Here we go again

[Plonk]

25 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

You've come a long way since you posted in broken English about chicken shops.

 

Which is good to see. Obviously recovering well.Nice one. 

[matthefish2002]

As soon as I saw that the article was from the Daily Mail I knew some people were going to get side-tracked being self righteous about how much they hate the Daily Mail.

You might quibble over a few things in the article but I think in general it is true that a lot of the stadium and the running of the club on match day (Stewards, turnstiles) falls comfortably below a standard we should expect.

 

[Southie_Owl]

We all love Hillsborough,  but sadly it seems it won't ever be allowed to move on from those tragic events. 

 

I don't want to be controversial at all,  as have massive respect for those involved.   One thing i notice is how the Bradford City fire in 1985, where 56 spectators were tragically killed and at least 265 were injured, does not have anything like the same annual publicity.  Perhaps the size of the Liverpool fanbase and community plays a part in that. 

 

My honest opinion is that we would probably be best having a new modern stadium which would solve a lot of the issues,  and a memorial should be made a part of the deal to whoever we (Chansiri) sells the Hillsborough site to.   

 

[matthefish2002]

5 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

We all love Hillsborough,  but sadly it seems it won't ever be allowed to move on from those tragic events. 

 

I don't want to be controversial at all,  as have massive respect for those involved.   One thing i notice is how the Bradford City fire in 1985, where 56 spectators were tragically killed and at least 265 were injured, does not have anything like the same annual publicity.  Perhaps the size of the Liverpool fanbase and community plays a part in that. 

 

 

 

I think that does play its part why Hillsborough disaster is still more in the News that the Bradford Fire.
But also I think the aftermath of the Bradford Fire was less contentious and Hillsborough still gets a lot of news coverage for the way the Police and the Authorities dealt with the investigation in the years after.

[Southie_Owl]

3 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

I think that does play its part why Hillsborough disaster is still more in the News that the Bradford Fire.
But also I think the aftermath of the Bradford Fire was less contentious and Hillsborough still gets a lot of news coverage for the way the Police and the Authorities dealt with the investigation in the years after.

 

Indeed, i think this is why the stadium won't ever be able to fully move on.  Despite there being justice for the victims, it will always have these commentators talking about how the tragedy was badly managed.   Never mind how safe or not the stadium is now.  

[SiJ]

At the end of the day, when a lot of people hear the name "Hillsborough" they automatically will think about the disaster. 

 

And yes, I think that because it involved a huge, global club like Liverpool and that there was a significant cover up by the authorities only adds to that. 

[@owlstalk]

18 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

  One thing i notice is how the Bradford City fire in 1985, where 56 spectators were tragically killed and at least 265 were injured, does not have anything like the same annual publicity.   

 

The police, government and tabloids all lied about it - creating a huge huge scandal
They would have totally got away with it if it wasn't for the persistence of the Liverpool victims families and community.

Ps - Some people STILL trot out the stuff published by the tabloids at the time - even though it's been comprehensively proven as totally untrue

 

 

[Southie_Owl]

2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

At the end of the day, when a lot of people hear the name "Hillsborough" they automatically will think about the disaster. 

 

And yes, I think that because it involved a huge, global club like Liverpool and that there was a significant cover up by the authorities only adds to that. 

 

Yep, some Owls fans can keep saying we just need to ignore these commentators, but they aren't going to go away.  You can't erase the past and the wrongs that happened at the stadium and people involved at the time.    Our club really could do with a fresh start, new owner & new stadium.  

[Mr Meadows]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

That's true, but it's all on his watch now.

 

If that stuff about the North stand is true (thread on here), then we do have a promble.

 

The DM article is the usual tosh that you'd expect from that rag, but there's no denying that Hillsborough could do with a bit of tlc.

Problem with Hillsborough is apart from the north stand nothing else was done properly at the time

 it’s why we still have the leppings lane as it is. Instead of a complete rebuilt after the disaster we just put seats in the Lower and put on a new roof leaving the existing pillars and then adding more and did not address the concourse.

 the kop roof was not done properly either we built a cantilever 30 years early but to save money regressed with a poor design.

then when the south was done for euro 96 we failed again by just building on top of the existing stand which is why there’s no leg room and why we don’t have proper sized changing rooms and why the tunnel and dugouts aren’t on the half way  line 

[sheffield_dave]

44 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

We all love Hillsborough,  but sadly it seems it won't ever be allowed to move on from those tragic events. 

 

I don't want to be controversial at all,  as have massive respect for those involved.   One thing i notice is how the Bradford City fire in 1985, where 56 spectators were tragically killed and at least 265 were injured, does not have anything like the same annual publicity.  Perhaps the size of the Liverpool fanbase and community plays a part in that. 

 

My honest opinion is that we would probably be best having a new modern stadium which would solve a lot of the issues,  and a memorial should be made a part of the deal to whoever we (Chansiri) sells the Hillsborough site to.   

 

 

Valley Parade is unrecognisable now compared to when the disaster took place. As is Ibrox, as is Heysel. 

 

Hillsborough looks almost exactly the same. The Lepp is exactly the same. It makes it easy to highlight fault where any arises, regardless of how seriously you take it (personally I thought the thing with Newcastle was a load of guff, but it shows how easy stories like this take hold). The reality is that whilever the Lepp stands as it is, and as it was in 1989, then we're open to criticism and will be viewed as not doing enough.

 

As much as I loathe the Daily Mail, I also think it's worth highlighting that supporter safety impacts everybody. People have commented on this very forum, this season, that it feels like parts of the ground are massively underserved by reduced stewarding numbers (particularly the North). I'm pretty sure there was also something from earlier this season around the clubs safety certificate? The standards across all fronts at Hillsborough have absolutely plummeted recently and it seems like supporter safety is started to be impacted. I find that absolutely shocking for this club to play fast and loose with this stuff.. and I don't think we can complain if these things circle back to the disaster in the media. We can't escape it until there's dramatic changes.

Edited April 16 by sheffield_dave

[SiJ]

1 hour ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

Valley Parade is unrecognisable now compared to when the disaster took place. As is Ibrox, as is Heysel. 

 

Hillsborough looks almost exactly the same. The Lepp is exactly the same. It makes it easy to highlight fault where any arises, regardless of how seriously you take it (personally I thought the thing with Newcastle was a load of guff, but it shows how easy stories like this take hold). The reality is that whilever the Lepp stands as it is, and as it was in 1989, then we're open to criticism and will be viewed as not doing enough.

 

As much as I loathe the Daily Mail, I also think it's worth highlighting that supporter safety impacts everybody. People have commented on this very forum, this season, that it feels like parts of the ground are massively underserved by reduced stewarding numbers (particularly the North). I'm pretty sure there was also something from earlier this season around the clubs safety certificate? The standards across all fronts at Hillsborough have absolutely plummeted recently and it seems like supporter safety is started to be impacted. I find that absolutely shocking for this club to play fast and loose with this stuff.. and I don't think we can complain if these things circle back to the disaster in the media. We can't escape it until there's dramatic changes.

This is very true. 

 

 There is something to be said for the Daily Mail *shock* going for the low hanging fruit with this article, but then you have to ask yourself are we putting ourselves in that position. 

 

There have been countless threads on here over the last several months concerning the poor levels of security at Hillsborough among other things. 

 

No doubt we are giving the likes of Ian Herbert some of ammunition he wants. 

[Birstall Owl]

Forgetting issues with the rest of the ground I think at a bear minimum the Lepp should be pulled down and re-built, until that happens the events of that fateful day 35 years ago will be aimed at the club and rightly so.

We may not like it as it's our home stadium but the truth is it should have been changed.  

[Big Jack]

Stadium safety is paramount. The leppings lane should have been bulldozed after the tragedy. It will never go until either its revamped or we move to a new stadium.

I think like it or not a new stadium is a must now. Sadly we need owners who recognise the whole structure of the club , ground & training facilities need completely new beginnings.

 

 

[bigdan2003]

I agree with the comments about the Daily Racist paper. 
 

However, there are issues with the ground and stewarding that needs to be addressed. In the near decade he’s been here, what exactly has he done to improve it for fans? 
 

what’s he done to justify the price increases? What’s good about the south stand, that was last refurbished for Euro 96, that justifies nearly 800 quid season ticket price? 
 

. 

[nethertonowl]

17 hours ago, gypsyowl said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13310763/Thirty-five-years-horror-Hillsborough-tragedy-Mail-Sport-reveal-incredibly-stadium-not-fit-purpose-poor-stewarding-inadequate-turnstiles-problem-

 

tunnel.html

Says it all really Biography

 

 

Ian Herbert is a sportswriter for the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday. He began his career in Liverpool in 1989, where he was both a news and football reporter, and became deputy editor of Liverpool Daily Post before leaving in 1999 for The Independent, where he worked in news and sports journalism for 18 years. As a football reporter on the Post, he covered the managerial era of Graeme Souness, at the beginning of Liverpool’s decades-long struggle to retain the standards of the great Bob Paisley days. @ianherbs

[BIG D]

21 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

Says it all really Biography

 

 

Ian Herbert is a sportswriter for the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday. He began his career in Liverpool in 1989, where he was both a news and football reporter, and became deputy editor of Liverpool Daily Post before leaving in 1999 for The Independent, where he worked in news and sports journalism for 18 years. As a football reporter on the Post, he covered the managerial era of Graeme Souness, at the beginning of Liverpool’s decades-long struggle to retain the standards of the great Bob Paisley days. @ianherbs

Proper full bingo card there 

[Pughies Jockstrap]

8 hours ago, Plonk said:

Actually be may have hit on a point...albeit the wrong one.

If you research it, then it's well documented that prior to MM you could not get onto the board of SWFC without being a mason.

Now before you start, I am  definitely not saying there is a conspiracy against the club.

Just that there was at the time of the disaster, and for most of our history there was a very strong link.

It was also alleged that the day after the disaster,  a meeting took place at Hammerton Road police station, of some " very prominent members".

 

I can say with absolute 100 per cent certainty that your bottom line is absolute and utter tosh.

[archieswfc]

Can someone please summarise. I refuse to click on a link to that vile, horrible, racist scum rag. 

[Ante's Bubbly]

13 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

The police, government and tabloids all lied about it - creating a huge huge scandal
They would have totally got away with it if it wasn't for the persistence of the Liverpool victims families and community.

Ps - Some people STILL trot out the stuff published by the tabloids at the time - even though it's been comprehensively proven as totally untrue

 

 

 

There was a lot of rubbish spouted at the time and I see there is still a lot of rubbish being spouted now. I would not be at all surprised if the the dodgy hand shake gang were involved in our club, the police force etc and a lot of us who were in the Hillsborough area know what went on in the pubs building up to the kick off, we know what went off in some of Hillsborough shops and supermarkets because we were there and witnessed it, or know people that did. That is how s9 many local people know what went on, not hearing landlords blatantly lying on tv and in the papers, not hearing about stuff from some unknown person who knew some other unknown person like we read too often on here! Its surprising how so many people who know nothing have such a lot to say and at least two friends/relatives who were there have never said a word about it. That day was horrendous and quite honestly there were people from all cross sections if society that suffered, got stuck in and helped, but there were also a lot of people, Liverpool fans included who did feel a sense of guilt on that day and still do, because there are many things that could have happened differently but didn't. It was a terrible accident, but it had been waiting to happen and attitudes of the day contributed so much to it. Thankfully most people these days have more sense. 

[Wynyard Owl]

13 hours ago, Southie_Owl said:

We all love Hillsborough,  but sadly it seems it won't ever be allowed to move on from those tragic events. 

 

I don't want to be controversial at all,  as have massive respect for those involved.   One thing i notice is how the Bradford City fire in 1985, where 56 spectators were tragically killed and at least 265 were injured, does not have anything like the same annual publicity.  Perhaps the size of the Liverpool fanbase and community plays a part in that. 

 

My honest opinion is that we would probably be best having a new modern stadium which would solve a lot of the issues,  and a memorial should be made a part of the deal to whoever we (Chansiri) sells the Hillsborough site to.   

 

There was talk of our neighbours. Utilising the old Norton  air craft site

ive not been near there so can’t really pass an opinion but I have to ask. Is that a suitable area on which to build a football ground (genuine question)

I prefer Hillsborough. To be built in sections As an an area is demolished and rebuilt,  Demolish the next  section and  rebuild the stadium on its present land area  until the stadium is complete