Nando Number Ten

[oldishowl]

38 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

I assume I am one of your flat-earthers.

 

Its not even about opinions is it? To say “I think FF is better wide than striker” is opinion. To say “FF and the team score far more goals and take far more points when he is played wide rather than striker” is fact.

 

Flat-earthers were denyers of fact. You have it the wrong way round.

 

As for his effectiveness as a No 10 - we don’t know yet. Lets hope so, as Bruce looks like playing him there.

 

But you have changed your argument and hoped nobody noticed.

 

You originally thought anything other than 442 was the spawn of the devil and argued that FF had to play wide left in a 442.

 

It was pointed out to you that he had very rarely started wide left in a 442.

Also  when he was moved successfully to the left later in games ,which was often , we actually played 433 because we always brought an extra striker on.

You didn’t accept any of this.

 

Now you continually refer to his best position as wide striker which is what some of us have argued from the start. 

 

Welcome me to the club 

[pgmetcalf]

On 05/02/2019 at 09:42, beloved_aunt said:

Was Saturday the first time that FF has played a whole game for us as a number ten?  

 

No, he plays number 45 ...

[Holmowl]

2 hours ago, oldishowl said:

 

But you have changed your argument and hoped nobody noticed.

 

You originally thought anything other than 442 was the spawn of the devil and argued that FF had to play wide left in a 442.

 

It was pointed out to you that he had very rarely started wide left in a 442.

Also  when he was moved successfully to the left later in games ,which was often , we actually played 433 because we always brought an extra striker on.

You didn’t accept any of this.

 

Now you continually refer to his best position as wide striker which is what some of us have argued from the start. 

 

Welcome me to the club 

 

Nope you are misreading me.

 

Unequivocably - imo his best role for our team is wide left in a 442. 

 

Unequivocably - imo we are best suited to 442 (though never with FF as one of the strikers)

 

If our manager plays a 433 or similar, without wingers, then imo FF is best for the team as a wide forward.

 

 

[oldishowl]

26 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

Nope you are misreading me.

 

Unequivocably - imo his best role for our team is wide left in a 442. 

 

Unequivocably - imo we are best suited to 442 (though never with FF as one of the strikers)

 

If our manager plays a 433 or similar, without wingers, then imo FF is best for the team as a wide forward.

 

 

 

Well we definitely disagree then.

 

Were FF asked to play on the left of a proper 442, which he has done only a handful of times for us ,then I am pretty certain how it would end.

 

He would not consistently do the necessary organisational and defensive duties, he would end up on the subs bench as our super sub. He would not be happy and trouble would start.

 

As I said two years ago about this.

It is so certain to end in disaster I would sell him ASAP rather than play him in that position.

 

It is not complicated. If Bruce wants to play 442 long term and FF isn’t good enough in the 2 we should get rid because the alternative ain’t worth the angst.

[Beholder]

Nando is good but he is greedy

 

So he makes us better and worse at the same time.

 

 

 

 

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, Beholder said:

Nando is good but he is greedy

 

So he makes us better and worse at the same time.

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure he always has the confidence that, if he makes a pass, he’ll get it back This is one of my issues about the partnership with Fletcher. Forestieri is a clever player, whose game is more pass and move, rather than looking for knock downs and flick ons

[Blatter]

On 05/02/2019 at 11:33, gurujuan said:

He’s the only player who can play the ten role He knows how to play in between the lines

Fernando is pretty much an unknown quantity as a number 10 whereas Gary Hooper was playing that role superbly until his injury.  

 

Fernando will have his work cut out to make that position his own ‘cos Hooper is just a couple of weeks away from playing according to Bruce.

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, Blatter said:

Fernando is pretty much an unknown quantity as a number 10 whereas Gary Hooper was playing that role superbly until his injury.  

 

Fernando will have his work cut out to make that position his own ‘cos Hooper is just a couple of weeks away from playing according to Bruce.

Agree he’s a very good number 10, but he’s not as mobile as Forestieri. He’d need the right player ahead of him, someone who was quick, both in thought, and actions

[oldowl67]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

Nope you are misreading me.

 

Unequivocably - imo his best role for our team is wide left in a 442. 

 

Unequivocably - imo we are best suited to 442 (though never with FF as one of the strikers)

 

If our manager plays a 433 or similar, without wingers, then imo FF is best for the team as a wide forward.

 

 

Can’t agree with this and haven’t seen anything in his time here to give the slightest indication that FF should be asked to play left side midfield in a 442. What a waste of a player who does his best work in the oppositions half. Why would you even consider playing him there with all the defensive duties that job demands? 

[Holmowl]

16 minutes ago, oldowl67 said:

Can’t agree with this and haven’t seen anything in his time here to give the slightest indication that FF should be asked to play left side midfield in a 442. What a waste of a player who does his best work in the oppositions half. Why would you even consider playing him there with all the defensive duties that job demands? 

 

Simple answer.

 

Because he scores and creates more goals, the team scores more goals, and we get more points per game when he plays wide left.

[oldowl67]

We’ll have to agree to disagree because I’m with Oldishowl on this, if we play 442 FF only plays as one of the 2, but this is not the ideal formation for his game. Hopefully though SB will find away to play       that gives him the free role that some of us think will get the best out of him.

[Hookowl]

1 hour ago, Blatter said:

Fernando is pretty much an unknown quantity as a number 10 whereas Gary Hooper was playing that role superbly until his injury.  

 

Fernando will have his work cut out to make that position his own ‘cos Hooper is just a couple of weeks away from playing according to Bruce.

 

Hope this is true, I thought he'd said a couple of weeks away from first team training though ?

[Blatter]

4 minutes ago, oldowl67 said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree because I’m with Oldishowl on this, if we play 442 FF only plays as one of the 2, but this is not the ideal formation for his game. Hopefully though SB will find away to play       that gives him the free role that some of us think will get the best out of him.

Bruce has already made his opinion clear on this. He believes he’s a number 10.

He‘s rarely played that position for Wednesday so there’s little evidence to say he scores more playing wide left than as a 10.

 

Problem with playing him left midfield in 4-4-2 is that he needs to be willing to track back to cover the full back. He just doesn’t do that consistently throughout a game.

[Blatter]

5 minutes ago, Hookowl said:

 

Hope this is true, I thought he'd said a couple of weeks away from first team training though ?

We all know that 2 Wednesday weeks are different to calendar weeks I suppose.

[York_Owl]

11 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

I assume I am one of your flat-earthers.

 

Its not even about opinions is it? To say “I think FF is better wide than striker” is opinion. To say “FF and the team score far more goals and take far more points when he is played wide rather than striker” is fact.

 

Flat-earthers were denyers of fact. You have it the wrong way round.

 

As for his effectiveness as a No 10 - we don’t know yet. Lets hope so, as Bruce looks like playing him there.

The problem with this argument is that you’re basing fact on flawed statistics. Forestieri mainly played wide left at home when we adopted a more attacking approach and played up front away from home when we setup much more defensively often with three central midfielders playing in a narrow 4-4-2.

 

As an absolute minimum you would need to compare when he played wide left away from home v central away from home and then do the same for home games for these stats to having any real meaning.

 

I definitely agree with Steve Bruce in that Forestieri should be played in the number ten role. That’s one piece of the puzzle; now for the rest of the pieces!

[Holmowl]

11 minutes ago, York_Owl said:

The problem with this argument is that you’re basing fact on flawed statistics. Forestieri mainly played wide left at home when we adopted a more attacking approach and played up front away from home when we setup much more defensively often with three central midfielders playing in a narrow 4-4-2.

 

As an absolute minimum you would need to compare when he played wide left away from home v central away from home and then do the same for home games for these stats to having any real meaning.

 

I definitely agree with Steve Bruce in that Forestieri should be played in the number ten role. That’s one piece of the puzzle; now for the rest of the pieces!

 

If you want like for like, cast your mind back.

 

Try to recall our exhilarating home games. 

 

Norwich 5-1

Norwich 5-1

Brentford 4-0

Wolves 4-1

Carfiff 3-0

 

He played wide left.

 

Think of games that were going really badly but we turned them round when we swapped him from striker to wide left.

 

Udders 3-1 (from 0-1 down when he swapped)

Charlton 3-0 (from 0-0)

 

He’s a magnificent player. He just isn’t a striker. Whether he thinks he is or not. 

 

But hey, Bruce will do what Bruce will do. And his record is excellent.  He will make the most of a very fine player, I’m pretty sure. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Holmowl

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

If you want like for like, cast your mind back.

 

Try to recall our exhilarating home games. 

 

Norwich 5-1

Norwich 5-1

Brentford 4-0

Wolves 4-1

Carfiff 3-0

 

He played wide left.

 

Think of games that were going really badly but we turned them round when we swapped him from striker to wide left.

 

Udders 3-1 (from 0-1 down when he swapped)

Charlton 3-0 (from 0-0)

 

He’s a magnificent player. He just isn’t a striker. Whether he thinks he is or not. 

 

But hey, Bruce will do what Bruce will do. And his record is excellent.  He will make the most of a very fine player, I’m pretty sure. 

In that Norwich game, he played in a front three with Nuhiu and Joao. Their movement in that game was very good, with Fernando attacking right, left, and down the middle Didn’t he score his goal centrally after cutting in from the right

[Owls-Fan]

I see Forestieri as being the Alexis Sanchez of the championship. So his best position is playing somewhere behind the striker in a 4231 system. But I wouldn’t object to 433 either. 

 

Hopefully Bruce can get the best out of him. Something like the below might be the way forward 

 

              Westwood 

Iorfa    Lees      Hector   Lazaar

       Hutchinson  Bannan 

    Reach  Forestieri  Aarons

                   Joao 

 

 

[Southie_Owl]

9 hours ago, Owls-Fan said:

I see Forestieri as being the Alexis Sanchez of the championship. So his best position is playing somewhere behind the striker in a 4231 system. But I wouldn’t object to 433 either. 

 

Hopefully Bruce can get the best out of him. Something like the below might be the way forward 

 

              Westwood 

Iorfa    Lees      Hector   Lazaar

       Hutchinson  Bannan 

    Reach  Forestieri  Aarons

                   Joao 

 

 

 

Agree with this, depending on the new boys being as good as we hope. It’s only Fletcher who would be hard to drop. 

FF & Joao can be unplayable when they are at their best (not unselectable) 

[theowlsman]

I love listening to Steve Bruce. He actually knows what he is doing.