Stadium Capacity discussion; is a 40k stadium too big?

[Sova]

1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Sunerland aint a big place, if they can attract that many fans then we can aim for that

 

But Tyne and Wear has a population of 1.1 million, almost as big as South Yorkshire's 1.3 million, and it's a third of the size - the population density there is more than twice South Yorkshire's. And they've just two local teams, compared to South Yorkshire's five. Not only that, but there are no league clubs north of Newcastle, their nearest league club to the west is Carlisle, and there's only Hartlepool and Middlesbrough between them and Leeds. They have a huge catchment area.

[Ellis Rimmer]

5 minutes ago, Sova said:

 

But Tyne and Wear has a population of 1.1 million, almost as big as South Yorkshire's 1.3 million, and it's a third of the size - the population density there is more than twice South Yorkshire's. And they've just two local teams, compared to South Yorkshire's five. Not only that, but there are no league clubs north of Newcastle, their nearest league club to the west is Carlisle, and there's only Hartlepool and Middlesbrough between them and Leeds. They have a huge catchment area.

agree with all of that

[ash60s]

sad indication of the times but we have been "massively" affected by the armchair brigade/pub watchers in past 10+years

Every day around Dinno you see kids & blokes in the "top 6" attire - we're losing the locals because of being starved of success

It'll change when we back tho!

[Geedee]

2 hours ago, ash60s said:

sad indication of the times but we have been "massively" affected by the armchair brigade/pub watchers in past 10+years

Every day around Dinno you see kids & blokes in the "top 6" attire - we're losing the locals because of being starved of success

It'll change when we back tho!

I don't think this will change  by Wednesday getting promoted. Eg  It's not the same but it's easier and a hell of a lot cheaper to follow manchester united via a live stream than to go to football at Hillsborough. 

 

It's a different way of watching sport that just did not exist 30 years ago.  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Geedee

[np pontefract]

4 hours ago, bluemagic said:

Historically Sunderland and Everton have always got more than us. For example in 1961 when we finished 2nd in Division One we got 30k, and Everton got 43k, and in 1965 when Sunderland only finished 15th in Division 1 they got over 40k avg. London is a growing city and far more people to attract in. 

 

I think it boils down to us sharing a 500k city, split roughly 50/50, not many surrounding towns to draw from, and when you have 250k people, you normally hover around 20-30k avg, which we historically always have done.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with your analysis. 

History is one thing but future potential is another thing altogether. 

 

As for your assertion that city support is spit 50/50.  Surely it's more like 60/40.

 

Wednesday are without  doubt the bigger club and have many supporters from outside the city,

throughout Yorkshire and beyond !

 

[pgmetcalf]

Whatever, it would still be better than the run-down plastic subbuteo stadium of Bumhole Lane and their plastic fans, which is in a select area of town frequented by cutthroats, vagabonds and unsavoury characters

[Guest mrbluesky]

Yes

[latemodelchild]

6 hours ago, scram said:

 

 

When was the time prior to that - and the time since - that similar capacity has been reached?

We had a sell out the other week. Reduced capacity but all tickets sold and we could have sold more. Arsenal cup game was sold out I believe, or near as. We'll sell out next season if we play the pigs. It's about potential. In the prem we would average 36k plus if SAG and SYP allow it. Our ground won't be big enough then. 

[bradowl]

8 hours ago, bluemagic said:

I got my first season ticket in the 92/93, but I can't remember us ever coming close to selling out the stadium on a regular basis. Even when we did sell out - Man United and the other lot - a good proportion in the south and north were away fans. I honestly question whether we are capable of getting 35-40k home fans except in exceptional circumstances.

 

You look back at our attendance record and we got 31k when we finished runners up in 61, and when we've had decent teams (90's and now) we haven't threatened to equal or surpass that. The only time we got over 40k was after the war, when there wasn't any other entertainment, and people would switch watching between wed/united, obviously boosting home attendance, due to the difficulty of travelling to away matches. 

 

I wonder, would we be better off either redeveloping (replace lep and kop) Hillsborough to a 30-32k capacity stadium or building a new one with a similar capacity. Nothing wrong with admitting a 40k stadium is too big, Juventus moved into a new 40k Stadium - from a 60k Stadium - to improve demand for tickets, improve the atmosphere and to fill the stadium, because they simple couldnt sell 60k of tickets. 

 

Football in this country has moved on massively from early 90s. 

 

Clubs like Newcastle, Sunderland, Chelsea and many more were getting much smaller attendance than they are now. I can remember going to Old Trafford in late 80s and they were only 32,000 and capacity was 57,000 even back then. 

 

If we ever get to premeir league I'm almost certain we would need a bigger stadium especially with restrictions we have in place for segregation at Hillsborough. 

[Mr Meadows]

8 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

What about Newcastle averaging very poor crowds, Chelsea too, clubs can improve

 

i'll bet newcastle have always had more than us, and despite no success have averaged over 50k for about teh last 15 seasons, no way we'd ever get close to that

 

i agree chelsea's crowds were bobbar until they got the investment, but their sustained success has meant they have held on to these numbers

Edited March 20, 2017 by SWFC18

[hypnosisman]

Let's go back to 1991 when Wednesday got promoted under Big Ron.  They averaged 26K when the average in the top division was 20K.  Back in the early 50's they were averaging 42K a week, which was close to what Man Utd were getting at the time.  Imagine what crowds Wednesday would have got in the 50's if they had been near the top of the 1st division, not going between the 1st and 2nd division.  Most Premier division clubs are getting bigger crowds than they historically got in their heyday.  Run Wednesday right and they will get massive crowds.  A ground move to the East End would massively increase crowds, a modern ground could be built to look good and create the right atmosphere.

[DuttyTeabags]

Philosophically I feel this is a similar question to, "is a 12in member too big?".  Now the key is to whether one can fill member with the required bloodflow without feeling faint.  The simple answer is viagra.

 

Sheffield Wednesday need the metaphorical equivalent of viagra to be able to fill the stadium.

 

There was Viagra available at £13-£15m but we decided to take a combination of lower quality, untested herbal stimulants at  around £2, £3, £4m. Even in combination these stimulants haven't been able to maintain a performance for more than 15-30 mins per session and have left us feeling limp, frustrated and largely unsatisfied.

 

As a panic measure we paid over the odds for a once potent brand which has so far only delivered the required levels of arousal in fits and starts, and certainly doesn't seem to have set the libido on fire.

 

Not since a certain M Antonio have we had the pace, power and virility to fill a stadium and take bums off seats. 

 

So lie back, open thee wallets and think of England whilst you endure the next 90min session of formulaic limp pounding.

[PeteG_1984]

^^^^

 

[optimisticowl]

When you buy your first home you don't need the same amount of space that you would need with a family, when you would have to move or extend. Likewise with football stadia, promotion to the Premiership could see vastly increased gate receipts. The just under 30K average gates that we got in Trevor Francis's first year in charge are history, football is massive these days so why not plan for success?

 

Also the Arena is about to be demolished, Hillsborough could pick up some tasty revenue from concerts, it has been massively unused since the disaster, which although a tragedy is also history.

[DuttyTeabags]

3 minutes ago, optimisticowl said:

When you buy your first home you don't need the same amount of space that you would need with a family, when you would have to move or extend. Likewise with football stadia, promotion to the Premiership could see vastly increased gate receipts. The just under 30K average gates that we got in Trevor Francis's first year in charge are history, football is massive these days so why not plan for success?

 

Also the Arena is about to be demolished, Hillsborough could pick up some tasty revenue from concerts, it has been massively unused since the disaster, which although a tragedy is also history.

 

 

Imagine the desso after a few music gigs, we might have 11 players doing the Dielna, "kick it away it's a grenade" manoeuvre!

 

Mixed use professional sport + entertainment is a struggle to pull off.   Just ask the 'ammers.

[adelphi1867]

Heard a rumour yesterday, from a friend who had been talking to an official from S&HFA, the discussion got round to what will happen locally in the near future.

The official apparently said the only thing on the Horizon was "The New stadium in Hillsborough park, for Wednesday".

It's only a rumour.

[Ellis Rimmer]

1 hour ago, SWFC18 said:

 

i'll bet newcastle have always had more than us, and despite no success have averaged over 50k for about teh last 15 seasons, no way we'd ever get close to that

 

i agree chelsea's crowds were bobbar until they got the investment, but their sustained success has meant they have held on to these numbers

Nah we have averaged more than Newcastle over the season a few times

[WadsleyOwl]

1 hour ago, adelphi1867 said:

Heard a rumour yesterday, from a friend who had been talking to an official from S&HFA, the discussion got round to what will happen locally in the near future.

The official apparently said the only thing on the Horizon was "The New stadium in Hillsborough park, for Wednesday".

It's only a rumour.

Let's hope it is just a rumour as there's enough poo brownfield sites in Sheffield to build a new stadium without ruining one of Sheffields pleasant green spaces

[S36 OWL]

3 hours ago, optimisticowl said:

When you buy your first home you don't need the same amount of space that you would need with a family, when you would have to move or extend. Likewise with football stadia, promotion to the Premiership could see vastly increased gate receipts. The just under 30K average gates that we got in Trevor Francis's first year in charge are history, football is massive these days so why not plan for success?

 

Also the Arena is about to be demolished, Hillsborough could pick up some tasty revenue from concerts, it has been massively unused since the disaster, which although a tragedy is also history.

 

You really think DC is going to let people trash his £1m Desso pitch . 

[optimisticowl]

12 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

You really think DC is going to let people trash his £1m Desso pitch . 

 

£1m is 10% of the Rhodes transfer fee, nowt really.