deep, and wide players tucking in, for almost 2 full seasons. Since Burnley away in 15/16. You're deluded if you think otherwise. The personnel may have changed at times, but apart from 3 games late last season where we switched to a 433 (and won all 3!), the set up has been the same. We haven't played with 2 out and out wingers under Carlos, even in games you claim we have. Sorry to be blunt but you clearly just don't understand what you're watching. And we've never once played the way I suggested in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Just now, Southie_Owl said: Potentially he could if he discovers the fitness and pace from his first season with us. Tho with Wallace, Reach, Boyd and Matias I get the feeling FF won't be used by Carlos as a winger very often. But we can live in hope I think you are right. His games wide left will be few and far between this season. Huge opportunity missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I wish one of the journo's would ask Carlos for his thoughts on our lack of pace. Not just 'why haven't you got any quick players in your team' sort of stuff but for his thoughts and reasoning on why he doesn't need that attribute and how do we alter our game if our usual approach with our samey, samey type of players isn't working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, Walt said: I wish one of the journo's would ask Carlos for his thoughts on our lack of pace. Not just 'why haven't you got any quick players in your team' sort of stuff but for his thoughts and reasoning on why he doesn't need that attribute and how do we alter our game if our usual approach with our samey, samey type of players isn't working? Think in defence of Carlos, he'd say it was working. Agree though, we need an out ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I'm glad. We need a strong start rather than waiting for a new formation to bed itself in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleo Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Blistering pace is an obvious advantage but it's not the be all and end all. JJ being a good example. His end product was, err, inconsistant shall we say. Mind set and tactics, not formation so much, influence a game. Defending corners with 11 in our box, no outlet at all, ball cleared and comes straight back. Leave 1 up top and someone like Bannan, FF on the edge of our D. And when we get a goal kick, at home, 0-0 with 15 minutes to go, Westy spending ages doing some gardening in his 6 yard box, losing momentum of the game. Loovens taking an age to pass the ball, etc etc. I just think a bit of urgency and positivity would go a long way. Hopefully the penny has dropped for Carlos because I fear this will be his last attempt at promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 43 minutes ago, Bluesteel said: I'm glad. We need a strong start rather than waiting for a new formation to bed itself in. Agree, continuity is currently our best asset Barring a stunning end to this transfer window, it will be the same as it was last season because, quite frankly, keeping it tight is our best way of claiming points. We simply don't have the players to go up playing a more expansive game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Agree, continuity is currently our best asset Barring a stunning end to this transfer window, it will be the same as it was last season because, quite frankly, keeping it tight is our best way of claiming points. We simply don't have the players to go up playing a more expansive game Can see the argument for continuity. Especially considering our form from early November when Carlos told us FF was back to his best in training and Hutch was switched to midfield, was top 2 level. I still think a switch to 433 could make us even stronger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: Can see the argument for continuity. Especially considering our form from early November when Carlos told us FF was back to his best in training and Hutch was switched to midfield, was top 2 level. I still think a switch to 433 could make us even stronger though. I'm definitely making you right there, it would be my preferred way of playing, but.......... Carlos will stick with the 4-4-2 system he has devised. Did he devise it because of the hand he was dealt, in terms of players recently recruited? With the early signings, we looked primed for 4-3-3, but with more recent signings, notably legions of one paced wingers and forwards who lack mobility, and need to play in a two, I've come to the conclusion that, we're better off doing what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Our full backs aren't good enough to play the Manchester City way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, gurujuan said: I'm definitely making you right there, it would be my preferred way of playing, but.......... Carlos will stick with the 4-4-2 system he has devised. Did he devise it because of the hand he was dealt, in terms of players recently recruited? With the early signings, we looked primed for 4-3-3, but with more recent signings, notably legions of one paced wingers and forwards who lack mobility, and need to play in a two, I've come to the conclusion that, we're better off doing what we do. The striker situation certainly suggests we'd be better off sticking to Carlos' 442, but the rest would appear to suit a 433. We're a bit of a mismatch in terms of the link between our build up play and our forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, modboy said: Our full backs aren't good enough to play the Manchester City way Not just our full backs, we don't have the movement and energy that their forward thinking players do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: Can see the argument for continuity. Especially considering our form from early November when Carlos told us FF was back to his best in training and Hutch was switched to midfield, was top 2 level. I still think a switch to 433 could make us even stronger though. Was it really Hutch and FF that gave us top two form? Hutch managed only 16 games from that point, and two half-hour hobbles. FF missed plenty, during which our form picked up massively. My view is that it was down to Carlos misplacing his shoe-horn late November. After that he seldom fielded three CMs, and often fielded two out and out strikers. The results would support the view that it didn't really matter which names were in the frame, but rather that all our players were good enough (incl Hutch and FF of course) once played in a truly balanced side. Edited July 14, 2017 by Holmowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said: The striker situation certainly suggests we'd be better off sticking to Carlos' 442, but the rest would appear to suit a 433. We're a bit of a mismatch in terms of the link between our build up play and our forwards. What about the wingers? There isn't really a role for wingers in a 4-3-3 starting line up, unless they were played as wide attackers. In that case, perhaps only Matias and Forestieri would be a decent fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Holmowl said: Was it really a Hutch and FF that gave us top two form? Hutch managed only 16 games from that point, and two half-hour hobbles. FF missed plenty, during which our form picked up massively. My view is that it was down to Carlos misplacing his shoe-horn late November. After that he seldom fielded three CMs, and often fielded two out and out strikers. The results would support the view that it didn't really matter which names were in the frame, but rather that all our players were good enough (incl Hutch and FF of course) once played in a truly balanced side. Yes. Absolutely it's was the turning point. It got us going. Gave us 2 things we'd lacked up to that point. Presence in midfield and spark in attack. We won 10 in 15 with Hutch playing as an absolute God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 In short, we are going to play 4-4-2, so any of us with preferences for a different system, had better get used to the one we play. Regarding the comments from Carlos, take his comments with a pinch of salt. Nothing in our signings so far, leads me to believe we will come out of our shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 37 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Agree, continuity is currently our best asset Barring a stunning end to this transfer window, it will be the same as it was last season because, quite frankly, keeping it tight is our best way of claiming points. We simply don't have the players to go up playing a more expansive game I think that if we can keep Lee, Hooper and FF fit our system has the perfect balance between attack and defence. When those link players are on it, we are able to control the game and attack teams without leaving the back door open. I think that winning run in the final months showed how well it can work, but the play offs showed how it is lacking when key players aren't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, gurujuan said: What about the wingers? There isn't really a role for wingers in a 4-3-3 starting line up, unless they were played as wide attackers. In that case, perhaps only Matias and Forestieri would be a decent fit FF and Matias (if we can get him for) certainly. But I also think Boyd is a great fit. He's deceptively quick, pretty tricky and a tireless worker. He's a player who could do a good job in both formations tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballmeist Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Expect more of the same from last season then. I'm pleased we're still playing 4-4-2 but we definitely need to be more fluid. We looked far too rigid at time last season and it made for pretty dull viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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