Joao

[Shetland Owl]

Joao and big Dave are now our front two. No chance for Fletcher or Rhodes would get rid of them both

Next season we will also have Hooper back and FF can also play up front if needed.

 

Lets get Dave and Joao tied down to longer term contracts.

[Ray Von shabba]

1 minute ago, Shetland Owl said:

Joao and big Dave are now our front two. No chance for Fletcher or Rhodes would get rid of them both

Next season we will also have Hooper back and FF can also play up front if needed.

 

Lets get Dave and Joao tied down to longer term contracts.

Totally agree and offload Rhodes, Fletcher and Winnall if possible.

[MrTacoSWFC]

And not so long ago he was getting some right stick... I'm glad it's clicking at the moment. Happy for him.

[Holmowl]

44 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

Sorry but as usual our fans are fickle. Can people not be realistic? 

 

The facts are, he is extremely talented but in his 3 years here so far he's only shown this in two fairly short spells in year 1 and now in year 3. I believe he is a good player no doubt. But he's also shown he's completely useless at times. So, what do you do? He's probably not going to make it much higher than this level unless he can be doing it in 35+ games a season and not just 10 games. To be fair it's probably the same for many strikers at this level. 

 

You are right to say that he has to be judged over more than 10 recent games, so let’s do that.

 

Since arriving in the Championship: 

 

19 goals 

4328 minutes

Goal every 228 mins

 

He doesn’t take our penalties, so a goal every 228 is very decent. Better than Forestieri, Fletcher and Rhodes.

 

But also, and far more importantly, he is improving. 

 

This season he is scoring a goal every 152 minutes. That is absolutely top notch. And as for his recent form since Carlos left...off the scale.

 

I admit I thought he had no future here during his enormous barren spell, but you can’t argue with facts, and the facts are he has become prolific. Long may it continue, cos a lightening 10 foot tall athletic goal-scoring 24 year old is something special. 

[Blatter]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

Hooper, Joao, Nuhiu, Forestieri - that's basically all the forwards you'd ever really need, isn't it? Any combination of those four is pretty much a defender's worst nightmare, at least in theory.

 

Concentrate on strengthening our fullbacks and midfield ball retention, trim the squad of anyone who isn't 1st choice/1st choice cover or a promising youngster, and we're in pretty good shape IMO.

Not much else needed besides a proper preseason and vaguely normal luck with injuries.

I almost agree and posted similarly a couple of weeks ago.

Those four provide Poachers instict, Hooper. Pace, Joao. Height and strength Nuhiu, Trickery and skill Forestieri

My only reservation is that two of them have been missing most of the season which has left the squad very thin because Rhodes has been ineffective and Fletcher and Matias can't stay fit.

If the club can keep hold of the four we agree on, then surely Rhodes, Fletcher, Matias and Winnall need to be eased out for whatever cash can be raised.

That should allow a young striker with a good injury record to be added as cover for our favoured four injury prone strikers.

 

Thankfully this season Nuhiu and Joao are rarely injured  or we'd have been relying on U23's.

[DobbinTheDonkey]

Can we convince West Brom to spend some of their parachute payment on one of our big wage earners?

 

[Striggy]

1 hour ago, Not Jon Newsome said:

 

I disagree I think he's got an excellent first touch and how quick he can move his feet for a big lad is amazing. I've always claimed him to be our most complete forward and glad he's starting to live up to it.

I agree, his first touch is usually intended to enable him to turn past his marker and move forward, I like that as opposed to always tap it back to the man that passed it in the first place. Sometimes it don’t come off, but glad he tries it.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Striggy

[RUMBELOWS91]

1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said:

Sorry but as usual our fans are fickle. Can people not be realistic? 

 

The facts are, he is extremely talented but in his 3 years here so far he's only shown this in two fairly short spells in year 1 and now in year 3. I believe he is a good player no doubt. But he's also shown he's completely useless at times. So, what do you do? He's probably not going to make it much higher than this level unless he can be doing it in 35+ games a season and not just 10 games. To be fair it's probably the same for many strikers at this level. 

You need to give him 35+ games then surely?

 

You're contradicting your self saying he's only done it for 10 games when he's never been given a sustained run in the side.

 

As soon as his form dipped in that first season Carlos decided he'd got too big for his boots (Portugal caps etc) and started to leave him out. I think it's showing now he should have shown faith in him.

 

If Joao had another 30 /40 Championship games for us under his belt over the last 2 seasons and had had an arm around the shoulder rather than being frozen out of the picturr we'd be looking at an even better player now.

 

Yes, hindsight is a great thing, but that's why the likes of CC are in their jobs- they shouldn't need hindsight to know when they have a player on their hands and what to do to get the best out of them.

 

[NYCOWL]

Saw the whole mix from him today

 

Some breathtaking skill, a couple of bits of poor decision making, and another great finish.

[TheEnchanter]

6 minutes ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

You need to give him 35+ games then surely?

 

You're contradicting your self saying he's only done it for 10 games when he's never been given a sustained run in the side.

 

As soon as his form dipped in that first season Carlos decided he'd got too big for his boots (Portugal caps etc) and started to leave him out. I think it's showing now he should have shown faith in him.

 

If Joao had another 30 /40 Championship games for us under his belt over the last 2 seasons and had had an arm around the shoulder rather than being frozen out of the picturr we'd be looking at an even better player now.

 

Yes, hindsight is a great thing, but that's why the likes of CC are in their jobs- they shouldn't need hindsight to know when they have a player on their hands and what to do to get the best out of them.

 

 

I agree, main reason I'm contradicting myself is that we have other strikers at the club and it's about Joao proving that's he's good enough to be number one choice for the manager. Clearly he hasn't done that under Carlos and manybe wouldn't under Jos if other players had been available. I know it is a bit of a contradiction but it's up to players to prove they are worth the starts surely. Maybe the with the make up of our squad we are a little different to a lot of teams. I mean most at this level don't have as many striking options as us. I would look to move some on in the summer. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by TheEnchanter

[NYCOWL]

One thought that I’ve had for a while is that having so many strikers has actually harmed us.

 

You need 4 good ones, maybe the 5th is a youngster (like Hirst)

 

Too many, and nobody ever gets a run of games, which clearly has been of huge benefit to Nuhiu and Joao

[BRADDO]

2 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said:

We need to keep hold of this lad big time, he's a complete forward, can do absolutely everything. You don't get capped by Portugal at a young age if you're a mug. I can see some Premier League interest coming in during the summer, still only 24....

 

Extend his contract.

Sadly, due to FFP, as was the case at Forest I expect the club to accept if a serious bid comes in for him. We simply will not be able to keep all of our best players as we could well be the subject of an embargo. We'll have to transfer our way out of it and expect to take a few paces back before stepping forward again. I think the Forest example is where we are heading. Sorry to pee on a few parades.

[BRADDO]

Just now, BRADDO said:

Sadly, due to FFP, as was the case at Forest I expect the club to accept if a serious bid comes in for him. We simply will not be able to keep all of our best players as we could well be the subject of an embargo. We'll have to transfer our way out of it and expect to take a few paces back before stepping forward again. I think the Forest example is where we are heading. Sorry to pee on a few parades.

Re Forest, I'm referring to Assombalonga of course

[RUMBELOWS91]

5 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said:

 

I agree, main reason I'm contradicting myself is that we have other strikers at the club and it's about Joao proving that's he's good enough to be number one choice for the manager. Clearly he hasn't done that under Carlos and manybe wouldn't under Jos if other players had been available. I know it is a bit of a contradiction but it's up to players to prove they are worth the starts surely. Maybe the with the make up of our squad we are a little different to a lot of teams. I mean most at this level don't have as many striking options as us. I would look to move some on in the summer. 

I suppose it depends on what kind of individual you're dealing with.

 

For example, You buy a Hooper, Fletcher or a Rhodes and you're buying a finished article. They've been around the block, they know their career has probably hot it's ceiling, they don't necessarily need to be managed through a bad spell and they know if they don't perform they'll most likely be dropped/rested.

 

Then you look at a 21/22 year old Joao as he was in his first season. He comes in, exceeds the managers expectations early on but then has the inevitable dip in form that 90% of young players have at some point. So what do you do?

 

you can persist with him, or you can look to ease him out and then back in again.

 

I think CC went with the latter option but lost faith in Joao's ability and decided he wanted the quick fix of a Hooper/Fletcher/Rhodes/Winnall instead. This may have been the best option for our immediate prospects at the time, but it wasn't the best thing for Joao or his development. 

 

We gambled on the quick fix rather than medium/long term player development and we lost. As a consequence Joao is only now showing the kind of progress he would probably have shown 12 months ago if we'd backed him rather than going the other route.

 

[NYCOWL]

2 minutes ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

I suppose it depends on what kind of individual you're dealing with.

 

For example, You buy a Hooper, Fletcher or a Rhodes and you're buying a finished article. They've been around the block, they know their career has probably hot it's ceiling, they don't necessarily need to be managed through a bad spell and they know if they don't perform they'll most likely be dropped/rested.

 

Then you look at a 21/22 year old Joao as he was in his first season. He comes in, exceeds the managers expectations early on but then has the inevitable dip in form that 90% of young players have at some point. So what do you do?

 

you can persist with him, or you can look to ease him out and then back in again.

 

I think CC went with the latter option but lost faith in Joao's ability and decided he wanted the quick fix of a Hooper/Fletcher/Rhodes/Winnall instead. This may have been the best option for our immediate prospects at the time, but it wasn't the best thing for Joao or his development. 

 

We gambled on the quick fix rather than medium/long term player development and we lost. As a consequence Joao is only now showing the kind of progress he would probably have shown 12 months ago if we'd backed him rather than going the other route.

 

Very good assessment.

 

To be fair, Carlos is far from alone in that approach, most managers would probably have gone a similar route.

 

My issue is that if we had money to burn on strikers,why would we keep buying slow ones? Not one of them offer what Joao can when he’s at his best.

[jonesy87shef]

Praised when he deserved it. Criticised when he was really underperforming. 

 

I think he frustrated some (myself included) because you can see he has all the attributes to play at a level above. 

 

Whether it’s down to him or Carlos or a combination of things he was very inconsistent. 

 

I thought his time to show what he is capable of was running out and next pre season might be his last chance. Now hes finally showing his potential and ability week in week out. 

 

Needs tying down ASAP. Players with his attributes command huge fees in this day and age. That’s if he doesn’t stay, continue playing and improving under Jos for us. 

[RUMBELOWS91]

7 minutes ago, NYCOWL said:

Very good assessment.

 

To be fair, Carlos is far from alone in that approach, most managers would probably have gone a similar route.

 

My issue is that if we had money to burn on strikers,why would we keep buying slow ones? Not one of them offer what Joao can when he’s at his best.

You're right- plenty do take that approach. I'm just looking at Joao as an individual and trying to understand why he's performing now.

 

Same goes for Nuhiu to some extent. It's common sense really that they're supposedly improving now. They've both been given;-

 

- Game time

- The chance to form an understanding with each other

 

There's also less expected of them than the other strikers. 

 

The other big one- service. We're actually starting to make chances for them, and to be fair they've also made a few for each other.

 

 

[MrsHall]

...and some people want to give JR yet another chance....I think LJ has has taken his very well. UTO.

[mattitheowl]

I'm in 2 minds about this.  The only thing Wednesday shaped Joao managed to hit today was the back of the net for his goal.  Every other pass he made was woeful.

 

But he's done well over the last couple of months.  It all comes down to how much he's asking really.  My real doubt with him is that he can be that player who scores 20 goals across a full season.

[upperwinngardensowl]

Anyone who was at the game to day could see why he is playing for us.

raw talent and power but gave the ball away or made the wrong decision loads of times.

he is, however, getting the goals.