Perspective - This is a Major Rebuild & Jos Needs Time

[Utah Owl]

Just looking at all the crazy threads on Jos and who should be playing etc. etc.

 

We have an old squad many of whom are suffering from long term injury issues and loss of form. For example:

 

Westwood - now age 34 and had an horrendous season last year with injury and loss of form resulting in him being out of action for the last 12 months

 

Jones - Also aged 34, hasn't played for the side this season and prior to that only featured in half the games

 

Lee - Now aged 30 and is basically (sadly finished due to injury. Has played only intermittently since the 15/16 season and not at all for 12 months

 

Fletcher - Great player but has had injury issues (only 19 appearances last season) and rumoured to be on the highest wage at the club. Will be 32 in March

 

Hooper - Fantastic when available (which since he signed for us sadly hasn't been that often) - only featured in half the games the last two seasons an none this . 31 in January

 

Boyd - Never been able to pin down a regular slot. 20 games last season just one so far this. Already aged 33

 

Abdi - Aged 32 seemingly always injured

 

Hutchinson - Injury prone and reckless hasn't even managed half the games in 4 and a half seasons. 29 and rumours surfacing (on here) as a very difficult character to manage

 

Pudil - Solid and reliable but at 33 how long can he keep going for?

 

Forestieri - 29 in January but temperamental and an  unsettling influence (his no show two seasons ago over pay - even Dingle Mick says he would have got rid for that).

 

These are all players that need to be moved on somehow. It's for the long term benefit of the club and regardless of who the manager is they have got a hell of a job on their hands.

 

Joe does have a reputation for being a very strict disciplinarian and giving youth a chance in order to build a team. Regardless of his team selections he does seem to be sticking by his team selections and I think he deserves the chance to carry on for a couple of seasons.

 

Effectively we are in the same situation as we were following relegation from the EPL. Overpaid, injured and under motivated older players needing to be moved on from a club that was hamstrung with money issues. We tried umpteen managers then who struggled due to the constraints one of whom (Jewell) was a success immediately before and after leaving Hillsborough.

 

Joe is not to blame for the current problems we have with an ageing team on stupid contracts who have all manner of injury, form and motivation issues. Give him a proper chance!

 

Even if Jos goes, the new guy is going to face the same issues, this is a long term job and it's going to take two or three seasons to get back on track.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Utah Owl

[prowl]

Joe?

[RichSheffWeds]

5 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

Just looking at all the crazy threads on Jos and who should be playing etc. etc.

 

We have an old squad many of whom are suffering from long term injury issues and loss of form. For example:

 

Westwood - now age 34 and had an horrendous season last year with injury and loss of form resulting in him being out of action for the last 12 months

 

Jones - Also aged 34, hasn't played for the side this season and prior to that only featured in half the games

 

Lee - Now aged 30 and is basically (sadly finished due to injury. Has played only intermittently since the 15/16 season and not at all for 12 months

 

Fletcher - Great player but has had injury issues (only 19 appearances last season) and rumoured to be on the highest wage at the club. Will be 32 in March

 

Hooper - Fantastic when available (which since he signed for us sadly hasn't been that often) - only featured in half the games the last two seasons an none this . 31 in January

 

Boyd - Never been able to pin down a regular slot. 20 games last season just one so far this. Already aged 33

 

Abdi - Aged 32 seemingly always injured

 

Hutchinson - Injury prone and reckless hasn't even managed half the games in 4 and a half seasons. 29 and rumours surfacing (on here) as a very difficult character to manage

 

Pudil - Solid and reliable but at 33 how long can he keep going for?

 

Forestieri - 29 in January but temperamental and an  unsettling influence (his no show two seasons ago over pay - even Dingle Mick says he would have got rid for that).

 

These are all players that need to be moved on somehow. It's for the long term benefit of the club and regardless of who the manager is they have got a hell of a job on their hands.

 

Joe does have a reputation for being a very strict disciplinarian and giving youth a chance in order to build a team. Regardless of his team selections he does seem to be sticking by his team selections and I think he deserves the chance to carry on for a couple of seasons.

 

Effectively we are in the same situation as we were following relegation from the EPL. Overpaid, injured and under motivated older players needing to be moved on from a club that was hamstrung with money issues. We tried umpteen managers then who struggled due to the constraints one of whom (Jewell) was a success immediately before and after leaving Hillsborough.

 

Joe is not to blame for the current problems we have with an ageing team on stupid contracts who have all manner of injury, form and motivation issues. Give him a proper chance!

 

Even if Jos goes, the new guy is going to face the same issues, this is a long term job and it's going to take two or three seasons to get back on track.

 

Waste of time on here talking sense.

 

Of course patience is needed but its a rare commodity amongst football fans.

[Sham67]

Cobblers.   We want it all and we want it now.

[torres]

Yes we are rebuilding and yes we have limited resources to do so currently BUT if this was an actual building we would still be a bunch of materials and Jos would have changed the plans 30 times. 

 

Any forward step we make in a month we take 3 back the following month. 

 

Are we any better after 1 year and a full pre season in charge? 

 

 

[Pastor Kidneys]

Nothing to do with personnel - even with the under 18s playing he could at least try and win a game?

 

his tactics are shocking and he had zero intention of trying to win the game.

 

remind me again but I thought this game was about entertainment?

 

none of that from the Dutch master tactician.

 

get rid!

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, erowl said:

Nothing to do with personnel - even with the under 18s playing he could at least try and win a game?

 

his tactics are shocking and he had zero intention of trying to win the game.

 

remind me again but I thought this game was about entertainment?

 

none of that from the Dutch master tactician.

 

get rid!

This ^^ We know what the situation is regarding some of the older players, we knew it last season. So did Jos though, his job was to work with the players he has, and organise them into an effective unit There’s no sign that he’s started doing that

[Mr. Chow]

get rid and let someone else rebuild, cba with this way of football at the moment.

[S36 OWL]

20 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

Cobblers.   We want it all and we want it now.

 

We are being charge premier league prices for shocking football.  I think fans have every right to be pi55ed off.

[Sham67]

1 minute ago, S36 OWL said:

 

We are being charge premier league prices for shocking football.  I think fans have every right to be pi55ed off.

 

Are you the spokesman of the entire fanbase or just the whiny entitled section of it?

[Pale Rider]

36 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

Just looking at all the crazy threads on Jos and who should be playing etc. etc.

 

We have an old squad many of whom are suffering from long term injury issues and loss of form. For example:

 

Westwood - now age 34 and had an horrendous season last year with injury and loss of form resulting in him being out of action for the last 12 months

 

Jones - Also aged 34, hasn't played for the side this season and prior to that only featured in half the games

 

Lee - Now aged 30 and is basically (sadly finished due to injury. Has played only intermittently since the 15/16 season and not at all for 12 months

 

Fletcher - Great player but has had injury issues (only 19 appearances last season) and rumoured to be on the highest wage at the club. Will be 32 in March

 

Hooper - Fantastic when available (which since he signed for us sadly hasn't been that often) - only featured in half the games the last two seasons an none this . 31 in January

 

Boyd - Never been able to pin down a regular slot. 20 games last season just one so far this. Already aged 33

 

Abdi - Aged 32 seemingly always injured

 

Hutchinson - Injury prone and reckless hasn't even managed half the games in 4 and a half seasons. 29 and rumours surfacing (on here) as a very difficult character to manage

 

Pudil - Solid and reliable but at 33 how long can he keep going for?

 

Forestieri - 29 in January but temperamental and an  unsettling influence (his no show two seasons ago over pay - even Dingle Mick says he would have got rid for that).

 

These are all players that need to be moved on somehow. It's for the long term benefit of the club and regardless of who the manager is they have got a hell of a job on their hands.

 

Joe does have a reputation for being a very strict disciplinarian and giving youth a chance in order to build a team. Regardless of his team selections he does seem to be sticking by his team selections and I think he deserves the chance to carry on for a couple of seasons.

 

Effectively we are in the same situation as we were following relegation from the EPL. Overpaid, injured and under motivated older players needing to be moved on from a club that was hamstrung with money issues. We tried umpteen managers then who struggled due to the constraints one of whom (Jewell) was a success immediately before and after leaving Hillsborough.

 

Joe is not to blame for the current problems we have with an ageing team on stupid contracts who have all manner of injury, form and motivation issues. Give him a proper chance!

 

Even if Jos goes, the new guy is going to face the same issues, this is a long term job and it's going to take two or three seasons to get back on track.

Said it elsewhere he won’t get that amount of time unless he starts delivering. 

[matthefish2002]

Probably right that 2-3 seasons needed to rebuild. But think its unfair to ask fans to pay highest ticket priced in the league during this time.

At these prices at I expect 2 out of 3 seasons to be minimum play off hopefuls.

[Guest LittleG]

A lot of the points you raise are valid but don't forget the flip side. We have not moved forward at all since his reign began, his tactics and team selections are baffling, constant changing of personnel and formations and his style of play (ultra defensive and seemingly not wanting to have a go); you can understand why people want a change. I've not seen much to give me any encouragement that he is capable of building a side over 2/3 seasons. 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

I broadly agree with everything said in the OP about the state of the squad but apart from his willingness to blood youngsters, almost everything else about the way Jos seems to be managing those players and the tactics he employs leaves me totally baffled. Time is not on his side .... or ours!

[doubleo]

6 minutes ago, LittleG said:

A lot of the points you raise are valid but don't forget the flip side. We have not moved forward at all since his reign began, his tactics and team selections are baffling, constant changing of personnel and formations and his style of play (ultra defensive and seemingly not wanting to have a go); you can understand why people want a change. I've not seen much to give me any encouragement that he is capable of building a side over 2/3 seasons. 

I agree completely.  We all understand that we are rebuilding and that many of our best players are injured or not available, I would love to see fast flowing attacking football but am prepared to watch a more workmanlike style providing it was effective.  The trouble is, after all this time I don't see any pattern/style developing.  If we were defending like we did at the Lane every match and then he started working on the midfield and attack I could live with it. I don't expect him to turn it around in one season but I do expect to see improvement.  Sadly, it's lacking.

[Utah Owl]

He's only been here for 10 months and has been allowed to spend the square root of diddly squat which means he is effectively doing the job with one hand tied behind his back. It also means he makes a very convenient fall guy for Chansiri's complete and utter mismanagement of the club.

 

Under the circumstances is there anyone out there that we can realistically get that can do a better job given that there are no funds and effectively their hands will be tied. Whilst I would love either Warnock or Dingle Mick here, not sure either of them would take the job on in such circumstances.

[Utah Owl]

2 minutes ago, doubleo said:

I agree completely.  We all understand that we are rebuilding and that many of our best players are injured or not available, I would love to see fast flowing attacking football but am prepared to watch a more workmanlike style providing it was effective.  The trouble is, after all this time I don't see any pattern/style developing.  If we were defending like we did at the Lane every match and then he started working on the midfield and attack I could live with it. I don't expect him to turn it around in one season but I do expect to see improvement.  Sadly, it's lacking.

Maybe that might be how he takes things forward from here. The old adage of building from the back still applies.

[ashley8]

Jos first game against pigs all out defence. At the time loads of injuries and lack of confidence. Now almost a year later almost all available introduction of good young prospects and we go there and have to play all out defense as they... THEY! Play attractive attacking football. How embarrassing!!! 

Jos has never been the right man and wasting time with him is a waste of all our time and ticket money. Loosing to Norwich and he didn't move from his seat was the last straw. Give the right man time yes. But let's get on with finding him and stop this pointless waste of time.

[Inspector Lestrade]

55 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

Cobblers.   We want it all and we want it now.

 

I want it before now - your just a shill of the club how much are they paying you?  

 

If we don't get 6 points next game then we want a Wednesday employee burnt at the stake.  

 

I'm gonna Scweem Scweem and Scweem

[doubleo]

3 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

Maybe that might be how he takes things forward from here. The old adage of building from the back still applies.

I hope so but what happened in the four games before that ?  The changing of the defensive unit week after week baffles me. He's been here long enough to work out what defensive system is best with the players he has. Tinker with the attacking part of the team but the defence should more or less pick itself.