Forestieri

[Almat]

Imo leaving FF out is Jos's idea of making the point that there are simply no favourites any more. The fact that we have won 3 on the bounce without starting what most would consider our best player serves as a warning that no-one is indispensable. Superb management imo.

[HIGHERSTATE]

50 minutes ago, deaks1984 said:

My 5 year old said "Dad that's 3 games Forestieri's not started and we've won". And he's got 45 on the back of his shirt!!.

I'm surprised at the lack of negs TBH. 

No doubt "Fessi" has the quality to win games but please just look at what Jos is doing without moaners in the side. 

For the first time in 2 years I'm beginning to think we should have cashed our chips. 

I hope he can get his "team player" head on and fire us to the play offs or better, but right now I feel like Jos and the players who are doing the biz, don't get the respect they deserve. Just because we have a well loved "flair" player sat on the bench.

Grow some balls and start a positive thread about the good achievements Jos and the youngsters have made, so far. Rather than try and get all the silly gang bangers on board.

I'm so over Forestieri, and the sooner everyone else on your bandwagon, gets to grips with the lack of team contribution and negative impact his sulking has when a ball doesn't run his way, then we might bang another 10 points from team ethics on the board.

Im getting there..last season we laughed and rolled our eyes when the kop started to get giddy when he was warming up and he wasnt even playing that well..in hindsight he was injured but the adoration he receives is just too much..even when we win without him

 

It really is like a teen with his first fit girlfriend who he reckons hes going to marry

Edited September 1, 2018 by HIGHERSTATE

[jamiejohn]

He will be back in the starting line up when jos believes he’s got whatever message he’s trying to get across. It’s called man management something we’ve needed for a long time 

[james o connor]

5 hours ago, wilyfox said:

I think Jos is managing egos with FF and Hutchinson - and he's winning at the moment. 

Deffo with forestieri ... tbh this bizarre obsession with him starting is stupid. Jos knows best, results back this up. 

Hutchinson is different, he just isn’t good enough for the team 

[billyblack]

Just now, james o connor said:

Deffo with forestieri ... tbh this bizarre obsession with him starting is stupid. Jos knows best, results back this up. 

Hutchinson is different, he just isn’t good enough for the team 

Good to read we have some fans who can actually think. 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

Just now, billyblack said:

Good to read we have some fans who can actually think. 

 

Not quite sure what that means, but if 2 people have different opinions it doesn't mean one can think and the other can't.  It's like saying that only 1 political leader is capable of rational thought, which is clearly a silly argument, as we all know that none of them are!

 

I don't agree with billyblack, but I think his point is valid.  For me, if FF was dropped from the Brentford match, then Nuihu and Pelupessey should have been.  Nuihu was poor, but laboured as well.  I then saw the 2 home games in the league and I would say that 95% of fans would say Fletcher played far better than Nuihu, plus the team played better against Millwall than Ipswich, yet in the next league match he starts with Nuihu.  Of course, everyone can then argue that Jos made the right call because we won, but we may have won 3-0 with Fletcher starting, its not as simple as just saying if we win the manager has picked the right team.  Clearly, if we do win, its not 100% down to the manager and similarly if we lose it's not.  Dropping FF may have been to show that no single player is bigger than the club and I respect that and would want that, but then there is absolutely no doubt that any manager has his "favourites".  It is pretty clear that Pelupessey is Jos's man, therefore he will get the starting role over Hutch. I actually think Hutch is better at RCB or even RB, but he has had some games in the last 2 years in CM where he has carried the team.  A 3 man midfield may suit him more, if he was able to play a few games to build up his performance in that role again, but I doubt he will get it unless Pelupessey gets injured.  

 

For me, we have to fit FF into the team, especially with this formation.  However, Joao adds something different and Mattias has worked very hard in the games he has played.  He is the only player who regularly runs beyond the line, although we have never really made much of that in the time he has been with us.  Quite simply though, compare FFs contributions to Mattias in the time they have both been at the club, even when both have been fully fit and FF is much more likely to make the difference.  

 

 

[woodys]

7 hours ago, TodwickOwl said:

How long can he stay out the side for?

 

Matias was a bit of a headless chicken today and making runs but ultimately losing the ball and giving it back to Reading - dangerous game and did it plenty of times in the last 20 minutes

 

I dont think you can leave a player of his quality on the bench - there will be games where he is the difference between two teams and he’s won us games on his own countless times in the past. Matias on the other hand, I cant see that being the case. And that turn at the end was something else ...

I’m with you mate better side with him in it

Edited September 1, 2018 by woodys

[billyblack]

2 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Not quite sure what that means, but if 2 people have different opinions it doesn't mean one can think and the other can't.  It's like saying that only 1 political leader is capable of rational thought, which is clearly a silly argument, as we all know that none of them are!

 

I don't agree with billyblack, but I think his point is valid.  For me, if FF was dropped from the Brentford match, then Nuihu and Pelupessey should have been.  Nuihu was poor, but laboured as well.  I then saw the 2 home games in the league and I would say that 95% of fans would say Fletcher played far better than Nuihu, plus the team played better against Millwall than Ipswich, yet in the next league match he starts with Nuihu.  Of course, everyone can then argue that Jos made the right call because we won, but we may have won 3-0 with Fletcher starting, its not as simple as just saying if we win the manager has picked the right team.  Clearly, if we do win, its not 100% down to the manager and similarly if we lose it's not.  Dropping FF may have been to show that no single player is bigger than the club and I respect that and would want that, but then there is absolutely no doubt that any manager has his "favourites".  It is pretty clear that Pelupessey is Jos's man, therefore he will get the starting role over Hutch. I actually think Hutch is better at RCB or even RB, but he has had some games in the last 2 years in CM where he has carried the team.  A 3 man midfield may suit him more, if he was able to play a few games to build up his performance in that role again, but I doubt he will get it unless Pelupessey gets injured.  

 

For me, we have to fit FF into the team, especially with this formation.  However, Joao adds something different and Mattias has worked very hard in the games he has played.  He is the only player who regularly runs beyond the line, although we have never really made much of that in the time he has been with us.  Quite simply though, compare FFs contributions to Mattias in the time they have both been at the club, even when both have been fully fit and FF is much more likely to make the difference.  

 

 

Hi onedavidhirst. Point im making is that some people would have FF starting irrespective of results, results are what count after all. They dont seem to have the ability to actually see whats happening in front of them or recognise or acknowledge it. Facts mean nothing.

 

You call it an opinion. I call it stupid ignorance.

[onlyonedavidhirst]

2 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Hi onedavidhirst. Point im making is that some people would have FF starting irrespective of results, results are what count after all. They dont seem to have the ability to actually see whats happening in front of them or recognise or acknowledge it. Facts mean nothing.

 

You call it an opinion. I call it stupid ignorance.

 

Fair enough mate, However, if our winning team is picked for the next 2 matches and collect zero points, does that still make it the right call, when it may have been the case that if we had swapped MM for FF (I'm not necessarily suggesting that) we would have won them both.  

 

I would start FF as much as possible, but not irrespective of results.  The other thing is, it seems last season FF at one point made it clear he wanted to play up top and didn't think he could contribute enough out wide.  The manager should be telling FF where he wants him to play, yet if I recall it rightly Carlos played him as a CF in the game after that.  For me, FF isn't consistently effective enough in a front 2, because he is more easily bullied with his back to goal.  

 

I'll tell you what though, after the first few games, I'm extremely glad we are were we are now as it gives us hope for the next few more difficult games.  The new signings look like they might add to the strength of the team and we have players on the subs bench and coming back from injury (Fingers crossed) that if we integrate back in to the team, makes us even stronger.  Add to that, I think today was the best the Back 4 have played this season as a unit, albeit we still need to reduce the number of shots teams are having against us.

[DuttyTeabags]

We've got Stoke, Forest, Villa and Leeds in back 2 weeks of Sept so you would assume FF will have a big part to play.

 

I like Matias but think he is still trying to get his confidence in front of goal back, there was a couple of moments yesterday on the break when he seemed too eager to offload the ball when he could have either shot or committed their defenders.

 

In both scenarios with FF I think we would have had a shot on goal for better or worse and if you don't shoot you don't score.

 

Would like to see him and Fletch start vs Stoke at home and use Nuhiu/ Matias away at Forest.  Matias has notched there before maybe he'll remember his shooting boots...

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by DuttyTeabags
Too there

[thebrap11]

With or without ff we would've won those 3 games. We would've won them much more comfortably had he started tho. 

[Past Member]

6 hours ago, Almat said:

Imo leaving FF out is Jos's idea of making the point that there are simply no favourites any more. The fact that we have won 3 on the bounce without starting what most would consider our best player serves as a warning that no-one is indispensable. Superb management imo.

 

Jos's management can't be determined, after playing the league's bottom 2 sides (with narrow wins).

 

4-6 games will tell us. 

 

 

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Not quite sure what that means, but if 2 people have different opinions it doesn't mean one can think and the other can't.  It's like saying that only 1 political leader is capable of rational thought, which is clearly a silly argument, as we all know that none of them are!

 

I don't agree with billyblack, but I think his point is valid.  For me, if FF was dropped from the Brentford match, then Nuihu and Pelupessey should have been.  Nuihu was poor, but laboured as well.  I then saw the 2 home games in the league and I would say that 95% of fans would say Fletcher played far better than Nuihu, plus the team played better against Millwall than Ipswich, yet in the next league match he starts with Nuihu.  Of course, everyone can then argue that Jos made the right call because we won, but we may have won 3-0 with Fletcher starting, its not as simple as just saying if we win the manager has picked the right team.  Clearly, if we do win, its not 100% down to the manager and similarly if we lose it's not.  Dropping FF may have been to show that no single player is bigger than the club and I respect that and would want that, but then there is absolutely no doubt that any manager has his "favourites".  It is pretty clear that Pelupessey is Jos's man, therefore he will get the starting role over Hutch. I actually think Hutch is better at RCB or even RB, but he has had some games in the last 2 years in CM where he has carried the team.  A 3 man midfield may suit him more, if he was able to play a few games to build up his performance in that role again, but I doubt he will get it unless Pelupessey gets injured.  

 

For me, we have to fit FF into the team, especially with this formation.  However, Joao adds something different and Mattias has worked very hard in the games he has played.  He is the only player who regularly runs beyond the line, although we have never really made much of that in the time he has been with us.  Quite simply though, compare FFs contributions to Mattias in the time they have both been at the club, even when both have been fully fit and FF is much more likely to make the difference.  

 

 

 

Would have plussed you for the politicians line alone! 

 

Nuhiu - you can imagine how much gratitude, respect and belief Jos has for Atdhe,  a player who’s effort and success massively helped dragged Jos’s first season out of the mire. We all knew some fans would have no patience once Nuhiu had a poor game or two, but it will take more than a few games for Jos to lose faith.

 

Joey - I suppose the same argument applies. Joey was a rock for Jos last season. Personally I think Joey is very limited, but right now there aren’t any compelling alternatives. Jones doesn’t seem to feature in our plans and Hutch has been very poor this season. If Hutch is acting up and playing poorly it’s not surprising he keeps faith in Joey. This might change now that Onomah is here.

 

FF - you use the same line others have “we have to fit FF into the team”. No, we absolutely don’t. He has more skill, flair and threat than anyone else in the squad, so if the manager is leaving him benched and our results have improved then clearly something is very wrong. We have no idea about the dressing-room and training-ground, but we can see with our own eyes on the pitch and in the table that right now the team is better without him starting. I suspect that when his chance comes, as it will in the next busy spell, Fernando will look a very different player. And that will be great for him, for the team, and for us fans who love watching him on his game.

[TodwickOwl]

7 hours ago, deaks1984 said:

My 5 year old said "Dad that's 3 games Forestieri's not started and we've won". And he's got 45 on the back of his shirt!!.

I'm surprised at the lack of negs TBH. 

No doubt "Fessi" has the quality to win games but please just look at what Jos is doing without moaners in the side. 

For the first time in 2 years I'm beginning to think we should have cashed our chips. 

I hope he can get his "team player" head on and fire us to the play offs or better, but right now I feel like Jos and the players who are doing the biz, don't get the respect they deserve. Just because we have a well loved "flair" player sat on the bench.

Grow some balls and start a positive thread about the good achievements Jos and the youngsters have made, so far. Rather than try and get all the silly gang bangers on board.

I'm so over Forestieri, and the sooner everyone else on your bandwagon, gets to grips with the lack of team contribution and negative impact his sulking has when a ball doesn't run his way, then we might bang another 10 points from team ethics on the board.

 

I’ve never not got behind the team

 

But the last 3 games we have played bang ordinary teams - and we haven’t played exactly that good either. Better teams have/will punish us if we don’t play better and cheaply giving the ball away at a one goal lead

 

Forestieri is one of the best players in the championship and would probably walk in any other side - and you’re saying leave him out? 

 

Give it a rest - you like many will be crying for him to be back in side soon. We win 3 games and people are jumping on Forestieri’s back forgetting his ability and making up half truth rumours about his dedication to team etc - what a load of crap.

[TodwickOwl]

8 hours ago, Mystic Neg said:

FF is almost certainly our most gifted player, we know he is, he knows he is, but he often doesn't apply himself in the way that would positively influence the team more. 

 

Yes he works tirelessly, runs all over the place trying to win the ball, play the magic ball, score a wonder goal etc but trouble is I think he trys to do too much.

 

It is not about lack of effort or quality that he is left out now, it is how it is applied and his decision making. It's almost as if we are worse with him in the team because he doesn't trust anyone else to do things and we lose our shape or don't make the most of chances because he only backs himself to do things much of the time.

 

Singling someone out as the star player is dangerous as it affects the whole team. Team -  'Give it to him and let him sort it' / FF - 'these lads cant finish so i will shoot from 35 yards instead of passing'. A star player often doesn't result in a good team unit. They are all as vital as each other.

 

This is what Jos is on about.

 

 

 

Well put

 

Forestieri is a luxury and flair player - why the need to jump on his back and give him all the abuse and single him out just because he’s been dropped by Jos, I don’t know

 

People have very short memories and he’s countlessly pulled winners out of the bag for us and got us through games - we suddenly win 3 on bounce and there’s no requirement for him anymore? Ridiculous.

 

He has shown last 3 games coming on he’s got stuck in and worked his arse off for the team - awaiting his opportunity to come back in. I guarantee he will be starting against bigger and better sides eg Leeds. 

[@owlstalk]

 

 

Starting to think some fans support Forestieri over and above Sheffield Wednesday

 

 

[bladeshater]

Nobody on here gets to see what goes off in training and this is where the decision to play  FF is made 

Edited September 2, 2018 by bladeshater

[Past Member]

16 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Starting to think some fans support Forestieri over and above Sheffield Wednesday

 

 

 

Give it a rest FFS

[Past Member]

24 minutes ago, TodwickOwl said:

 

Well put

 

Forestieri is a luxury and flair player - why the need to jump on his back and give him all the abuse and single him out just because he’s been dropped by Jos, I don’t know

 

People have very short memories and he’s countlessly pulled winners out of the bag for us and got us through games - we suddenly win 3 on bounce and there’s no requirement for him anymore? Ridiculous.

 

He has shown last 3 games coming on he’s got stuck in and worked his arse off for the team - awaiting his opportunity to come back in. I guarantee he will be starting against bigger and better sides eg Leeds. 

 

I want FF to start every time

 

But, I hope Jos persists with his current preference for starting Nuhiu & Matias, ahead of him. At least for a few more games.

 

We'll then get a balanced view of how effective it is; & if it's capable of a top 6 challenge.

Edited September 2, 2018 by zzmdu

[billyblack]

27 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

Give it a rest FFS

Still haven't answered my question!