HIGHERSTATE Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Beholder said: Nando is good but he is greedy So he makes us better and worse at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, theowlsman said: I love listening to Steve Bruce. He actually knows what he is doing. He does seem to tell it like it is or how he sees it. I remember when we turned his Hull side over when under Dave Jones, when we played with ‘no strikers.’ Bruce was going on about how unlucky they’d been and then stopped himself and said summat like ‘if you believe that you’ll believe owt as we were outplayed’ On a side note I think the local reporters could ask more than the usual standard questions and get proper answers from Bruce. I’d have loved one of them to press him more on why and how he thinks he’s going to get FF playing the ten role. Stuff like mentioning FF’s good displays on the left and how he doesn’t link with players when he’s played centrally before. Bruce’s answers could be quite an education for us that are interested in the finer detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldowl67 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I’m confused by this idea that some posters repeat time and again that FF is poor as a forward in a 442. While I believe it’s not the ideal role to suit his attributes weren’t most of his appearances in 2015-16 (his best season) alongside Hooper. The midfield that season included appearances from Wallace, Hutchinson, Lee, Bannan, Lopez, Matias, McGeady, and McGugan and I don’t recall FF ever playing left midfield in a 442. Mobile forwards like FF know how to find space and vulnerable defenders and if that involves drifting out wide then that is what they will do. FF does it to great effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldowl67 said: I’m confused by this idea that some posters repeat time and again that FF is poor as a forward in a 442. While I believe it’s not the ideal role to suit his attributes weren’t most of his appearances in 2015-16 (his best season) alongside Hooper. The midfield that season included appearances from Wallace, Hutchinson, Lee, Bannan, Lopez, Matias, McGeady, and McGugan and I don’t recall FF ever playing left midfield in a 442. Mobile forwards like FF know how to find space and vulnerable defenders and if that involves drifting out wide then that is what they will do. FF does it to great effect. If you go back to the MANY threads on this subject during those days you will find:- He Scored more goals from wide left than from striker, despite playing over 3 x more often as a striker. Our record with a Hooper-FF front two was dire. It turned two good goal-scorers into a near barren partnership. Staggeringly few goals. The team’s form with FF striker was mid-table. With him wide left it was record-breaking. Our team record with FF striker is less than one goal per game....if you think about nothing else, think about that! Edited February 7, 2019 by Holmowl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldowl67 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Holmowl said: If you go back to the MANY threads on this subject during those days you will find:- He Scored more goals from wide left than from striker, despite playing over 3 x more often as a striker. Our record with a Hooper-FF front two was dire. It turned two good goal-scorers into a near barren partnership. Staggeringly few goals. The team’s form with FF striker was mid-table. With him wide left it was record-breaking. Our team record with FF striker is less than one goal per game....if you think about nothing else, think about that! You say that but the 2015-16 season would seem to contradict your argument. That said the whole team played a much more offensively that season which helped FF and Hooper, whereas in the following seasons the forwards were much more isolated as CC changed to a more cautious approach. I agree that FF is effective attacking in wide areas, I just don’t agree that it’s as a midfielder in a 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just now, oldowl67 said: You say that but the 2015-16 season would seem to contradict your argument. That said the whole team played a much more offensively that season which helped FF and Hooper, whereas in the following seasons the forwards were much more isolated as CC changed to a more cautious approach. I agree that FF is effective attacking in wide areas, I just don’t agree that it’s as a midfielder in a 442. It was mainly the 15/16 season I was referring to. Really, go back and look for yourself. Our results and goals with FF striker in that season we’re not great. By contrast, when he went wide, we became Barca. Think of the games you most enjoyed. Think of the games we scored bagfuls. Think of the games with great come-backs...you tell me and I will point out how we set up. You will get a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The only problem with referencing anything from CC’s first season is imo how we generally changed tactics at half time following the conservative first half approach. Pudil and Hunt would push high and wide up the pitch, Hutch would almost become a third centre back and then you’d get all sorts of movement between the lines from the midfield and forwards...we must have been a right nightmare to play against when we were on it as we were so fluid with players popping up all over the place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldowl67 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I agree completely but it also supports my argument in a way because at no time in that season did FF play wide left in a midfield 4. As you say second half tactics definitely helped the forwards that season especially when (dare I say it ) Nuhiu was also on the pitch with FF & Hooper- the comeback at Birmingham springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyTrev Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Holmowl said: It was mainly the 15/16 season I was referring to. Really, go back and look for yourself. Our results and goals with FF striker in that season we’re not great. By contrast, when he went wide, we became Barca. Think of the games you most enjoyed. Think of the games we scored bagfuls. Think of the games with great come-backs...you tell me and I will point out how we set up. You will get a shock. The majority of those games, Nando started up front, we either fell behind or were drawing until quite late on and then Carlos "threw the meat on the fire", we threw an extra striker on and threw caution to the wind meaning that Forestieri wasn't having to track back and cover for the full back and instead was playing more like a wide forward on the left. Look at the following season however when he was starting a lot of matches as an out and out left winger and his performances were largely disappointing. If you start with Fessi on the left wing, he is wasted. I'm so glad Steve Bruce sees this. Playing him in the number 10 role, giving him the freedom to go out and enjoy his football could be a master stroke and something I have been hoping we'd do for the last couple of seasons now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimisticowl Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 05/02/2019 at 09:53, McRightSide said: FF just needs one instruction...go and cause havoc Reminds me of a Matt Busby pre match quote, that went something like this. “ Bob, try to stay left sided, Dennis, don’t get dragged back, hold a high line, George, just go out and enjoy yourself son”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, optimisticowl said: Reminds me of a Matt Busby pre match quote, that went something like this. “ Bob, try to stay left sided, Dennis, don’t get dragged back, hold a high line, George, just go out and enjoy yourself son”. Did George go straight to the boozer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimisticowl Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Walt said: Did George go straight to the boozer? I recall a night match at Hillsborough when you could have been forgiven for thinking that he’d been in one all afternoon, both he and the rest of the team matched us for boredom, that is until 70 minutes when George woke up, we lost 0-2, he bagged both goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci91 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Holmowl said: It was mainly the 15/16 season I was referring to. Really, go back and look for yourself. Our results and goals with FF striker in that season we’re not great. By contrast, when he went wide, we became Barca. Think of the games you most enjoyed. Think of the games we scored bagfuls. Think of the games with great come-backs...you tell me and I will point out how we set up. You will get a shock. On the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Thought he had a strange game today, can't remember him ever being so unselfish. Most of my concerns about him playing the no.10 were about him being greedy and choosing the wrong option. He seemed to go totally the other way today, too much the other way - always looking for the pass and not trying the individual stuff when those options would have been better. Wonder if he was trying too hard to carry out Bruce's instructions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronio Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 12:27, TrickyTrev said: The majority of those games, Nando started up front, we either fell behind or were drawing until quite late on and then Carlos "threw the meat on the fire", we threw an extra striker on and threw caution to the wind meaning that Forestieri wasn't having to track back and cover for the full back and instead was playing more like a wide forward on the left. Look at the following season however when he was starting a lot of matches as an out and out left winger and his performances were largely disappointing. If you start with Fessi on the left wing, he is wasted. I'm so glad Steve Bruce sees this. Playing him in the number 10 role, giving him the freedom to go out and enjoy his football could be a master stroke and something I have been hoping we'd do for the last couple of seasons now. Agree 100%. Number 10 role is Fernando in a nutshell. He is a bit off the pace at the moment. Has been a stop start all season. Needs minutes on the pitch to get back up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I hate it when he tracks back..I found it odd today that he rarely tried to turn with one defender on him...but gave it a couple of goes just outside our box with two attackers on him... Its f.ookin' nonsense isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Walt said: Thought he had a strange game today, can't remember him ever being so unselfish. Most of my concerns about him playing the no.10 were about him being greedy and choosing the wrong option. He seemed to go totally the other way today, too much the other way - always looking for the pass and not trying the individual stuff when those options would have been better. Wonder if he was trying too hard to carry out Bruce's instructions? Quite the opposite I thought. Bruce was on at him all first half to sit higher up the field. As always he dropped deeper and deeper. Someone used to show those heat-map thingies on here. I think if you compare FF’s heat-maps when he plays striker or wide left you wouldn’t see very little difference. He drops naturally into that deep left pocket to pick the ball up. Doesnt work imo. He’s a brilliant winger in a 442, a very good wide forward in a 433, and a poor striker in a two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoadABallacks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Might be still lacking match fitness but he was bobar today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Just now, Holmowl said: Quite the opposite I thought. Bruce was on at him all first half to sit higher up the field. As always he dropped deeper and deeper. Someone used to show those heat-map thingies on here. I think if you compare FF’s heat-maps when he plays striker or wide left you wouldn’t see very little difference. He drops naturally into that deep left pocket to pick the ball up. Doesnt work imo. He’s a brilliant winger in a 442, a very good wide forward in a 433, and a poor striker in a two. We both agree that no.10 or striker hasn't been his best position, left of a front three is my prefered position for him but seeing that Bruce is going to give him a run in the 10 role then there's no point in banging on about it. I think the we have got to look at what, if anything Bruce is going to do with him to get him to be a success there. FF's performance stuck out because I have never seen him so unselfish. That was no coincidence in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanye West Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Really weren’t at it today, I’ve never seen him with his back to goal so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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