Jordan Rhodes - Disaster

[Hawkowl]

2 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

It always has to be an 'agenda' doesn't it? Calm down folks; it's just a football forum.

 

OK then, how has he done since then? Or is that not allowed either? Since mid-October 2015, he's scored 19 goals.

 

Prolific? Once upon a time.

Aaaarggģhhhh I'm so enraged.

 

 

I thought you were being unfair . Trimming the stats to try and make him look bad at a club where he was prolific. 

 

FFS.

[Hawkowl]

11 minutes ago, Hawkowl said:

You may be comfortable with not knowing everything ,but I do.

The wife often says to me.

"The trouble with you is you know everything. Or thing you do anyway"

I rest my case.

 

 

 

FFS.

Think not thing.

I buggered that up didn't I.

 

 

 

FFS.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Hawkowl

[Guest RocketOwl]

8 minutes ago, Hawkowl said:

Aaaarggģhhhh I'm so enraged.

 

 

I thought you were being unfair . Trimming the stats to try and make him look bad at a club where he was prolific. 

 

FFS.

Or to show that he was prolific but towards the end of his spell at the club that supposedly played to his strengths - the drought began.

[Sgt Wednesday]

Attacking principles CREATE-MAINTAIN-EXPLOIT (SPACE)

 

Jordan Rhodes, Steven Fletcher, Gary Hooper and Atdhe Nuhiu will not score regular goals in our current team.

 

CC picked up many points over is reign by throwing on 4 strikers when we needed a goal, it worked on a number of occasions, it meant we had 4v4 against the opposition defence, the main joy came from the area being overcrowded meaning confusion. 

 

Fernando Forestieri was a success the first season because he could create chances out of nothing.

 

Without FF we don't have a player who can create things for himself, for example beating a player or 2 meaning earning himself some space, see attacking principles above.

 

Now when we have 4 strikers like the ones mentioned above we need to create space for them in the final third, because simply they cant do it on their own.

 

Against a well organised team space in the final third will be limited, meaning these types of strikers get no joy.

 

So how do we create space for them?

 

Here are a couple of things:

 

By having players in the team who can beat one or two defenders, opposition playing against us will be more than happy to defend us 1v1, thats is why our strikers get no space, they are always marked, every ball into the box is a 50/50.

 

One player beating fullback drags a CB out to cover, creating space in the middle, it isn't rocket science.

 

By having pace on the break to catch teams unorganised, some teams will push fullbacks on or free up their midfield to push on to try and produce an overload, well drilled teams will be back organised by the time we get anywhere near their box, because we are too slow on the break.

 

We need pace on the break and we need 1 or 2 players who's first thought is to have a run at a defender.

 

Until this changes we won't score regular goals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

7 minutes ago, A12owl said:

Could it possibly be that the team and tactics havnt been set up to get the best from Rhodes. A player of his PROVEN quality doesn't just deteriorate without a logical reason.

 

That Proven quality you state  A12 is somewhat rare in footballers today ..

We used to call it goal hanging or Shitlining 

Anyone who's seen Jordan play knows he is very lacking in pace (always has -nothing to do with age ) 

He relies on a big knock down target man like Warboys did in the seventies at Bristol Rogers (smash n grab) Toshack at Liverpool 

And Gestede with whom he played at Blackburn 

That's an irony as you are aware.. Middlesborough finally bought Gestede after off loading Rhodes to us !,

and When he was at Villa  I recall Steve Bruce wanting Rhodes maybe he knew that Gestede and Rhodes would gel again ?

It comes down to coaching as many have said on here . And we know Carlos did not know how to get the best out of many of our players , that certainly doesn't need justifying. 

I think if Jo's can't coach a way into our squad to accommodate Jordan by the end of the season , then it's time to go ..

That's assuming he will want to coach a way in for him ? That we won't know unless he tells us !! I think he's given everyone a "clean slate and must earn your stripes again" philosophy..

What I do know is I can't remember many "single skilled strikers" in football at the moment?  they all have tricks up,their sleeves and many facets to their game , and are lightning quick and downright greedy .

I would love to ask Ian Wright for example what his take on Jordan Rhodes is ? 

I'm trusting Jos to do what's best for Wednesday on this one , hope it's the best for Jordan too but not at our expense.....

 

[DJMortimer]

16 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Jordan Rhodes, Steven Fletcher, Gary Hooper and Atdhe Nuhiu will not score regular goals in our current team.

 

 

Overall, your general point is fair, as we have all painfully attested to this season under the turgid football of Carvalhal which featured us averaging 1.25 attempts on target per game last November.

 

Yet this season Hooper has averaged 193 minutes per goal, to 322 for Rhodes. That's a big difference, and nothing to do with Forestieri who has missed essentially the entire season. Even Nuhiu, whose strike rate has been a standing joke here for the last couple of years (despite his being a wider striker's role that isn't just about scoring) is less at 264, with Joao at 299. Fletcher, like Wallace and Loovens, seems to be one of those players in decline.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by DJMortimer

[Guest RocketOwl]

8 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

That Proven quality you state  A12 is somewhat rare in footballers today ..

We used to call it goal hanging or Shitlining 

Anyone who's seen Jordan play knows he is very lacking in pace (always has -nothing to do with age ) 

He relies on a big knock down target man like Warboys did in the seventies at Bristol Rogers (smash n grab) Toshack at Liverpool 

And Gestede with whom he played at Blackburn 

That's an irony as you are aware.. Middlesborough finally bought Gestede after off loading Rhodes to us !,

and When he was at Villa  I recall Steve Bruce wanting Rhodes maybe he knew that Gestede and Rhodes would gel again ?

It comes down to coaching as many have said on here . And we know Carlos did not know how to get the best out of many of our players , that certainly doesn't need justifying. 

I think if Jo's can't coach a way into our squad to accommodate Jordan by the end of the season , then it's time to go ..

That's assuming he will want to coach a way in for him ? That we won't know unless he tells us !! I think he's given everyone a "clean slate and must earn your stripes again" philosophy..

What I do know is I can't remember many "single skilled strikers" in football at the moment?  they all have tricks up,their sleeves and many facets to their game , and are lightning quick and downright greedy .

I would love to ask Ian Wright for example what his take on Jordan Rhodes is ? 

I'm trusting Jos to do what's best for Wednesday on this one , hope it's the best for Jordan too but not at our expense.....

 

The Ian Wrigjt who was tenacious, aggressive, wanted to win at all costs?? I'd love to know to.

[scram]

I think it's fair to say few people have crossed swords with DJ Mortimer over the years more than i have

 

The reason being is that he will debate with reason and justify his opinions - never resorts to personal abuse when challenged and pretty much is an all round good egg that forums need - for controversy, debate and balance.

 

I doubt we've ever changed each others opinions but we can agree to metaphorically shake hands and disagree without the rancour, spite and ridicule that sadly seems to be a regular theme in matchday

 

I actually laughed when i saw him being accused of only being negative

 

Rhodes...

 

No player that i can ever remember in nearly 50 years of watching Wednesday has ever cost so much, promised so much yet delivered so little - and still he's almost sacrosanct with such enormous amounts of goodwill never before afforded any player for us

 

The faith in him from some posters is cult-like. Yes, i did mean cult...

 

It's not a crime to call things as they are - and he's had a shocker compared to what was expected

[DJMortimer]

Scram...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by DJMortimer

[torryowl]

3 minutes ago, scram said:

I think it's fair to say few people have crossed swords with DJ Mortimer over the years more than i have

 

The reason being is that he will debate with reason and justify his opinions - never resorts to personal abuse when challenged and pretty much is an all round good egg that forums need - for controversy, debate and balance.

 

I doubt we've ever changed each others opinions but we can agree to metaphorically shake hands and disagree without the rancour, spite and ridicule that sadly seems to be a regular theme in matchday

 

I actually laughed when i saw him being accused of only being negative

 

Rhodes...

 

No player that i can ever remember in nearly 50 years of watching Wednesday has ever cost so much, promised so much yet delivered so little - and still he's almost sacrosanct with such enormous amounts of goodwill never before afforded any player for us

 

The faith in him from some posters is cult-like. Yes, i did mean cult...

 

It's not a crime to call things as they are - and he's had a shocker compared to what was expected

he hasn't had it good that's for sure but I wouldn't be writing him off just yet ....we need to see him in a team that plays in a more attacking way than carlos played .like your bloke abdi if we can get him fit and jos can fit him into how he wants him to play then you never know . 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

3 minutes ago, scram said:

I think it's fair to say few people have crossed swords with DJ Mortimer over the years more than i have

 

The reason being is that he will debate with reason and justify his opinions - never resorts to personal abuse when challenged and pretty much is an all round good egg that forums need - for controversy, debate and balance.

 

I doubt we've ever changed each others opinions but we can agree to metaphorically shake hands and disagree without the rancour, spite and ridicule that sadly seems to be a regular theme in matchday

 

I actually laughed when i saw him being accused of only being negative

 

Rhodes...

 

No player that i can ever remember in nearly 50 years of watching Wednesday has ever cost so much, promised so much yet delivered so little - and still he's almost sacrosanct with such enormous amounts of goodwill never before afforded any player for us

 

The faith in him from some posters is cult-like. Yes, i did mean cult...

 

It's not a crime to call things as they are - and he's had a shocker compared to what was expected

His problems are in his head (Rhodes)..

Blackburn Fans I know have come up with DJ 's = the last 18 games  he played for them stat ...Gestede was injured during that period so I believe?  not an excuse but a reason ...

And I think we have had many players like this before but social media didn't offer fans the platform for opinion like they have now ..

Believe you me Hinchcliffe ..Sinton Pembridge and Carbone would have been the attention of my opinions had we had this platform then along with dozens of others ...

I'm sure Jos is far more qualified than any of us to sort the wheat from the chaff Scram..? 

[victorturner]

45 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

Attacking principles CREATE-MAINTAIN-EXPLOIT (SPACE)

 

Jordan Rhodes, Steven Fletcher, Gary Hooper and Atdhe Nuhiu will not score regular goals in our current team.

 

CC picked up many points over is reign by throwing on 4 strikers when we needed a goal, it worked on a number of occasions, it meant we had 4v4 against the opposition defence, the main joy came from the area being overcrowded meaning confusion. 

 

Fernando Forestieri was a success the first season because he could create chances out of nothing.

 

Without FF we don't have a player who can create things for himself, for example beating a player or 2 meaning earning himself some space, see attacking principles above.

 

Now when we have 4 strikers like the ones mentioned above we need to create space for them in the final third, because simply they cant do it on their own.

 

Against a well organised team space in the final third will be limited, meaning these types of strikers get no joy.

 

So how do we create space for them?

 

Here are a couple of things:

 

By having players in the team who can beat one or two defenders, opposition playing against us will be more than happy to defend us 1v1, thats is why our strikers get no space, they are always marked, every ball into the box is a 50/50.

 

One player beating fullback drags a CB out to cover, creating space in the middle, it isn't rocket science.

 

By having pace on the break to catch teams unorganised, some teams will push fullbacks on or free up their midfield to push on to try and produce an overload, well drilled teams will be back organised by the time we get anywhere near their box, because we are too slow on the break.

 

We need pace on the break and we need 1 or 2 players who's first thought is to have a run at a defender.

 

Until this changes we won't score regular goals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good analysis. We need midfielders running with the ball drawing out the opposition so creating gaps and space. It would also help if the two converted wingers we have in there , who are not specialist midfielders, at least could consistently take the ball down the wings,  supported by others from behind , and pressurise the opposition by attacking from wide.

[scram]

17 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

His problems are in his head (Rhodes)..

Blackburn Fans I know have come up with DJ 's = the last 18 games  he played for them stat ...Gestede was injured during that period so I believe?  not an excuse but a reason ...

And I think we have had many players like this before but social media didn't offer fans the platform for opinion like they have now ..

Believe you me Hinchcliffe ..Sinton Pembridge and Carbone would have been the attention of my opinions had we had this platform then along with dozens of others ...

I'm sure Jos is far more qualified than any of us to sort the wheat from the chaff Scram..? 

 

 

Point stands i'm afraid

 

The most expensive player in our history by some distance shouldn't need a queue of fanboys excusing his pitiful return

 

Carbone was given a lot of leeway for being f*cking brilliant for the most part - the FF of his day (albeit a better version) - but his desire to be paid what he felt he was worth split the fanbase asunder - and he was vilified by many who had previously been smitten by him

 

Sinton got loads of stick on messageboards albeit retrospectively - there isn't a lot of love for him among Wednesdayites. Pembridge not so much in my recall but was ultimately unable to fill the boots vacated by Wilson

 

I'm sorry but there are no more excuses for JR - doesn't mean he cannot come good under this new regime

 

But it doesn't alter the fact he has thus far represented the most disappointing signing in our modern history - all things considered

[DJMortimer]

36 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Blackburn Fans I know have come up with DJ 's = the last 18 games  he played for them stat ...Gestede was injured during that period so I believe?  not an excuse but a reason 

 

The main reason that Gestede did not play in Rhodes' last season at Blackburn was being sold to Aston Villa in July 2015.

Edited January 22, 2018 by DJMortimer

[gandiaowl]

Jordon Rhodes created two excellent chances for Joao yesterday. Both created by chasing to win the ball to provide these chances.   In addition, he made some intelligent runs to get Ito scoring positions himself where he was stopped from scoring by very good goalkeeping.   He is playing infrequently and always with different strikers around him.   He will start banging in the goals once the squad is settled into an attacking formation.

Edited January 22, 2018 by gandiaowl

[torryowl]

15 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

Point stands i'm afraid

 

The most expensive player in our history by some distance shouldn't need a queue of fanboys excusing his pitiful return

 

Carbone was given a lot of leeway for being f*cking brilliant for the most part - the FF of his day (albeit a better version) - but his desire to be paid what he felt he was worth split the fanbase asunder - and he was vilified by many who had previously been smitten by him

 

Sinton got loads of stick on messageboards albeit retrospectively - there isn't a lot of love for him among Wednesdayites. Pembridge not so much in my recall but was ultimately unable to fill the boots vacated by Wilson

 

I'm sorry but there are no more excuses for JR - doesn't mean he cannot come good under this new regime

 

But it doesn't alter the fact he has thus far represented the most disappointing signing in our modern history - all things considered

that's got to be abdi ....Rhodes created 2 chances yesterday which is more then abdi has done in 2 seasons .......

[scram]

Abdi cost nothing like as much - about a third of the cost of Rhodes i believe

 

Has had nothing like the chances in his preferred position - pretty much never played in his best position

 

Abdi has received a fraction of the goodwill and faith of the fanbase

 

And certainly wasn't purchased with the remit of scoring the goals to fire us to promotion

 

It's a crass comparison

[DJMortimer]

8 minutes ago, gandiaowl said:

Jordon Rhodes created two excellent chances for Joao yesterday. Both created by chasing to win the ball to provide these chances.   In addition, he made some intelligent runs to get Ito scoring positions himself where he was stopped from scoring by very good goalkeeping.   He is playing infrequently and always with different strikers around him.   He will start banging in the goals once the squad is settled into an attacking formation.

 

£7-10 million, 12 months, 47 appearances, 9 goals.

 

Since mid-October 2015 he's scored 19 goals for 3 clubs (Kieran Lee has scored 13 in that period from central midfield, Adam Reach 11 from out wide).

 

How long in the past does his purple period have to be, how many clubs and managers does it need to involve, how many excuses must be worn out?

 

[GY-owl.4]

I didnt want him.

 

I thought if we did buy him he would do alright, (alot better than he has!) but i didnt want him, 

 

not really because of him, but i was happy with who we had up there. ive always rated Hooper, FF has to play and i had loads of belief that Joao would continue to improve, (with game time) Fletcher brings a wealth of experience from top flight footy and 2 days previous we had brought Winnall in who was flying at Barnsley.

 

I knew we was short at CB, our full backs wasnt good enough for the way CC wanted us to play and we had no-one in CM to come in when Hutch was injured. 

 

this lopsided balance within the squad cost us big time. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by GY-owl.4

[jonnyowl]

All Jordan Rhodes had to do was to put that chance he had just before half time in the back of the net!

 

He's in the team to finish off chances, problem is, we aren't creating that many for him and he's not taking the ones he does get.

 

So on that basis he's probably not worth a place in the team, but at the moment who are you going to play up front?

 

Personally I would like to see what Jos can do with him, get everyone fit, play 3-5-2 with Hooper behind Foriesteri and Rhodes for a solid 7 to 10 games, if we have Reach at left wing back with Bannan and Lee in midfield and he still can't score goals then get rid!