The real reason crowds are down (and its not prices)

[OWL1969]

4 hours ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

It’s obvious that not one single factor effects crowd figures.

 

Wednesday’s league position

 

Style of play

 

Prices

 

Opposition

 

TV appearances all play a part.

 

However, suggesting price plays no part is just plain wrong.  If season ticket prices were £2,500 and it was £150 POTG per match, I don’t think we would average more than 2,000 regardless of league position.

 

Similarly, if it was £23 for a season ticket - I have no doubt whatsoever that we would sell 35,000 season tickets.

 

Now they are obviously extreme examples but there will be a demand and price curve that will move between the above two examples with league position effecting the elasticity of demand along the price axis.

 

The trick is to try and get the season ticket and POTG at a point that maximises revenue whilst protecting the future support (and therefore future revenues).  The pity is that for the last few seasons it doesn’t appear that Wednesday have managed this - mainly due (in my opinion)to the differential between season ticket and POTG prices being too great.

This exactly.

Lots of things happen that all have an affect on attendances.

To say prices isn't one of them is ridiculous 

 

I've had a season ticket from 1983-2000 

Then I did a year travelling.

Came back and got a season ticket 2001 - 2008

Due to a change in my circumstances I could not longer vindicate purchasing a season ticket, so from 2008 - present I have worked on turnstile. (Means missing my pre match pints and usually around 15 minutes of the match, but that's something I'm willing to put up with).

 

For me personally the prices the last 3 years (and I'm talking season ticket not just potg) would definetly have seen me out priced of something I've been doing and enjoying on a consistent basis since the late 70s and had a season ticket for 25 seasons.

 Apart from the season I was away, I guess I have missed about 15 home matches due to illness or holidays over 35 years.

 

I would now no longer be able to afford a season ticket, that leaves me potg, do I then pay £39 I really can't afford for what is an attractive match?

Or wait for the the 2 or 3 matches where the club through me a bone and let me feel welcome at £20? (against less attractive opposition and often midweek) 

 

I'm sure not the only person in this situation, so I know for a fact that price has a place to pay in losing customers, I'm one of em, I still get to the matches but I'm not counted and I'm no longer a paying customer.

 

Without the turnstile job, they would have lost me altogether, with the turnstiles job, I still get to Hillsborough every home game and can just about manage 4 or 5 away games per season.

 

Get the prices right now, before we lose more fans forever.

Think long-term not short term.

It's now to treat anobody let alone "The Wednesday Family"

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by OWL1969

[WMJ4ever]

15 hours ago, trev said:

Agree to an extent.

 

But the crazy prices will put walk-up fans off. 

 

Especially for non-derby games or midweek fixtures.

As one such supporter who gets home to UK once per football season I have to agree. I could go to 2, even 3 games during a trip home depending on scheduling, but I can only afford 1 at the very most. In fact this year I can't even go to the one match that's scheduled in Sheffield, for my time back home.

[torryowl]

I can only speak for my self but I suspect there's many more like me …..where we are in the league, what division we are in how crap/ good we are would never stop me going …£46 tickets would .

[Lombardo]

14 hours ago, Greengrass said:

I expect ST on the Kop to increase dramatically due to the 'baggy shorts' incident.

any chance of upgrading this facility to the North?

 

[Semedo's ferret]

17 hours ago, Peacenocchio said:

There is a frequent argument on Owlstalk that the high cost of tickets are the cause of the downturn in crowd numbers. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but  I thought I would look at if there is any evidence as to why crowds fall and rise at Hillsborough.

 

Now I know that many on Owlstalk won’t like this but…… its fairly clear and obvious that the driver of crowd numbers is not price. It’s a bit bleeding obvious but its where the team finished the season before that determines the size of the crowd the next season.

 

Evidence

 

In 2011/12 the team went up 13 places – crowd went up 13% in 2012/13

 

In 2012/13 the team finished down 16 places lower (in a higher league) – crowd went down 12% in 2013/14

 

In 2013/14 the team went up 2 places - crowd went up 4% in 2014/15

 

In 2014/15 the team went up 3 places - crowd went up 3% in 2015/16

 

In 2015/16 the team went up 9 places (play off final) - crowd went up 20% in 2016/17

 

In 2016/17 the team went down 2 places (play off semi) - crowd down 4% in 2017/18

 

In 2017/18 the team went down 9 places – crowd down ? in 2018/19

 

Its amazingly consistent. It’s fairly obvious that season ticket sales are affected by previous years and that ‘walk ups’ (or more realistically ‘walk away’ fans) don’t come back quickly, hence in Carlos first year of the play off final the crowd only rose by 3%.

 

I know that this won’t end the debate because price is a real thing for a minority of those who have stopped going and it’s an emotional thing and our prices are high. Realistically though, the facts are that the recent drop in crowds is because some Wednesday fans stop going when we start losing.

 

At last. The Urika moment 

[fred mciver]

Success, mainly.  Leeds have 6,000 extra fans per game since Bielsa.

[Hack-Abusi]

22 hours ago, trev said:

Agree to an extent.

But the crazy prices will put walk-up fans off. 

Especially for non-derby games or midweek fixtures.

I do'nt htink you can pin point and blame one thing like prices or entertainment on the pitch etc .. i think its a massive amalgamation of things, usually negative stuff like increased prices and no transfers that result in attendances falling ...

[casbahowl]

Crowds down ?

Last seasons average was the highest in almost 20 years!

[daveyboy66]

2 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

Crowds down ?

Last seasons average was the highest in almost 20 years!

You'll never get anywhere with facts on here

[sherlyegg]

1 minute ago, daveyboy66 said:

You'll never get anywhere with facts on here

Not a very good un though...cos it's wrong

[casbahowl]

21 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

Not a very good un though...cos it's wrong

Really?

season 16/17 ......... 27129

Previous highest

season 97/98 ......... 28706

[royalowlisback]

Just now, casbahowl said:

Really?

season 16/17 ......... 27129

Previous highest

season 97/98 ......... 28706

Last season was 17/18.

[casbahowl]

7 minutes ago, royalowlisback said:

Last season was 17/18.

Indeed it was and the average was 25901 making both of the last two seasons average under the current Chairman the best since 97/98 when we were a Premiership side with Di Canio et al .

The argument that crowds are down is just a big fat lie

[royalowlisback]

This season's average is way down, continuing the trend from last season. When the 3 year deal runs out (this is the last year), then I suspect attendances will fall further - unless either a similar scheme is launched, or prices are reduced across the board. With the 3 year deal finishing - price reductions would be more likely - seeing as prices would not have to be line with anything purchased in the past.

[casbahowl]

31 minutes ago, royalowlisback said:

This season's average is way down, continuing the trend from last season. When the 3 year deal runs out (this is the last year), then I suspect attendances will fall further - unless either a similar scheme is launched, or prices are reduced across the board. With the 3 year deal finishing - price reductions would be more likely - seeing as prices would not have to be line with anything purchased in the past.

Crowds are down largely due to poor away followings.

Only Stoke have brought anything like and they were only just over 2k.

If we are anything like top 6 from Christmas onwards it’ll be another 27k average for the season!

[pgmetcalf]

7 hours ago, torryowl said:

I can only speak for my self but I suspect there's many more like me …..where we are in the league, what division we are in how crap/ good we are would never stop me going …£46 tickets would .

 

It’s the biggest reason isn’t it? Personally speaking football has always been expensive for me, I even thought £4.50 was a lot some 35 years ago. If I want to go to a match I pick and choose, I could save for a ST like I used to, but I don’t feel like going to every home match these days, whether form is good or not. There are more pressing matters in life for me at present 

[Philb125]

49 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

Indeed it was and the average was 25901 making both of the last two seasons average under the current Chairman the best since 97/98 when we were a Premiership side with Di Canio et al .

The argument that crowds are down is just a big fat lie

 

I just made a similar point in another thread. I can’t understand the hundreds of pages of people slating prices post chansiri when his three seasons massively exceed seasons before him and only are beaten by Carbone / Dicanio years and before that Hirst’s and waddles. 

 

To say lower prices attract bigger crowds is patently false. And if these higher prices are putting some off, weirdly it’s attracting more?? 

 

 

[Mosborough-owl]

On 25/09/2018 at 16:44, Peacenocchio said:

There is a frequent argument on Owlstalk that the high cost of tickets are the cause of the downturn in crowd numbers. Everyone's entitled to an opinion but  I thought I would look at if there is any evidence as to why crowds fall and rise at Hillsborough.

 

Now I know that many on Owlstalk won’t like this but…… its fairly clear and obvious that the driver of crowd numbers is not price. It’s a bit bleeding obvious but its where the team finished the season before that determines the size of the crowd the next season.

 

Evidence

 

In 2011/12 the team went up 13 places – crowd went up 13% in 2012/13

 

In 2012/13 the team finished down 16 places lower (in a higher league) – crowd went down 12% in 2013/14

 

In 2013/14 the team went up 2 places - crowd went up 4% in 2014/15

 

In 2014/15 the team went up 3 places - crowd went up 3% in 2015/16

 

In 2015/16 the team went up 9 places (play off final) - crowd went up 20% in 2016/17

 

In 2016/17 the team went down 2 places (play off semi) - crowd down 4% in 2017/18

 

In 2017/18 the team went down 9 places – crowd down ? in 2018/19

 

Its amazingly consistent. It’s fairly obvious that season ticket sales are affected by previous years and that ‘walk ups’ (or more realistically ‘walk away’ fans) don’t come back quickly, hence in Carlos first year of the play off final the crowd only rose by 3%.

 

I know that this won’t end the debate because price is a real thing for a minority of those who have stopped going and it’s an emotional thing and our prices are high. Realistically though, the facts are that the recent drop in crowds is because some Wednesday fans stop going when we start losing.

 

I'm sorry but I'm not having it. Prices definitely play a massive part in people coming to Hillsborough. I can honestly say that if we charged £42 a game whislt playing in the top division, or we charged £25 for a leauge one game.. I'd go to the leauge one game. Surly I'm not the only one who thinks like this? 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Derbyshireowl3

[Philb125]

Just now, Derbyshireowl3 said:

I'm sorry but I'm not having it. Prices definitely play a massive part in people coming to Hillsborough. I can honestly say that if we charged £42 a game whislt playing in the top division, or we changed £25 for a leauge one game.. I'd go to the leauge one game. Surly I'm not the only one who thinks like this? 

Quite the opposite according to the average attendance figures!! 

 

Charging more and above inflation price hikes has only sought to increase average attendances, so I guess for every person it deters it attracts an equal or greater volume of new punters.

 

Going on the threads here I’d have never thought that and stand to be corrected as my only research was Wikipedia - but for us to have a higher average attendance than chansiri years (2 out of 3 at least) you’d need to go back two decades and be in the premier league. 

[sherlyegg]

13 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

Crowds are down largely due to poor away followings.

Only Stoke have brought anything like and they were only just over 2k.

If we are anything like top 6 from Christmas onwards it’ll be another 27k average for the season!

 

Make your mind up, you said last season was the highest for 20 years