We are broken and we have to fix ourselves

[SiJ]

Maybe, I think the point is, its the exeption not the rule & even with investment, we're never gonna be in a position to

buy promotion, but other teams have shown it can be done. I only mentioned it because it seem some of the LS critics want to jump on anything he says to justify their obvious disslike of the man. Like I keep saying theres nothing wrong

with having a difference of opinion but a group on here critisise his every decision and for me thats equaly as bad as

the brown tongueing they accuse others of.

After today people will believe that Iam completely anti-Strafford, which is fair enough because i've disagreed/questioned most things he's posted today.

I have my opinions on the direction of the club and what we need to achieve any real success. Unfortunately they probably fly in the face of Lee's Message (which i get regarding season ticket sales and so forth).

In saying that I'd rather have a chairman who cares (even if we clash), as opposed to certain individuals who were in the position of power before.

[tom]

I've lost faith, sorry Lee.

My reasoning? The investment fiasco - I've spent 14 months thinking about how investment is imminent, seven months pondering over a new, better hillsborough and the same amount of time thinking how, come may, I could be heading off to Wembley to see my beloved wednesday. What has happened? No investment, no improvement on the stadium and the club is hovering above the relegation zone.

I know things don't always go to plan; I've spent a large chunk of my life in hospital, at one point being told I had days to live, with my anorexia. Losing a "bit" of weight didn't go to plan (which was for a holiday), so I almost definitely know that things that you want to happen never do happen and that you have to "change the route to reach the destination", which can take time and I totally understand. But the lack of communication on important topics, as opposed to news on random topics is incoherent and confusing. For example:

- Stadium construction: Has gone very quiet.

- Investment: Looks to have gone down the pan. Your and NP's main reason for appointment of the chairman and CE posts at hillsborough. Yet, sports investors like Clark Hunt are on the prowl for an English football team, with the Hunt Sports group linked with buying Crystal Palace. Yet, they are in a much more precarious position than ourselves.

- Squad quality and the ability to buy new players: Yes, I understand the business model of "season tickets buys players and pays for wages", but it continuously being purged on a variety of local media niches annoys me, just because I've heard the same thing so many times.

I love how this website condemns anybody who happens to be against Strafford, yet few realise that owlstalk is a minority in comparison to the number of Wednesdayites out there. And you know what? There are plenty of fans who don't like Strafford - from the sporadic part-timers, to the executive box holders and even the university professors.

The latter aren't exactly "thick", as it's pretty damn hard and requires a fair bit of intelligence to become successful, even more so with the university professors, who are both PhD holders in specialist science fields. But because they don't believe in LS's ideology, owlstalk logic presumes them as thick, which obviously isn't true. For those wanting to call me a "fudder" - I pay £750 for my season ticket (north stand executive area), buy both home and away shirts along with sometimes going to away games.

This rant is nothing personal Lee, because you've tried hard and provided initiative to entice fans back to Hillsborough, whilst giving back to the community in a charitable fashion. However, I don't like you as the face of Sheffield Wednesday - posting on internet forums, promises that haven't materialised and the ability to criticise your own fans is enough. I'd also argue about your estimated wealth, but it isn't my business to divulge in money talk (I don't know enough and it isn't worth causing an argument).

End of rant

Tom

Edited February 27, 2010 by tom

[nippyowl]

Not sure, why trying to gain a deeper understanding as to why we aren't hitting our season ticket targets is 'pointless', but that said, I think I understand your disappointment.

I know the targets set by the club are challenging, but to me, if we can understand why people would rather spend their money on things more enjoyable, then we can begin to address the problem.

Sort of answered your own question there, if you are looking for joy then Wednesday is not for you. I suspect not much money is being spent by Wednesdayites on anything more enjoyable but it's always a good excuse isn't it?

[Guest Walkley_Owl]

Oh... I see..you can come on here and spout bile but are not going to do it at the match...or to his face ( by all accounts )..Why is that???

I couldn't make the meeting due to being out with my father, not that it is any of your concern, as for protesting, what is there to protest about, we have got our Wednesday back haven't we? the on the pitch performances are the only problem at the moment barring supporters apathy.

I've done my bit, I've bought in, early, getting others to do so is difficult with the current fare on the pitch.

Lee has his critics which most chairman do, fortunately or unfortunately however you care to look at it he's in a minority of chairman who openly engage with fans and cos of that finds himself open to pot shots, this board and others would be less lets say "controversial" and would have less WUM had Lee not made himself a target and open.

I fully support him as chairman even if sometimes I disagree with some of his ideas.

Edit. Dave, if I you reply and I don't respond I apologise, just setting off for Reading

Edited February 27, 2010 by Walkley_Owl

[torryowl]

I hope you slip while mopping your school and send the mop handle through your eye.

YOU TELL HIM MAX ......

[Guest davet30]

I've finally got it.

Lee, for heavens sake stop using Owlstalk as you get a completely distorted group of supporters who, if you keep reading what they say, will make you totally depressed.

You seem a reasonably/well educated chap but .... for the life of me I just can't see your hidden agenda??

Perhaps you could enlighten us all?

[RichSheffWeds]

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Nail on head.

The issue is either some people are not capable of trusting anyone.

Or

They are not capable of trusting the Chairman of SWFC.

Either way, everything I say and do is being twisted into something sinister by thousands of our fellow Wednesdayites.

Regards

Lee

Nope it was is and always will be the other way round. This is the way Football is now and despite rationalisation it will still be money driven. Thats the big thing so many do not get.

In the past you could build a team for nowt and then drive your crowds up and then carry on building. Now its the other way round just to get started.

Regards

Lee

It's been said already that you're preaching to the converted on here (the vast majority anyway).

You've got a very tough job. The core support will always turn up. Persuading the floating fan base to do the same is going to be a hard nut to crack.

It's not just about trust. For maybe 10,000 "fans", it's about SWFC becoming less important to them than it once was. It's about spending saturday afternoon with their families or playing golf with their mates etc instead. Why will people with that habit/mindset come back to watch this lot Lee?

They want to be entertained. They want to walk away feeling pride and with a smile on their face.

This is where the current model breaks down. They get a cheap ticket or they give SWFC another chance, turn up and watch mind dumbing garbage from the players. They think "what I am doing here?" It's crap.

Sorry but this is the mindset of thousands of people - I'm not sure how they can be converted.

I'd love to see 16k season ticket holders, I know it's chicken and egg. Get more fans buying in, get a bigger player budget, get better players etc. I've bought in - it's how do we get others to buy in - especially when the biggest influence on them when they turn up, the players, are without doubt under performing, even given our budget.

[Lee Strafford]

What I don't get is why anyone who question's anything is accused of holding the club back......I've been a season ticket holder for nearly 40 years, my son has recently started on the same journey and I often take his mates along whenever it's appropriate as well as cajoling a few part timers that I know and letting them know when there are any offers on....I attend nearly every event at Hillsborough, foundation lounge for some snap before every match......at 3 O'clock on a Saturday afternoon I do nothing but support the team and the players...yes even the ones who turn out in a scarf and gloves.

Yet as soon as you question anything that LS has done, you get accused of holding the club back and being negative......why is that then.....if LS tells me that the team are much better now than under Laws, what should I do, just nod and say "ok Lee, glad to hear that......I'll go and have a tenner on us winning 3-0 on Saturday".....if LS tells me (as he did last night) that Sunderland only got investment and money to spend on the team after they got in the prem, should I just take that on board and curse my memory for making me think Niall Quinn and his Irish money came in and brought Roy keane in when they were rock bottom of the championship?

The biggest problem LS has, is that his style on here is to abuse those of us who have already bought in to his plan.......we can moan as much as we want on here, but the fact is, the vast majority of us are on here because we care....and sad though it might seem, SWFC is one of the major things in our life, hence the amount of time we spend talking sh*t about them on here. Just wondering Lee if you'd ever thought of a slightly different style of "it's brilliant how much the fans are doing and how they are encouraging their mates to come along.....if we could just push that extra bit, we can really go places"

You're preaching to the converted on here.

Behaviour has a habit of breeding behaviour.....you want to stop negativity then stop posting it on here.

And yes, I did ask him a question to his face last night.....and I'd have asked him a few more to his face had he not done a runner once I'd cleaned up with the raffle

Ian

I did not day Sunderland got investment only when they got in the prem, I said all the clubs that were broken only got major investment after they had fixed themselves, picked themselves up and started the journey back up again. Examples being Wolves, Man City, Sunderland etc.

You (and others) haven't been asking questions you have been throwing hand grenades, questions look like this Ian, "can any one tell me why", "I really would like to understand", I want to buy in but I feel uncomfortable about", "I need to understand the following before I can buy in", "OK things are not great at the moment and I would like to understand why". This approach would not lead to aggressive responses.

This is a great example of a grown up and intellegent / articulate person just not listening because of the militant mindset they have.

Regards

Lee

[Lee Strafford]

I've lost faith, sorry Lee.

My reasoning? The investment fiasco - I've spent 14 months thinking about how investment is imminent, seven months pondering over a new, better hillsborough and the same amount of time thinking how, come may, I could be heading off to Wembley to see my beloved wednesday. What has happened? No investment, no improvement on the stadium and the club is hovering above the relegation zone.

I know things don't always go to plan; I've spent a large chunk of my life in hospital, at one point being told I had days to live, with my anorexia. Losing a "bit" of weight didn't go to plan (which was for a holiday), so I almost definitely know that things that you want to happen never do happen and that you have to "change the route to reach the destination", which can take time and I totally understand. But the lack of communication on important topics, as opposed to news on random topics is incoherent and confusing. For example:

- Stadium construction: Has gone very quiet.

- Investment: Looks to have gone down the pan. Your and NP's main reason for appointment of the chairman and CE posts at hillsborough. Yet, sports investors like Clark Hunt are on the prowl for an English football team, with the Hunt Sports group linked with buying Crystal Palace. Yet, they are in a much more precarious position than ourselves.

- Squad quality and the ability to buy new players: Yes, I understand the business model of "season tickets buys players and pays for wages", but it continuously being purged on a variety of local media niches annoys me, just because I've heard the same thing so many times.

I love how this website condemns anybody who happens to be against Strafford, yet few realise that owlstalk is a minority in comparison to the number of Wednesdayites out there. And you know what? There are plenty of fans who don't like Strafford - from the sporadic part-timers, to the executive box holders and even the university professors.

The latter aren't exactly "thick", as it's pretty damn hard and requires a fair bit of intelligence to become successful, even more so with the university professors, who are both PhD holders in specialist science fields. But because they don't believe in LS's ideology, owlstalk logic presumes them as thick, which obviously isn't true. For those wanting to call me a "fudder" - I pay £750 for my season ticket (north stand executive area), buy both home and away shirts along with sometimes going to away games.

This rant is nothing personal Lee, because you've tried hard and provided initiative to entice fans back to Hillsborough, whilst giving back to the community in a charitable fashion. However, I don't like you as the face of Sheffield Wednesday - posting on internet forums, promises that haven't materialised and the ability to criticise your own fans is enough. I'd also argue about your estimated wealth, but it isn't my business to divulge in money talk (I don't know enough and it isn't worth causing an argument).

End of rant

Tom

Well written which shows you are quite intellegent and yet complete garbage.

We said the stadium was grant driven, and anyone of you obvious intelligence would know that takes years.

Do you really think that ICS have not spoken to Mr Hunt????????!!!!!!!!!!! You have noticed lots of stories linking lots of people to football clubs this past years and yet vey few actually get done.

&

My personal wealth is in the public domain, before taxes and before buying the house I live in I made £3.2m from the sale of PlusNet. The net proceeds are funding cost of living for the rest of our lives.

Thanks for again proving the point I made in the OP, now please wake up and start acting like you did as a Wednesdayite 15-20 years ago.

Regards

Lee

[George]

now please wake up and start acting like you did as a Wednesdayite 15-20 years ago.

Hmm...

[Bob]

Lee

You have a habit of insulting the very people who are supporting the club with their hard earned money.

Many of my age group (over 60) are supportive of your drive and commitment to dragging our club back to where it was many years ago. They are not supportive of you ranting at fans on internet sites. It does you no good. It does the image of the club no good. It certainly angers loyal fans who have supported the club longer than you have existed.

Leave this site to the fans of all persuasions to praise, kick, moan, shout, applaud, rant about the day to day happenings of a great club as fans have done for many years.

[capetownowl]

It "was" not our fault.

We "were" the victims.

But its been over a year now and we are no longer being mislead by our club. We are no longer being taken advantage of. Yet far too many of us are behaving like the abuse victim that turns round and then becomes the abuser. As a consequence we are not backing this team (emotionally as well as financially) as it struggles through a tough season that management execution (absence of) created. Yet we have backed squads in the recent past that are nowhere near as good as the one we have today.

Our club will not progress until everyone moves on from the negativity that has seeped into our very bones this past 15 years or so.

Reality - We are a struggling championship club trying to lift ourselves financially, emotionally and by best practice up to being a strong championship club. We have the opportunity to do this because our fan base is large enough and the rest of football is melting down. We have a genuine opportunity, but only if we want to make it happen.

To do this will take us all adopting a positive yet pragmatic (not unrealistic) mindset.

To do this will take us all maintaining our football budget at £6m-£7m a year for a period long enough for AI to shape our squad and develop a new Wednesday football identity. Then we move forward again.

For us all not to want to make this happen would be insane, you would think. Yet so many just want to carry on the negativity and the mistrust and the infighting. This being behaviour that we were conditioned to by those wonderful people that created the problems at our club...................

Its time to wake up, the relegation battle effort needs us and the club being driven forward only happens if we all push in the same direction (emotionally and financially)

Lots of us have committed to moving forward (that's what keeps me going), but many are threatening to stop and many more have just not woken up still.

We all pull together and we can retain our position in this league and take the opportunity in front of us together.

We let this all unwind and I fear it will all end up a lot worse than 18 months ago.

Regards

Lee

Lee,

I have only read your opening post. I am tired of the merry go round.

Get a PR person employed NOW.

You are NOT getting the message across as much as you try. Even after a Year of banging on.

Time to spend some of the money we dont have in getting professional in to help you.

Edited February 27, 2010 by capetownowl

[Davidioso]

There are plenty of fans who don't like Strafford - from the sporadic part-timers, to the executive box holders and even the university professors.

The latter aren't exactly "thick", as it's pretty damn hard and requires a fair bit of intelligence to become successful, even more so with the university professors, who are both PhD holders in specialist science fields.

These damn PhD holding university professors in their specialist fields who aren't thick - not liking our Lee. I think Lee should go round to all their houses on a charm offensive.

[brian joicey]

Funny how you didn't go and address these points to Lee personally at last night's meeting wasn't it Glaser?

I guess you were probably busy, oh yeah...posting more attention seeking poo on Owsltalk.

Pathetic keyboard warrior.

summed up perfectly !!!! proper gobshite (via keyboard only)

[Lee Strafford]

No! I'll think you'll find your wrong.

Mark Robins saved his skin, then he went on to win things, thus creating a culture of positivity. Starting that season with the FA Cup.

Another great example here of people thinking I am offering my own "fan based" uninformed opinion. People then argue with me because of this and lack of trust issue.

Here is the rub though, I am actually sharing with you something which HW gleaned directly from his long time friend Mr Fergurson (snr). He gave me the information as part if the mentoring process as we learned all the key industry drivers of football.

So carry on arguing with me if you like but it ain't doing any good as it's just investing in staying in denial.

Regards

Lee

[Lee Strafford]

Lee,

I have only read your opening post. I am tired of the merry go round.

Get a PR person employed NOW.

You are NOT getting the message across as much as you try. Even after a Year of banging on.

Time to spend some of the money we dont have in getting professional in to help you.

CTO

Either you are just not listening or you are just plain dumb (don't think so) or you are being obtuse.

I have just successfully built, floated and sold a large consumer Internet business. Dealing with hundreds of thousands of pationate early adopter techies (they are bit mental like us footie fans). I have therefore spent the last 15 years working with some of the best PR people in the industry. We currently employ a top London PR firm. Every single aspect of the PR at the club has been driven by me. Openness, transparancy, right to complain, not hiding our mistakes, product development through dialogue, community, Childrens hospital etc.

I know what I am doing. Your discomfort with my approach is complete barking mad given the wider context and given the reality of our core issue.

If we were not so culturally and mentally broken I would not have to step into the middle of all this and put the mirror up to our collective faces.

The biggest problem we now face is our broken mentality and it must be fixed for us to move on.

In effect what you have just said is you are sick of it all not being fixed despite there only being a years work to turn round nearly 20 years of mismanagement with only the full backing of half our axtive fans. Think about it man.

Regards

Lee

Edited February 27, 2010 by Lee Strafford

[BIG D]

Ian

I did not day Sunderland got investment only when they got in the prem, I said all the clubs that were broken only got major investment after they had fixed themselves, picked themselves up and started the journey back up again. Examples being Wolves, Man City, Sunderland etc.

Regards

Lee

I thought that was how I had heard it.

Ian will apologise later no doubt for his mistake.

[madfan]

I've not read the whole thread, so apologies if it's been discussed aready, but playing devils advocate, I would ask a couple of questions.

I'm a lifelong Owl, love the club, but for whatever reason, I seem to have found other things to do with both my time and disposable income. To be honest, I enjoy the extra holiday I get a year, and the meals out etc etc , more than than a game at Hillsborough.

Why should I pay a large proportion of my disposable income, on something that offers me little or no enjoyment, to pay the wages of a group of players paid more in a week then most supporters earn in months, and who appear to not care for the club I love ?

We have here the nub of the problem,not with our club,but with the game.Perhaps the Portsmouth thing will start to ask the questions.

ALL players have been milking the supporters for too long. I blame the premiership firmly for this ,and the F.A. for allowing it to happen.

Players wages could be cut by half and they would still be payed too much. Lets have some realism back in the game.

[33]

Do you know how it is when a new song comes out that you think WOW, this is brill...

You go out and buy the CD or download the album and listen to it constantly...

You have your favourite track on repeat so you can learn the lyrics off by heart...

Even better when you've got into the music before all your mates and you watch with some self pride as they get in to 'your' music...

Then your favourite track is released as a single...

It starts to get plenty of airtime...

It hits number 1...

It is on every station, radio and tv...

It is on every day, every hour, every twenty minutes or so...

[WBridgfordowl]

CTO

Either you are just not listening or you are just plain dumb (don't think so) or you are being obtuse.

I have just successfully built, floated and sold a large consumer Internet business. Dealing with hundreds of thousands of pationate early adopter techies (they are bit mental like us footie fans). I have therefore spent the last 15 years working with some of the best PR people in the industry. We currently employ a top London PR firm. Every single aspect of the PR at the club has been driven by me. Openness, transparancy, right to complain, not hiding our mistakes, product development through dialogue, community, Childrens hospital etc.

I know what I am doing. Your discomfort with my approach is complete barking mad given the wider context and given the reality of our core issue.

If we were not so culturally and mentally broken I would not have to step into the middle of all this and put the mirror up to our collective faces.

The biggest problem we now face is our broken mentality and it must be fixed for us to move on.

In effect what you have just said is you are sick of it all not being fixed despite there only being a years work to turn round nearly 20 years of mismanagement with only the full backing of half our axtive fans. Think about it man.

Regards

Lee

Lee

I'm guessing you've never been weighed down by the burden of self-doubt?