44-chuffing-2! Carlos talks tactics

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:

4-4-2 can work.

 

But it won't work if you shove Bannan wide left, Forestieri up top or Hutch in the middle.

 

Lets have players playing in their proper positions.

 

100% it won't work.

 

Has he FINALLY realised that after the semi?

[IstillhateSteveBould]

2 minutes ago, ramone said:

He did this about 4 times last season and soon realised it didn't work.

 

He did it a lot more than that. One of the reasons Fernandinho was often played at right back. May have tweaked formations, but that's how he generally uses his fullbacks.

[Dagmeister]

17 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

The only thing I'll say about Rhodes, whatever my opinion of his abilities, there was little interest from championship clubs, half of whom are more than able to meet that sort of fee. As for your first point, I agree, we do have players with more to offer, Joao, Matias, Rhodes himself and Abdi spring to mind. However, most of our players, being at the wrong end of their careers, aren't likely to improve individually, and that supposes players at other clubs won't also improve.

My understanding is that there was interest in Rhodes but that Middlesborough were wanting way over £6m which is probably where the much quoted £10m came from. They struck a deal with DC at the death which I suspect was for significantly less than they were wanting. DC may well have played a blinder.

 

I'd add Reach and Hunt to your list though. FF, Lees, Lee, Hutch, Bannan, Hooper, are already excellent players and all still in their prime. Fletch and Westwood might be termed veterans but still have plenty to offer. FF has more in his tank than he showed last season as we know. We need another two or three incomings but I maintain that there is more to come from existing players than they showed last season and this is CC's biggest challenge.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Dagmeister

[ramone]

Just now, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

He did it a lot more than that. One of the reasons Fernandinho was often played at right back. May have tweaked formations, but that's how he generally uses his fullbacks.

Fernandinho was played at RB because he didn't fancy Zaba or Sagna. He did play the inverted full backs i'll give you that but its not 'his style', he tried it early in the season and scrapped it. 

[Dutch McLovin]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

 

Yes, wide left is his best position

No bench is his best position. To get the best from Bannan you need to play him more advanced in maybe a 4231 formation which we don't and won't be playing 

[Holmowl]

2 hours ago, DuncOwl said:

Keeping Bannan out of the centre is key for us attacking. We simply don't play well with him in the middle alongside Lee. However, only Iniesta would replace him in CC's eyes. If Bannan starts in the centre, then expect drab football.

 

Why do you think that Bannan is so often picked out by oppo fans, managers and tv pundits as our best player and awarded so many MOMs by Sky?

 

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

 

Yes, wide left is his best position

 

Do you genuinely think this or are you just causing debate? It would mean Bannan is wrong, pundits are wrong, and 90% of our fans are wrong.

 

IMO he and the team are 25% better when he is CM.

[Holmowl]

51 minutes ago, Think tank said:

 

If we are moving forward, Bannan shouldn't be in the team. 

 

48 minutes ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Fair point. Abdi's a better player anyway imo.

 

No cheating boys....Carlos has told us it's 442.

 

Given that, are you certain that Abdi is better than Bannan in a central 2?

 

Do you genuinely think Abdi has the engine and work-rate to do what Baz did all last season? He may do, but we saw no evidence of it.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

10 minutes ago, ramone said:

Fernandinho was played at RB because he didn't fancy Zaba or Sagna. He did play the inverted full backs i'll give you that but its not 'his style', he tried it early in the season and scrapped it. 

 

He used his fullbacks the same way at Bayern. They tuck in and double up as defensive midfielders.

[Holmowl]

50 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

Frankly, I don't think some of our players are as good as some of us think they are. Yes we have a large experienced squad, but a lot of them have seen better days. When I see comments about every other club in the division wishing they had our attacking assets, it makes me smile. In terms of numbers, yes maybe, in terms of personnel, I'm not so sure. For example, how much interest was there in Rhodes, even at a knock down price of £6m? In a championship awash with money, none, aside from a brief flirtation from the basket case that is Villa Even they decided he wasn't worth the £6m, and promptly spent twice that on Hogan.

My point is, we have a decent squad full of good players, and in terms of numbers it is bigger than most, but starting eleven quality, we still have a bit to do

 

I think we have some absolutely terrific players. Top drawer. Really exciting.

 

I loved watching them in 15/16. Couldn't wait to take my seat. We added even better players, in Fletch, Abdi, Reach and Rhodes and yet our style of football got utterly depressing. 

 

Release the shackles and we we can look forward to wonderful players playing wonderful football.

[Beholder]

Bannan is frustrating player for in my opinion..

 

It is a bit like the JOC situation,  not in terms of ability,  but because he is a really willing player who never goes missing. 

 

This has somehow made him undroppable. 

 

But if him being in there prevents Abdi getting picked, the team misses out on quality.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peacock1961]

3 hours ago, DuncOwl said:

Keeping Bannan out of the centre is key for us attacking. We simply don't play well with him in the middle alongside Lee. However, only Iniesta would replace him in CC's eyes. If Bannan starts in the centre, then expect drab football.

Not many people know this, but about 35 years ago Carlos was offered a trial in Holland but ended up in Rotherham when he should have been in Rotterdam, he ended up in the Adam and Eve and was photographed in the women's bogs with Vinegar Liz. Somehow our Bazza got hold of those photos.

[Holmowl]

Just now, Bodhidharma said:

Bannan is frustrating player for in my opinion..

 

It is a bit like the JOC situation,  not in terms of ability,  but because he is a really willing player who never goes missing. 

 

This has somehow made him undroppable. 

 

But if him being in there prevents Abdi getting picked, the team misses out on quality.  

 

 

What prevented Abdi being picked ahead of Bannan was his performance.  He didn't have too many chances, and even fewer in his best role centrally, but you have to admit that he never grasped at the few opportunities he had.

 

He had one terrific game and several moderate games. 

 

I would love to see Abdi, Bannan, Lee and Jones making it hugely difficult for Carlos to choose his two CMs, but that certainly didn't happen last year.

 

TBF Jones played really well in the first four matches of our six win run before getting injured. It would have been great to see him, Baz and Lee killing each other for two shirts. (Not all three please Carlos!)

[Think tank]

19 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

Bannan is frustrating player for in my opinion..

 

It is a bit like the JOC situation,  not in terms of ability,  but because he is a really willing player who never goes missing. 

 

This has somehow made him undroppable. 

 

But if him being in there prevents Abdi getting picked, the team misses out on quality.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get this 'never goes missing' chat about Bannan. He runs around like a headless chicken at times,  looking busy but not actually doing anything.

 

He is one of the main reasons we get over-ran in midfield at times. He is like a man down and one of the easiest players to get past once someone builds up a bit of momentum. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Think tank

[peacock1961]

30 minutes ago, Think tank said:

 

I don't get this 'never goes missing' chat about Bannan. He runs around like a headless chicken at times,  looking busy but not actually doing anything.

 

He is one of the main reasons we get over-ran in midfield at times. He is like a man down and one of the easiest players to get past once someone builds up a bit of momentum. 

HE's a fans favourite and I've lost count of the arguments I've had about his performances. Don't get me wrong if he's in the team then I want him to do well, but I think he's the most overrated (by fellow fans) player we've had for years. When he plays everything has to go through him and he slows it down and stifles progress. I just hope CC has had him on shooting practice this close season, because he is abject in front of goal. He was up to his tricks on Tuesday night, have a look at the 1st minute of the Alfreton highlights, 4 passes on and he lazily strokes it to their centre forward on the edge of the box.    

[fred mciver]

Same formation as Conte said for Chelsea last Summer. See what happened.

 

And why would DC signal our real intent? Carlos said we won't buy Hooper, 2 days later he signed.

 

It's all smoke and mirrors pre -season. Real  message to MAGPIES etc was reduce your central defender asking prices. 

[gurujuan]

2 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

Why do you think that Bannan is so often picked out by oppo fans, managers and tv pundits as our best player and awarded so many MOMs by Sky?

 

 

Do you genuinely think this or are you just causing debate? It would mean Bannan is wrong, pundits are wrong, and 90% of our fans are wrong.

 

IMO he and the team are 25% better when he is CM.

 

Well that's a good question He's our playmaker, so until we find better, we have to play In a midfield two with Lee, the pairing isn't strong enough to dominate against most sides Throw in Hutchinson, then him and Lee are strong enough, but nowhere near creative enough, hence shoehorning Bannan in to get the creativity When Bannan plays wide left, he pretty much plays inside left 

Don't know what the answer is, other than to recruit players who can play as a two

[Holmowl]

3 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

Well that's a good question He's our playmaker, so until we find better, we have to play In a midfield two with Lee, the pairing isn't strong enough to dominate against most sides Throw in Hutchinson, then him and Lee are strong enough, but nowhere near creative enough, hence shoehorning Bannan in to get the creativity When Bannan plays wide left, he pretty much plays inside left 

Don't know what the answer is, other than to recruit players who can play as a two

 

I might not always agree with you but I appreciate discussing with you. Your views are well explained, rational and calm.

[archieswfc]

15 hours ago, Blue and white said:

I have no problem with any formation as long as players are played to there strengths.

442 doesn't work when you try and shoehorn 3 cm's into a starting 11.

The 2 wide men need to be 2 from Boyd, Forestieri, Reach and Wallace.

In the middle it's 2 from Bannan, Lee, Abdi, Hutchinson and Jones. 

This is assuming we start the season without any more additions to the midfield.

As long as this happens then 442 works and I have no problems with it.

Ultimately it's Carlos job and his choice, get it wrong and he won't be around to see it through.

Exactly this. It's accomodating players out if position that's the real problem not the formation. 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

17 minutes ago, archieswfc said:

Exactly this. It's accomodating players out if position that's the real problem not the formation. 

 

Who plays out of position?

 

Bannan's played maybe half his career as a left sided midfielder.

 

Abdi played a considerable number of PL games as a wide midfielder.

[Costello 77]

4 hours ago, gurujuan said:

I think Carlos's comments were PR, largely because it's what supporters wanted to hear, and perhaps for DC's benefit also. The chairman wouldn't have been pleased with the entertainment that was on offer last season. 

Other than a few cosmetic changes, I don't think we'll play any different. As I said previously, are we expected to believe that the team played negatively against the coaches wishes. Of course not, the system, and the resulting cautious approach was designed by Carlos to enable us to negate our opponents best assets. 

Perhaps the coach is describing the way he got round injuries to major players last season...And now he's got a full set to pick from, he can play a more expansive game?