We are broken and we have to fix ourselves

[NYCOWL]

All i can say for fact is that there are some real pre-madona's on here i'm off to serve our country in the army on monday kinda makes you realise just how small a fish we all are

Good luck mate.

[Chris_B_SWFC]

Get the results right on the pitch, and people will buy tickets.

Get the results wrong on the pitch, and people won't buy tickets.

It really is that simple, and it won't work any other way.

[Baldrick]

It's all in this this thread now guys, I really have nothing more to add.

Fingers crossed that we turn up and do justice to ourselves today!Regards

Lee

Ooh dear

If that's your definition of justice, dont forget to switch the lights off on your way out

[vulva]

Not listening to the game, but I presume we've got 4 or 5 bookings as our players battle for Championship survival?

[TodwickOwl]

Shambles.

We need to make our voices heard - that team needs to know how we feel as a group of supporters.

Turn on RS in the f*cking dressing room.

[DJMortimer]

This thread makes me feel very sad. Once again it has turned into a typical Owlstalk thread of in-fighting and re-hashing old arguments.

I have had issues with the club - I posted my opinions and thoughts on several occasions. Then I decided that I had made my point, I got it off my chest and then I moved on. I said that I wouldn't keep brining it up because it will cause the same arguments and debates over and over again.

Some of the post on this thread are the same old drivel. Some of the things in this thread are side issues that have been discussed to death else where. When do people (one example Glaser) decide to put the old debates to bed and give Lee and Nick a chance ?

It makes me more angry that we have been in worse positions than this and people said nothing. We were relegated from the Premier League with a shocking team, a mountain of debt and total mis-management, yet people sat back, said nothing and did nothing.

We went down to League One and nearly had our lowest league finish ever, yet thousands of fans still turned up. We were getting big crowds watching an abysmal team, far far worse that the players we have now.

What I don't get, is that previous people in charge of the club and team were given patience and support. Lee and Nick have done loads for this club in a short space of time, why not put and end to the petty digs and get behind the team.

The other person who deserves a chance is the team manager. We have given patience to many before him. Lets get behind him, give him a budget to work with and see what happens when he can bring in a few players of his own.

Its simple, turn up and support the team if you can. If you cant, for whatever reason, that's fine, but are your negative comments and digs at the club productive ?

Forward Together.

Spot on.

I also dont always agree with all that LS says on here or every decision made by him/the club, however I don't feel the

need for the digs etc from those that clearly have a personal disslike for LS.

The purpose of these type of rally cries are to convince the 'floating supporter' (for want of a better term) to buy in. If you don't agree with this method then fair enough. But surely as Owls you do agree with the aim? So instead of using it

as an oppertunity to have a dig at LS just be a bit more mature & let it go, instead why not help try to win over those

that are undecided on wheather or not to renew or buy a ST? Incresing the football budget is the only way we have a

chance to improve on the pitch.

Weather or not you like LS or agree with his every dcision, you cannot deny he wants the best for the club and

arguing with him being constantly negative. Jumping on every misstake he makes etc is not really helping is it?

I agree with both of you.

We're all entitled to question what's going on at our club, and I myself have had a rebuke from the chairman on one issue, but this endless hair-splitting and bitching from some posters who seemingly will not allow themselves to be anything other than a controversy ***** is deeply saddening. Personally, I think Mr Strafford has taken things a little too far on a number of occasions, but what good is the aggressive posturing in response doing for anyone? And despite repeatedly making his case in the clearest terms, we still have some moaning about him trying to force people with no money to buy a dozen season tickets, demanding he somehow force investors to plunge billions into the squad yesterday, making Francis Jeffers a Superman goal machine or some other such nonsense.

A perfect example is M Royds and his desperate crusade to establish what happened at Manchester United before Alex Ferguson started winning trophies. Two posters (one being the chairman himself of course) have apparently excellent sources, but that's not good enough for him - on and on and on he went. And for what? Does anyone really care that much about the ultimate outcome of this unseemly squabbling? Has he proved the chairman is a good for nothing liar who should be forensically challenged on every word of every statement he ever makes? What a waste of energy, and one that does him no favours.

Despite everything, I assume we can all agree that the chairman is busting his proverbials to do as much as possible for the club with little material gain for himself? Yet some who went before him, of whom this could not have been said, got a much easier ride for the most part. How ironic. It's as if Mr Strafford is now paying the price for their 'mistakes' as the realities of the last decade or more (which had nothing to do with him) are setting in amongst some of those who sat in silence or apathy as the club crumbled around them.

I will continue to be someone who thinks deeply (perhaps too much so ) and will question where I believe it is appropriate. In no way do I agree with everything the chairman says and as mentioned previously I think he sometimes takes his frustrations too far, but I'm just one of tens of thousands of supporters. The chairman doesn't owe me any more or less than anyone else. And I thank God that it's someone like him that's taken on this near-impossible task. Some judge him on a scale which only has two positions - 100% satisfaction or 'you're a liar, a crook, a cheat, an idiot, a bigmouth' or whatever and I am therefore entitled to be as rude and critical as they see fit. The relentless self-importance of these people is increasingly tiresome and counter-productive.

As for the players though...

Edited February 27, 2010 by DJMortimer

[RichSheffWeds]

Lee,

I know its very difficult to make comment about players attitude on here.

It seems to the casual/none committed fan base that it's the players mentality that's broken.I'm not being negative (I'm committed), I'm being honest - this perseption/reality is holding back fans returning to the club.

The example used on another thread is Palace players. Came here in the cup, not been paid and outfought us. We have players out of contract in summer who have been paid but APPEAR not to give a throw.

Like it or not, for a large section of the "fan base" this is a serious issue which p!sses them off and is doing the business plan no favours.

This sums it up. It's not the fans it's the players.

They are a total and utter disgrace.

Think Lee needs to use his inspirational techniques on this shower.

I just feel sick.

[M Royds]

I agree with both of you.

A perfect example is M Royds and his desperate crusade to establish what happened at Manchester United before Alex Ferguson started winning trophies. Two posters (one being the chairman himself of course) have apparently excellent sources, but that's not good enough for him - on and on and on he went. And for what? Does anyone really care that much about the ultimate outcome of this unseemly squabbling? Has he proved the chairman is a good for nothing liar who should be forensically challenged on every word of every statement he ever makes? What a waste of energy, and one that does him no favours.

Again, where did I accuse the Chairman of being an outright liar? I said he was wrong!

If you can offer sources where the changing of the fans mentally helped AF to win trophies then I'll accept what you say and the Chairman say.

Can I suggest you read AF autobiography which discusses the said topic and also how he is not afraid to challenge the Edwards when he feels he is wrong or not supportive.

You seem to imply that Mr Ince's direct quote is wrong?

I see that you are attempting to start a desperate crusade against me. At least in this post we are excused your selective use of facts and stats.

May I suggest that you channel your crusading in challenging the Chairman to find funds to help fight the relegation battle that has been manufactured at S6 rather than a tirade of nonsense in your attempt to prove one upmanship against other posters. Just think of yourself as being Fergie.

Look at today’s results and stop blaming the fans which is one of the sad aspects of being a Sheffield Wednesday fan.

[Guest totemowl]

Again, where did I accuse the Chairman of being an outright liar? I said he was wrong!

If you can offer sources where the changing of the fans mentally helped AF to win trophies then I'll accept what you say and the Chairman say.

Can I suggest you read AF autobiography which discusses the said topic and also how he is not afraid to challenge the Edwards when he feels he is wrong or not supportive.

You seem to imply that Mr Ince's direct quote is wrong?

I see that you are attempting to start a desperate crusade against me. At least in this post we are excused your selective use of facts and stats.

May I suggest that you channel your crusading in challenging the Chairman to find funds to help fight the relegation battle that has been manufactured at S6 rather than a tirade of nonsense in your attempt to prove one upmanship against other posters. Just think of yourself as being Fergie.

Look at today’s results and stop blaming the fans which is one of the sad aspects of being a Sheffield Wednesday fan.

Royds. You said the facts that he'd relayed from discussions between HW and AF were false, which is as good as saying he lied.

On that evidence you denied the validity of those sources.

And whenever anyone has a go at a negative post, you appear to champion the negative poster. But you ignore facts - or at best twiist them - when facts don't support your anti-authority stance.

And how will funds help fight the relegation battle? Here again, another Royds tactic, to try and transform one issue into something different.

You are what you are. You said what you said. But why the constant denials and spin?

[Essix Blue]

Get the results right on the pitch, and people will buy tickets.

Get the results wrong on the pitch, and people won't buy tickets.

It really is that simple, and it won't work any other way.

Spot on

(I'm tired of saying this)

Always has been - always will be.

[DJMortimer]

Again, where did I accuse the Chairman of being an outright liar? I said he was wrong!

Where did I say you had?

That's so ironic it's almost funny.

If you can offer sources where the changing of the fans mentally helped AF to win trophies then I'll accept what you say and the Chairman say.

Can I suggest you read AF autobiography which discusses the said topic and also how he is not afraid to challenge the Edwards when he feels he is wrong or not supportive.

You seem to imply that Mr Ince's direct quote is wrong?

I offered no opinion on the subject and still don't. I neither know nor care. It just seemed a good example to demonstrate what I was saying about some posters taking every possible opportunity to bait the chairman.

I see that you are attempting to start a desperate crusade against me.

That perception says much more about you than it does about me.

At least in this post we are excused your selective use of facts and stats.

Is this a reference to the thread where I expressed my opinions regarding what started last October and how it really was a sudden slump probably with some specific root(s)? If so, some felt they had been proven wrong due to the brief revival after Irvine arrived. My analysis doesn't look so flawed right now though.

May I suggest that you channel your crusading in challenging the Chairman to find funds to help fight the relegation battle that has been manufactured at S6 rather than a tirade of nonsense in your attempt to prove one upmanship against other posters.

Well stop over-analysing every bloody word he says and invariably arriving at the conclusion that he's wrong and seeking a dust-up with him.

Look at today’s results and stop blaming the fans which is one of the sad aspects of being a Sheffield Wednesday fan.

Again, your paranoia and/or ego has got the better of you. Where have I blamed fans for our current position? A paragraph ago you were (I think) ridiculing my suggestions that something behind the scenes had caused the players to throw their collective towel in and now I'm saying it's the fans to blame? Huh? I'm just asking some posters (and you are not even the worst offender) to stop assuming the chairman has a duty to satisfy their every single desire and aggressively bitching at him at every turn.

[LoOn]

Good luck mate.

Cheers and fingers crossed the club survives this mess of a season

[O_D_A]

Cheers and fingers crossed the club survives this mess of a season

Can you collect some IEDs and forward them to;

SWFC First Team 27/02/10

Hillsborough

Sheffield

S6 and that

Ta

[M Royds]

Royds. You said the facts that he'd relayed from discussions between HW and AF were false, which is as good as saying he lied.

On that evidence you denied the validity of those sources.

And whenever anyone has a go at a negative post, you appear to champion the negative poster. But you ignore facts - or at best twiist them - when facts don't support your anti-authority stance.

And how will funds help fight the relegation battle? Here again, another Royds tactic, to try and transform one issue into something different.

You are what you are. You said what you said. But why the constant denials and spin?

I suppose I will be the Glaser, Tonto, GHO, ect.

I said he was wrong and gave the link to the direct quote from Ince. So either the Governer is wrong or Mr Strafford is wrong. Nothing about him being a liar.

[Guest totemowl]

I suppose I will be the Glaser, Tonto, GHO, ect.

I said he was wrong and gave the link to the direct quote from Ince. So either the Governer is wrong or Mr Strafford is wrong. Nothing about him being a liar.

Now you are mixing two issues up.

First, Ferguson was 20 minutes away from the sack - a point I made earlier - and Robins saved him. Ince confirms this. I don't think LS referred to it at all.

Second, and I believe this is the point in question, another one that I'd raised earlier, AF did berate the Man United fans for not supporting the team, before Man United became successful in the 90's. This was then revealed as the subject of a discussion between HW and AF, that was then passed onto LS as part of his mentoring process.

Excuse the abbreviations but I'm using many of the abbreviations and wording that were used earlier in the thread.

[M Royds]

Where did I say you had?

I would re-read your post!

That's so ironic it's almost funny.

It would be but on LS watch we are thrird from bottom and deep in a relegation fight.

I offered no opinion on the subject and still don't. I neither know nor care. It just seemed a good example to demonstrate what I was saying about some posters taking every possible opportunity to bait the chairman.

Then why comment on my posts if you do not have an opinion?

That perception says much more about you than it does about me.

That's debatable. Out of all the posters on this thread you single me out and personaise it!

Is this a reference to the thread where I expressed my opinions regarding what started last October and how it really was a sudden slump probably with some specific root(s)? If so, some felt they had been proven wrong due to the brief revival after Irvine arrived. My analysis doesn't look so flawed right now though.

That's debatable!

Well stop over-analysing every bloody word he says and invariably arriving at the conclusion that he's wrong and seeking a dust-up with him.

He maybe should stop and think before he posts as all he is doing is causing division! Remember I am just a fan. My responsibility is to support my team, slag them off, cheer then, commit to them, have an opinion, whether that be right or wrong. I also try my best not to insult my peers and have never insulted the Chairman. I have broad shoulders and can take it but a lot of cutomers/fans do not appreciate his Gordon Gekko School of Charm approach. He is the Chairman of SWFC and the associated resposibilities the job entails. Look how many people have a cyber dust up with him?

I made a comment that AF won trophies to change opinion and he disputed my comment about AF turing the mindset of supporters and then implied that this happened before they won tropies. IMO I felt that he was wrong and wanted to challenge it.

Again, your paranoia and/or ego has got the better of you. Where have I blamed fans for our current position? A paragraph ago you were (I think) ridiculing my suggestions that something behind the scenes had caused the players to throw their collective towel in and now I'm saying it's the fans to blame? Huh? I'm just asking some posters (and you are not even the worst offender) to stop assuming the chairman has a duty to satisfy their every single desire and aggressively bitching at him at every turn.

I just feel that your having a dig at posters that do not tow the party line, such as you relentless comments about how good BL was, resources, nobody could do better, blah, blah, blah.

I take no pleasure in saying this but I feel that the tide of Wednesdayite Opinion is turning on Mr Strafford. It seem that his prophetic words are being tested. Also since his tenure the Club seem to be in freefall, or going backwards.

Do you not agree that the fickle nature Footie fans are is begining to turn on LS

[Guest totemowl]

I take no pleasure in saying this but I feel that the tide of Wednesdayite Opinion is turning on Mr Strafford. It seem that his prophetic words are being tested. Also since his tenure the Club seem to be in freefall, or going backwards.

Do you not agree that the fickle nature Footie fans are is begining to turn on LS

I always thought we were in freefall before his tenure. No chairman, small wage budget, lack of investment, lack of vision (e.g. club status), board focussed on downsizing. In those respects, Strafford has turn things round.

It's just the football side that seems to be in freefall now though. I know how important that is, but I think the previous crew would have taken us down anyway.

[Strewthbury Owl]

I suppose I will be the Glaser, Tonto, GHO, ect.

I said he was wrong and gave the link to the direct quote from Ince. So either the Governer is wrong or Mr Strafford is wrong. Nothing about him being a liar.

or you were wrong? or there is truth in all of it and its a mixture of all? You do come across as alarmingly smug at times Royds.

although by saying that, I suppose it means I'm building up a crusade against you as well?

EDIT:

Edited February 27, 2010 by Shrewsbury Owl

[M Royds]

Now you are mixing two issues up.

First, Ferguson was 20 minutes away from the sack - a point I made earlier - and Robins saved him. Ince confirms this. I don't think LS referred to it at all.

Second, and I believe this is the point in question, another one that I'd raised earlier, AF did berate the Man United fans for not supporting the team, before Man United became successful in the 90's. This was then revealed as the subject of a discussion between HW and AF, that was then passed onto LS as part of his mentoring process.

Excuse the abbreviations but I'm using many of the abbreviations and wording that were used earlier in the thread.

I haven't a clue what your point is?

This is how I see it. Before the now infamous Robins, Fergie attrated the attention of supporters, some were baying for head, banner were held aloft calling for his head. Man Utd were a club reknowed for sacking manager, there was even jokes about Man Utd sacking managers.

Robins did his magic, and if you believe many, many reports, Fergie was 20 minutes away from the sack. Its your choice whther you believe it or not.

Absolutely nothing about Fergie changing the mind set of supporter before he won trophies. Find me a link on this, PLEASE!!!!!!!!

[M Royds]

or you were wrong? or there is truth in all of it and its a mixture of all? You do come across as alarmingly smug at times Royds.

although by saying that, I suppose it means I'm building up a crusade against you as well?

EDIT:

Try telling that to the Chairman, I dare you!

BTW, if I come across as smug then there's nothing I can do about that, I feel I'm more glib and cynic. I do agree that I can be negative, but its the Wednesday way.