Forestieri

[alanharper]

19 minutes ago, markowl said:

Didn't FF play against Brentford?

 

Yes, and he didn't play any worse than anyone else. In fact he was the one player who looked like he may do something, whereas Matias was utterly anonymous yet FF is the one who got dropped / scapegoated despite being in great form since returning from injury.  

[Lord Snooty]

10 minutes ago, bigrbuk said:

Outrageous bit of skill to win a free kick in the dying minutes, anyone got a clip for me to re-watch? (Not read all 13 pages, sorry if already in)

 

That was superb.

 

Mentioned in the match day thread too that Fernando and Atty did brilliantly out on that left flank in the final two minutes seeing the game out.Just what was needed at  the time too.

 

 

[Beholder]

2 minutes ago, alanharper said:

 

Yes, and he didn't play any worse than anyone else. In fact he was the one player who looked like he may do something, whereas Matias was utterly anonymous yet FF is the one who got dropped / scapegoated despite being in great form since returning from injury.  

I think Jos has dropped Forestieri because he plays for himself too much. 

 

Jos wants a team. Not individuals. 

 

Just my take on it. 

 

 

 

[Lord Snooty]

Terrific away team performance yesteday- including both the substitutes.

 

Fernando will find himself in the team sooner or later and I'm sure will show his value.  

[tarn owl]

Wake up on a Sunday morning happy, look at the table, 4 points off the top and just outside the playoffs. Great stuff. Watch the goals again. Great finish from reach and Joao, they are coming on leaps and bounds. Better marking for their goal needed but Thorniley and lees will improve with time. Jos happy on swfc main site. Click on owlstalk to see if the main topic is Joao, reach, Thorniley, Penney, bannan. No, no the only big debate is whether a player on the bench should play despite 3 STRAIGHT WINS! He started midweek, he got injured over by over playing, he is now rotating the squad to try prevent what you all moaned at Carlos for an injury crisis! Cheer up for gods sake! Fessi will play a lot this year, but not too much because Jos is a good manager! Now I’m going to watch the goals again.

[Costello 77]

15 minutes ago, alanharper said:

 

Yes, and he didn't play any worse than anyone else. In fact he was the one player who looked like he may do something, whereas Matias was utterly anonymous yet FF is the one who got dropped / scapegoated despite being in great form since returning from injury.  

How is FF being scapegoated?

He's widely recognised as our best player and the manager's using him as he sees fit.

[onlyonedavidhirst]

1 hour ago, Costello 77 said:

How is FF being scapegoated?

He's widely recognised as our best player and the manager's using him as he sees fit.

 

Im not advocating we play FF every game and I recognise the team comes first.  However, show me a successful team where their best player (your words) is on the subs bench for 3 games in a row, when he is fit?

 

Its not necessarily about being in one camp or the other.  My previous point on Pelupessy has been disccused on here. I do t think he should have played every league game, yet people have argued that he was a consistent performer for Jos when we picked up form last year. That’s a fair point entirely, but so was FF and moreover Pelupessy was n the side that couldn’t buy a win.  He’s been given more chances than Hutch for certain under Jos and has played as many poor/ineffective matches as Hutch. Oh and right now I would play Pelupessy still, but I think he’s extremely fortunate to not have been dropped at any point. Plus I’ve never seen him play a game to the level I’ve seen Hutch play. Of course, what happens in training etc has to have an impact on who Jos picks.

 

i do think this is a good debate as it’s not clear cut, but like I said before, whichever way you lean, it’s really all about how we progress from here and whether we play well and create ourselves the best opportunity to play well by picking the “best” side in the next run of fixtures.

 

[bigsheff]

3 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Im not advocating we play FF every game and I recognise the team comes first.  However, show me a successful team where their best player (your words) is on the subs bench for 3 games in a row, when he is fit?

The best young player in the premier league hasn’t started a single game for Man City this season - Leroy Sane

[ChinaOwl]

2 hours ago, Beholder said:

I think Jos has dropped Forestieri because he plays for himself too much. 

 

Jos wants a team. Not individuals. 

 

Just my take on it. 

 

 

 

 

I think Jos has taken this approach because he rates Matias, wants him match fit and wants him back to his best. The only way that can be achieved is by giving Matias time on the pitch. A season is 46 games (plus cup games and potentially play-off eliminators). It is not necessarily about favouring Matias over Forestieri. We need both of them playing well and up to speed. Both will certainly be needed in no short measure this season.

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, Costello 77 said:

How is FF being scapegoated?

He's widely recognised as our best player and the manager's using him as he sees fit.

 

I'd say Bannan is our best player . We have proved we can win games without Fessi,  but we would struggle without Bazza. 

[billyblack]

7 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Im not advocating we play FF every game and I recognise the team comes first.  However, show me a successful team where their best player (your words) is on the subs bench for 3 games in a row, when he is fit?

 

Its not necessarily about being in one camp or the other.  My previous point on Pelupessy has been disccused on here. I do t think he should have played every league game, yet people have argued that he was a consistent performer for Jos when we picked up form last year. That’s a fair point entirely, but so was FF and moreover Pelupessy was n the side that couldn’t buy a win.  He’s been given more chances than Hutch for certain under Jos and has played as many poor/ineffective matches as Hutch. Oh and right now I would play Pelupessy still, but I think he’s extremely fortunate to not have been dropped at any point. Plus I’ve never seen him play a game to the level I’ve seen Hutch play. Of course, what happens in training etc has to have an impact on who Jos picks.

 

i do think this is a good debate as it’s not clear cut, but like I said before, whichever way you lean, it’s really all about how we progress from here and whether we play well and create ourselves the best opportunity to play well by picking the “best” side in the next run of fixtures.

 

We had more options in FF position in my view. Central midfield for a certain role we have far less options. Just my thoughts.

[SiJ]

We have just won three league games in a row and people are bemoaning the fact Nando isn't starting. 

 

He's a cracking player but the nauseating fanboy element which surrounds him is so cringey. 

 

We either get people moaning about him not starting or thinking he's off to Leeds because he only applauded the North Stand for 1 minute. 

 

Have no doubt he will force his way back into Jos' plans before too long, but it would pretty awful man manager to just bin off players who've won three in a row to put in the so-called superstar. 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

10 minutes ago, billyblack said:

We had more options in FF position in my view. Central midfield for a certain role we have far less options. Just my thoughts.

 

True. 

[Holmowl]

3 hours ago, Philb125 said:

Out of interest could someone tell me Fessi’s average minutes / games per season last 3-5 seasons? 

 

I get get that he’s a great player, he’ll most likely be challenging for our top scorer, but if he’s scoring against better teams and others are scoring / playing now, what’s the harm? 

 

 

 

15/16 2962 minutes out of 3780 - 78%

16/17 2481 / 4140 - 60%

17/18 557 / 4140 - 13%

18/19 307 / 540 - 57%

 

League games only

[Costello 77]

25 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

 

Im not advocating we play FF every game and I recognise the team comes first.  However, show me a successful team where their best player (your words) is on the subs bench for 3 games in a row, when he is fit?

 

Its not necessarily about being in one camp or the other.  My previous point on Pelupessy has been disccused on here. I do t think he should have played every league game, yet people have argued that he was a consistent performer for Jos when we picked up form last year. That’s a fair point entirely, but so was FF and moreover Pelupessy was n the side that couldn’t buy a win.  He’s been given more chances than Hutch for certain under Jos and has played as many poor/ineffective matches as Hutch. Oh and right now I would play Pelupessy still, but I think he’s extremely fortunate to not have been dropped at any point. Plus I’ve never seen him play a game to the level I’ve seen Hutch play. Of course, what happens in training etc has to have an impact on who Jos picks.

 

i do think this is a good debate as it’s not clear cut, but like I said before, whichever way you lean, it’s really all about how we progress from here and whether we play well and create ourselves the best opportunity to play well by picking the “best” side in the next run of fixtures.

 

"Widely regarded as the best player in our team"..THOSE were my words.

Nice ramble tho.. considering I was asking a question to a completely different poster.

[onlyonedavidhirst]

16 minutes ago, bigsheff said:

The best young player in the premier league hasn’t started a single game for Man City this season - Leroy Sane

 

Not the same in my view. I quoted best player, not best young player.  Sane is not in the top 3 players at Man City, DeBruyne was never left out for 3 games on the bounce.  Sane is top notch I agree, but he wasnt picked In the squad for the World Cup and City have players equally as good to take his place.

 

Apart from his age, there are similarities though, because it’s likely Pep dropped him due to his “team ethic”, which is probably the main reason FF was dropped.

[Costello 77]

20 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

I'd say Bannan is our best player . We have proved we can win games without Fessi,  but we would struggle without Bazza. 

Maybe...

[bigash_swfc]

2 hours ago, alanharper said:

Yes, and he didn't play any worse than anyone else. In fact he was the one player who looked like he may do something, whereas Matias was utterly anonymous yet FF is the one who got dropped / scapegoated despite being in great form since returning from injury.  

 

2 hours ago, Beholder said:

I think Jos has dropped Forestieri because he plays for himself too much. 

Jos wants a team. Not individuals. 

Just my take on it.

 

Sounds spot on for an answer.

 

Just IMO though, Matias and FF also have different body types, Matias looks as though he can run for days, Forestieri looks built for short, explosive dribbling or attacking runs.

 

Maybe it's a diet issue, I'd love to see FF as fit as Knockaert was for Brighton in the Championship.

 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

4 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

"Widely regarded as the best player in our team"..THOSE were my words.

Nice ramble tho.. considering I was asking a question to a completely different poster.

 

I like a ramble.  I was kinda answering more than 1 poster

[Philb125]

25 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

15/16 2962 minutes out of 3780 - 78%

16/17 2481 / 4140 - 60%

17/18 557 / 4140 - 13%

18/19 307 / 540 - 57%

 

League games only

Cheers Holmy... so rare for him to play more than 60% of minutes in a season, that was case prior to him signing too! So maybe Jos, as well as sending out a message is banking some minutes where he didn’t feel we needed to go balls to the wall? 

 

I think in the past, with a bit more expectation Carlos was guilty of playing ‘his’ best team (I say his as it was often not what many on here picked). In doing so, he overplayed certain players, burnt out players, hampered form of reserve players and no doubt added to injury problems by rushing back / playing through injuries. 

 

It’s a long hard season and just like your Fletch Nuhiu thread, it’s fantastic to have players to swap and change, sometimes we’ll not have the best players out there but hopefully more often than not we have the best team; by best team I mean one that is fit, hungry, hard working, in form!