10 seconds that epitomised our season

[Essix Blue]

The results we rescued (Kieron Lee mainly) earlier in the season were the warning signs. We just haven't performed well at home (even when we've won) anything like we did last season. 

 

Strange that the performances that DO stand out this season have been away..... Norwich early on, Brum, Newcastle, Leeds even Brighton. Games we've really looked something like and played very well although not always getting the result. 

 

Now the way we play at home is classic playing away tactics - slow, keep possession, look for counter attack. But it doesn't work at home - the onus is on US to take the game to the opposition, but that's not happening. 

 

I really cant see us making top 6 - the form we're in combined with the good form teams around us have. But I wouldn't sack Carlos, not now, he deserves his chance to see the season out. Then plan for next season. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Essix Blue

[Wakefield owl]

1 minute ago, Essix Blue said:

The results we rescued (Kieron Lee mainly) earlier in the season were the warning signs. We just haven't performed well at home (even when we've won) anything like we did last season. 

 

Strange that the performances that DO stand out this season have been away..... Norwich early on, Brum, Newcastle, Leeds even Brighton. Games we've really looked something like and played very well although not always getting the result. 

 

Now owt the way we play at home is classic playing away tactics - slow, keep possession, look for counter attack. But it doesn't work at home - the onus is on US to take the game to the opposition, but that's not happening. 

 

I really cant see us making top 6 - the form we're in combined with the good form teams around us have. But I wouldn't sack Carlos, not now, he deserves his chance to see the season out. Then plan for next season. 

 

Fulham are showing good form but I don't think Leeds and Reading are and I couldn't have put myself through the agony of coming on here if we had lost 4-0 to Bristol City.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

2 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Fulham are showing good form but I don't think Leeds and Reading are and I couldn't have put myself through the agony of coming on here if we had lost 4-0 to Bristol City.

Would that be the same Reading who beat us 2-0 at home last night?

[Essix Blue]

Just now, Andoverowl said:

Would that be the same Reading who beat us 2-0 at home last night?

Do you need to be in good form to beat us??

 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

2 minutes ago, Essix Blue said:

Do you need to be in good form to beat us??

 

No.       

[DuttyTeabags]

Glenn Hoddle is the answer. 

[Essix Blue]

1 minute ago, DuttyTeabags said:

Glenn Hoddle is the answer. 

 

If the question is 'who'd be the worst replacement for CC'......  

[TheEnchanter]

Is there anyone available though that would be worth bringing in now then backing in the summer? I genuinely have no idea. 

[bigthinrob]

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

And it was probably something people have become numb to so didn't really register it

 

It was about 25 minutes into the game last night, we were 1-0 down and it was within a minute of Jordan Rhodes getting polaxed infront of the south stand.  We win a throw in probably about 15 yards away from the corner flag. Jack Hunt does a quick jog up to get the ball... he's not messing around he's going to throw it in quick. The crowd are baying for blood, spurring the team onward... we're angry, we're losing and Rhodes has been fouled for the third time in five minutes. He stands at the touchline for 10 seconds, not throwing the ball in... then turns, and throws it 20 yards backwards to Tom Lees.

...What?

 

We're losing, the crowd is screaming and urging you on... attack. I love this whole passing and possession game more than most, but the whole point is that with that type of game you work the ball into a dangerous area... we're in the dangerous area guys, it's time to strike! But alas, I feel it sums up our season and entire mentality under Carlos for some time now... for the last 13/14 months or so, we've really not been very good at scoring goals. 

 

Yesterday was the first time I thought it was time for Carlos to go. We didn't look like a team yesterday. From about 30 minutes onwards, the tactic to me looked like we were hoping Buckley or someone would have a moment of brilliance. There was no direction, or team plan... just the hope that an individual would do something outstanding to carve open a chance. Compare it to Reading, who had a direction and purpose to their game, who attacked far more like a coherent unit rather than 7/8 individuals moving forward and hoping to make something. 

 

Let's be pragmatic, honest and fair. If Carlos doesn't get us up this season, he should probably be gone... especially when you compare resources spent to the other teams that are in or pushing for the play-offs. Does CC deserve at least until the end of the season? Normally I would say so, he deserves it for last season, but what's the benefit of keeping him longer? If there's a manager available, bringing him in now gives him the opportunity to properly assess the squad to plan for summer recruitment. Waiting will only hinder any future manager we might bring in. And if people want to say I'm being defeatest... that we're still in the play-offs and our season isn't over, you're very right. But at the end of the day, we've currently only won 3 of our 10 games against other teams in the top 7... it doesn't bode well for a play-off run in. Of course we could still do it, but in all likelihood we're going to miss out. I love the bloke, but I think perhaps it's time to realise he won't be the one that can get us promoted in the next 2/3 years, and realistically speaking we probably can't afford to wait much longer than that

 

I don't disagree with most of this and the actual throw in scenario is typical of the lack of tempo and sustaining momentum that seems to cost us and for me the biggest criticism. 

 

Is this CCs instructions though or the lack of adventure on the player's part? (I suppose it can be argued that everything that happens on the pitch is eventually down to the manager though).

 

I also think the players are much more reluctant to try the more 'adventurous' things this year because of the inevitable groans that arise when a player has the bottle to try things but it doesn't come off, whereas last year because of the lesser expectation the crowd were much more patient. 

 

The natural reaction is to play safe in future and not try anything. Adam Reach being a typical example. Tries to beat a player, it doesn't come off huge groan, Reach is S**t, Sasso is s**t, whereas Tom Lees playing hoofball is a God.

 

Think it's all a bit irrelevant now though to be honest. Their seems to be huge fault lines between fans & fans, fans & players, fans & manager, which look irreparable to me.

 

I reckon either CC will walk or the clamour for his head grows to such an extent he end up going and it all starts over again. One group have their chosen man, someone else gets the job, they hold a grudge until it starts to go pear shaped.  One group want a rampaging style manager, the other group demand results regardless of style, one of them doesn't get their way, they hold a grudge and start the same campaign that has been simmering against CC since he had the temerity to accept the job at S6 starts all over again.

 

 

[steelcityowlsfan]

There's a lot of emotion still in me from last night that doesn't always translate well into words but I will give it a go. 

 

The football last night was at best pedestrian. Half the crowd could see the pass before the players could. By the time we passed to the player we were screaming to pass to Reading had regrouped. 

 

They came to play spoilers and executed it to perfection. Once again we had zero service for Rhodes. We have the divisions most lethal striker and yet our play couldn't be any less threatening. Only in the last 10 minutes of the second half did we look like doing something. 

 

Why Buckley got the nod over McMannaman is baffling. Macca is the only player currently fit that has some pace and will run at players. The boy can cross too so heaven knows why he didn't start. 

 

In my heart of hearts I knew at 0-1 we were going to lose the game. You could just see the predictable play we have was going to cost us. Only Newcastle have spent more than us in the top 6 yet are struggling to hold onto 6th position. I expect come 17:50 today we will be 7th. 

 

If you were DC would you be confident and happy with our current plight? I know I wouldn't be. The thing is though I'm not sure a new manager would have enough time to make an impact. I think we are going to have to ride it out but I expect a change in the summer unless  performances and results dramatically change on the pitch. 

[Chardron]

43 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Fulham are showing good form but I don't think Leeds and Reading are and I couldn't have put myself through the agony of coming on here if we had lost 4-0 to Bristol City.

 

They beat us 4-1 last April. 

[StudentOwl]

And I don't want to beat him down, but it's a simple stat that furthers my point:

 

Over the last 12 months, we've scored 60 goals in 47 league games. That's an average of just under 1.3 goals per game... which works out at 59 goals per season, which is clearly nowhere near the number of goals you need to score to be close to the top two. This is a 12 month average too, I'm not just taking recent results and extrapolating a problem that doesn't exist. We have a very longstanding problem of not scoring goals with Carlos in charge. I would say give him until the end of the season through loyalty, but if the conclusion ends up being "we'll sack him anyway", I just can't see a reason not to do it sooner to give ourselves more time to find a replacement and give that replacement more time to assess the squad (ideally even in a handful of competitive fixtures) to help us push on next season. 

 

We made about a half a dozen signings in the summer of 2015 that pushed us from a mid-table outfit to one that could finish in the top 6, and another half-dozen to give us great strength in depth. But since then, we really have essentially stagnated, despite another £10 million outlay this summer and an increase in squad size to the largest in this division. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by StudentOwl

[soldierboyblue]

1 hour ago, Wakefield owl said:

"Reading attacked like a far more coherent unit"??

 

Can someone please remind when they threatened apart from the goal (forget the second) or when Westwood had to make a difficult save?

They came with a plan executed it perfectly and we had no answer! We didn't have a meaningful attack until the 84th minute and by then it was far too little to late! Never have I called for CC to be removed but after that last night he is under pressure and lots of it.

[mogbad]

2 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

And it was probably something people have become numb to so didn't really register it

 

It was about 25 minutes into the game last night, we were 1-0 down and it was within a minute of Jordan Rhodes getting polaxed infront of the south stand.  We win a throw in probably about 15 yards away from the corner flag. Jack Hunt does a quick jog up to get the ball... he's not messing around he's going to throw it in quick. The crowd are baying for blood, spurring the team onward... we're angry, we're losing and Rhodes has been fouled for the third time in five minutes. He stands at the touchline for 10 seconds, not throwing the ball in... then turns, and throws it 20 yards backwards to Tom Lees.

...What?

 

We're losing, the crowd is screaming and urging you on... attack. I love this whole passing and possession game more than most, but the whole point is that with that type of game you work the ball into a dangerous area... we're in the dangerous area guys, it's time to strike! But alas, I feel it sums up our season and entire mentality under Carlos for some time now... for the last 13/14 months or so, we've really not been very good at scoring goals. 

 

Yesterday was the first time I thought it was time for Carlos to go. We didn't look like a team yesterday. From about 30 minutes onwards, the tactic to me looked like we were hoping Buckley or someone would have a moment of brilliance. There was no direction, or team plan... just the hope that an individual would do something outstanding to carve open a chance. Compare it to Reading, who had a direction and purpose to their game, who attacked far more like a coherent unit rather than 7/8 individuals moving forward and hoping to make something. 

 

Let's be pragmatic, honest and fair. If Carlos doesn't get us up this season, he should probably be gone... especially when you compare resources spent to the other teams that are in or pushing for the play-offs. Does CC deserve at least until the end of the season? Normally I would say so, he deserves it for last season, but what's the benefit of keeping him longer? If there's a manager available, bringing him in now gives him the opportunity to properly assess the squad to plan for summer recruitment. Waiting will only hinder any future manager we might bring in. And if people want to say I'm being defeatest... that we're still in the play-offs and our season isn't over, you're very right. But at the end of the day, we've currently only won 3 of our 10 games against other teams in the top 7... it doesn't bode well for a play-off run in. Of course we could still do it, but in all likelihood we're going to miss out. I love the bloke, but I think perhaps it's time to realise he won't be the one that can get us promoted in the next 2/3 years, and realistically speaking we probably can't afford to wait much longer than that

 

The throwing the ball back to the back four & passing it about aimlessly when we're in an advanced position, pressing the opposition with the fans fired up has been doing my head in all season. We even do it with free kicks.

 

If you're 1-0 up away from home I can understand it but at home when we're 1 down its unacceptable. It's bound to generate a negative reaction from the supporters which transfers onto the pitch & affects the players.

 

We believe the ball should go into the box from these situations, I suspect the majority of the players feel the same way.

 

It smacks to me of a coach that over thinks the game & becomes too blinkered about his own ideals & coaching philosophy.

 

Unless Carlos opens his eyes he'll lose the fans & the dressing room but ultimately the patience of DC.

Edited March 18, 2017 by mogbad

[marshy]

2 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

And it was probably something people have become numb to so didn't really register it

 

It was about 25 minutes into the game last night, we were 1-0 down and it was within a minute of Jordan Rhodes getting polaxed infront of the south stand.  We win a throw in probably about 15 yards away from the corner flag. Jack Hunt does a quick jog up to get the ball... he's not messing around he's going to throw it in quick. The crowd are baying for blood, spurring the team onward... we're angry, we're losing and Rhodes has been fouled for the third time in five minutes. He stands at the touchline for 10 seconds, not throwing the ball in... then turns, and throws it 20 yards backwards to Tom Lees.

...What?

 

We're losing, the crowd is screaming and urging you on... attack. I love this whole passing and possession game more than most, but the whole point is that with that type of game you work the ball into a dangerous area... we're in the dangerous area guys, it's time to strike! But alas, I feel it sums up our season and entire mentality under Carlos for some time now... for the last 13/14 months or so, we've really not been very good at scoring goals. 

 

Yesterday was the first time I thought it was time for Carlos to go. We didn't look like a team yesterday. From about 30 minutes onwards, the tactic to me looked like we were hoping Buckley or someone would have a moment of brilliance. There was no direction, or team plan... just the hope that an individual would do something outstanding to carve open a chance. Compare it to Reading, who had a direction and purpose to their game, who attacked far more like a coherent unit rather than 7/8 individuals moving forward and hoping to make something. 

 

Let's be pragmatic, honest and fair. If Carlos doesn't get us up this season, he should probably be gone... especially when you compare resources spent to the other teams that are in or pushing for the play-offs. Does CC deserve at least until the end of the season? Normally I would say so, he deserves it for last season, but what's the benefit of keeping him longer? If there's a manager available, bringing him in now gives him the opportunity to properly assess the squad to plan for summer recruitment. Waiting will only hinder any future manager we might bring in. And if people want to say I'm being defeatest... that we're still in the play-offs and our season isn't over, you're very right. But at the end of the day, we've currently only won 3 of our 10 games against other teams in the top 7... it doesn't bode well for a play-off run in. Of course we could still do it, but in all likelihood we're going to miss out. I love the bloke, but I think perhaps it's time to realise he won't be the one that can get us promoted in the next 2/3 years, and realistically speaking we probably can't afford to wait much longer than that

Bang on. 

[Animis]

1 hour ago, aeroswfc said:

When we did attack they defended like lions and tigers and we couldnt score.

 

shame Fox didn't do the same for their first goal

[poite]

Totally agree.

 

The only thing that frustrates me is that there are a number of people who have been saying this for a long time now and they have been branded moaning, clueless idiots who are anti-Wednesday and non-supporters. 

 

Not aimed at you mate but it's about time people took the blue and white tinted specs off and realised exactly what has been happening for quite a while. 

 

 

 

[HIGHERSTATE]

I dont think we were as bad as people have made out...just Reading looked so much more composed and with a clear gameplan.

 

The way I see it is, Carlos took the Hull defeat to heart and spent the whole last summer coming up with pass pass pass tactics to try to manage games..This worked to a certain points but looking too open he tightened it up and slowed our game down even further hoping to nick goals...

 

Then with Winnall, Rhodes extra coming in he's tried to play like a typical english team, basically what everyone who claimed to be bored was crying out for and this still doesnt seem to be working..

 

And I agree it doesn't look like we practice set pieces, we have a large lack of creativity, strength, steel and we rarely win headers.

 

This quote from Jaap Stam seems to sum it up "We also knew what we could do to make it hard for them"  Make it tough for Bannan and one or two of our creative players and were basically done for.

[owlsdreamer]

1 hour ago, Wakefield owl said:

"Reading attacked like a far more coherent unit"??

 

Can someone please remind when they threatened apart from the goal (forget the second) or when Westwood had to make a difficult save?

They did use the ball better than us and kept it for long periods.

 

[Animis]

36 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

I don't disagree with most of this and the actual throw in scenario is typical of the lack of tempo and sustaining momentum that seems to cost us and for me the biggest criticism. 

 

Is this CCs instructions though or the lack of adventure on the player's part? (I suppose it can be argued that everything that happens on the pitch is eventually down to the manager though).

 

I also think the players are much more reluctant to try the more 'adventurous' things this year because of the inevitable groans that arise when a player has the bottle to try things but it doesn't come off, whereas last year because of the lesser expectation the crowd were much more patient. 

 

The natural reaction is to play safe in future and not try anything. Adam Reach being a typical example. Tries to beat a player, it doesn't come off huge groan, Reach is S**t, Sasso is s**t, whereas Tom Lees playing hoofball is a God.

 

Think it's all a bit irrelevant now though to be honest. Their seems to be huge fault lines between fans & fans, fans & players, fans & manager, which look irreparable to me.

 

I reckon either CC will walk or the clamour for his head grows to such an extent he end up going and it all starts over again. One group have their chosen man, someone else gets the job, they hold a grudge until it starts to go pear shaped.  One group want a rampaging style manager, the other group demand results regardless of style, one of them doesn't get their way, they hold a grudge and start the same campaign that has been simmering against CC since he had the temerity to accept the job at S6 starts all over again.

 

 

 

I think the focus should be on the manager and players to show us what they're capable of and what the plan is rather than criticising the fans.

 

I groaned last night when Loovens hoof yet another aimless ball straight into touch when an easier ball was on. Our ball distribution and control at times is woeful, and i question whether the player is actually that good.

 

The crowd groaning isn't the problem.