Players not without blame

[james o connor]

Of course the players need criticism .

 

westwood has been poor 

lees has been poor 

hunt has been poor 

loovens shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

Wallace shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

fletcher is awful 

Rhodes has been poor 

van aken is having a mare 

 

only bannan , hooper and to a lesser extent reach can say they have done enough 

 

Team needed freshening up and we are still crying out for mobility yet the idiots that run the club still can’t see it

[pgmetcalf]

A bad workman always blames his tools

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

25 minutes ago, james o connor said:

Of course the players need criticism .

 

westwood has been poor 

lees has been poor 

hunt has been poor 

loovens shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

Wallace shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

fletcher is awful 

Rhodes has been poor 

van aken is having a mare 

 

only bannan , hooper and to a lesser extent reach can say they have done enough 

 

Team needed freshening up and we are still crying out for mobility yet the idiots that run the club still can’t see it

Agree with all this except the Westwood part.  He hasn't been poor, just hasn't reached his own high levels from the last few seasons.

[Jennz]

7 hours ago, kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

Evening ladies and gents.

 

Amongst all the Carlos out posts, little seems to have been mentioned of the players. I have seen so many posts along the lines of 'Carlos can't get the best out of the players', 'Carlos has lost the dressing room', 'Players don't want to play for him' etc.

 

Whilst CC is not averse from criticism, personally, there are a few players who need to take a long hard look at their performances, and ask themselves, if they, as professional footballers, playing for our great club, have given everything each and every match. 

 

I noted recently that in response to a question, Carlos stated that although there is a game plan, he gives autonomy to players on the pitch to react and counter what is presented before then. If that is the case, then many of our players need to really be ashamed at what they have delivered.

 

Ultimately, the manager will carry the can and pay the price for results, but for all those lambasting Carlos, in a quiet moment of reflection, don't underestimate that our squad individually and collectively have performed way below expectations. Carlos will no doubt be blamed by many for that, but once play starts, those players have the responsibility to put in a shift and a performance. Carlos has his faults, but he is not responsible solely for our current form.

 

I'll start by saying that I don't believe for a second that the players aren't trying their best every game.....do they play to the limit of their ability every game?, of course not, no one does, players lose form, doesn't mean they aren't working hard or trying to be on song.

 

Carlos saying he gives autonomy to react & counter is pretty much a given, unless he's telling them specifically 'not' do something, it's football, it's about reaction & countering, most sport is......if he gives them a game plan parts of it might well hinder what they instinctively want to do, that's not their fault....unless a player is deliberately playing against the manager's wishes or is not trying on purpose then I don't see how any blame can be pushed onto them......unless you want to 'blame' any of them for being out of form or losing confidence.

[billyblack]

Agreed. its not right. howeber look at chelsea before they got rid of mourinho. leicester when they they got rid of ranieri. wasnt working anymore.

[torres]

9 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

I agree the players have got off a bit lightly with the flak flying around recently with much of the focus on CC.

 

I am surprised he says the players have a lot of autonomy on the pitch as they seem really over coached and play like robots.

 

Bar Bannan this season I’ve not seen anyone run with a bit of fire in their belly!

(maybe Hunt too)

 

Having said this most of the current team can’t run so I might be being a bit harsh 

 

[brando]

9 hours ago, Bronco Blue said:

Please don't be hard on the players. Many of them are getting on in years and can't run around like they used to do.

haha unfortuneatly this is true

[sternlad]

OP makes a good point. It’s the most difficult thing about the game to be able to spot what’s not working or how the opposition are changing their tactics whilst involved in the game on the pitch. Of course when it has been spotted you’ve then got to be a strong enough leader or character to be taken notice of on the pitch by fellow players. I’m not sure the Wednesday players communicate enough, especially from set pieces where the opposition look threatening every time for me. The playmakers job is to run the show and know when to change things, it’s a real gift if you’ve got it (Sheridan, Hoddle, Etc.) , Bannan is a good little player but I don’t think he’s got an ‘adaptable’brain if things aren’t going to the set plan.

How anyone can see these subtle changes in tactics and position at pitch level is beyond me, be it coaches or players? If it were me I’d want a camera at the back of the Kop and a laptop linked to it on my knee in the dug out.

[fife_owl]

The players don’t under-achieve if they know that they will be dropped / punished if they do.

 

Two players per position is useless if the manager doesn’t use it.

 

I think Wednesday are missing a vocal leader on the pitch just now.  Hutch will provide that - but he’s not available often enough.  Need to sign a proper “boss on the pitch”.

[Hack-Abusi]

3 hours ago, james o connor said:

Of course the players need criticism .

 

westwood has been poor 

lees has been poor 

hunt has been poor 

loovens shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

Wallace shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

fletcher is awful 

Rhodes has been poor 

van aken is having a mare 

only bannan , hooper and to a lesser extent reach can say they have done enough 

Team needed freshening up and we are still crying out for mobility yet the idiots that run the club still can’t see it

I think Hunts been alright this season - issue is when Wallace is playing he has actually no cover what so ever so tends to end up doing the job of 2 players, added to the fact that he's meant to be an outlet as well!

 

 

[james o connor]

2 minutes ago, Hack-Abusi said:

I think Hunts been alright this season - issue is when Wallace is playing he has actually no cover what so ever so tends to end up doing the job of 2 players, added to the fact that he's meant to be an outlet as well!

 

 

Hunt hasn’t been shocking , neither has Westwood . Both are down on last years performances though . To be fair to hunt I think he’s been carrying injury like 99% of the squad. Makes a mockery of sacking the physios 

[owlmanc]

3 hours ago, james o connor said:

Of course the players need criticism .

 

westwood has been poor 

lees has been poor 

hunt has been poor 

loovens shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

Wallace shouldn’t be anywhere near the team 

fletcher is awful 

Rhodes has been poor 

van aken is having a mare 

 

only bannan , hooper and to a lesser extent reach can say they have done enough 

 

Team needed freshening up and we are still crying out for mobility yet the idiots that run the club still can’t see it

I don't think Venancio has put a foot wrong either 

[mcmigo]

The defence is creaking but I looked at old Loovens on Saturday and I bet he wondered where it had all gone wrong.

He has Jones in front of him who is wretched at almost every aspect of the game, constantly gave away free kicks as he was so far behind play and lost the ball under pressure over and over again. He had van aken alongside him who has no idea what he is doing. His full backs managed to somehow offer nothing going forwards and also were out of place defensively constantly and finally his two half decent option for an outball ie short to bannan or long to hooper didn’t work as both had stinkers

.

[Bob]

Of course players are not blameless, but the way Carlos waffles on to the press, just imagine what he's like with the players, I'd switch off, which is what is probably happening.

 

Many times players are stale and under achieving until a new man takes over and they pick up, only got to look at Everton now with Big Sam

[steelowl]

1 minute ago, james o connor said:

Hunt hasn’t been shocking , neither has Westwood . Both are down on last years performances though . To be fair to hunt I think he’s been carrying injury like 99% of the squad. Makes a mockery of sacking the physios 

 

This really needs sorting out, sacking the last team was a drastic measure as the long term relationships and knowledge the sacked guys had was lost  the fresh guys presumably had records and notes to work from however the situation isn't getting better is it?

 

However I have no idea if the level or specific type of injuries is in fact extraordinary and just luck or is there some deep underlying reason in the diet, prep, conditioning or training facilities ?  If I were DC spending multi millions on unusable players this would be way up there ahead of TVs and messing with kits tbh

 

[james o connor]

8 minutes ago, steelowl said:

 

This really needs sorting out, sacking the last team was a drastic measure as the long term relationships and knowledge the sacked guys had was lost  the fresh guys presumably had records and notes to work from however the situation isn't getting better is it?

 

However I have no idea if the level or specific type of injuries is in fact extraordinary and just luck or is there some deep underlying reason in the diet, prep, conditioning or training facilities ?  If I were DC spending multi millions on unusable players this would be way up there ahead of TVs and messing with kits tbh

 

Exactly I can’t understand why the owner would want to persist with a failing manager, back room staff  and players . Baffling 

[WorrallOwl17]

Personally I think it's CC draining the life out of the players. Holding them back, his cautious safety first fun second approach is killing our players and on very, very good authority training is a shambles and CC doesn't have the respect of many of our players because of his quality of training sessions

[Hack-Abusi]

1 hour ago, james o connor said:

Hunt hasn’t been shocking , neither has Westwood . Both are down on last years performances though . To be fair to hunt I think he’s been carrying injury like 99% of the squad. Makes a mockery of sacking the physios 

Yeah, I'd say the same for Loovens as well, rushed back to try and stabilise a wilting backline but probably doing more harm than good him not being fit ..

 

didn't we sack all the physios as well because of injuries last season .. seems we are worse without them and they probably did a good job last term!

[DIPPS_S.W.F.C]

Hooper Bannan Westwood only players to turn up.this season..And Nuhihu for an hr.

[cookeh]

There's multiple sides to this.

It does feel like we haven't really progressed the squad as we should have, there's a clear lack of confidence which is affecting most of the squad, party because of their own performances, but also because of a pretty toxic(tm) atmosphere around the club for most of this season.

 

For me it seems like we don't have that belief anymore, once we were 2-1 down against Norwich we looked like we were just going to lose another goal. The workrate dropped, we weren't fighting to get back into it, it almost looked like we'd just accepted our fate.

 

GK: Westwood's still fine.

RB: Hunt and Palmer as still not quite good enough. That's been the case for a few years, we've made the playoffs with them tho, so.. I don't feel like either are not trying, but neither really makes anything good happen.
LB: Pudil is 32 and not getting younger. Fox is passable, but should really be the back up. Again this is a position where we're probably acceptable if the rest of the team was solid. Fox is trying and has done ok, imo.
CB: What a mess. Lees injured and off form. Loovens, too old, too slow (completely lost his man for Norwich to score their 2nd). Venancio apparently a non-person. van Aken has potential, but lacks confidence and isn't at his best. We really needed to sort this for 2 years now. Venancio can't be so bad he can't get into the starting line up how we are right now.

RM: Again.. this is a mess. Wallace tries, but it seems like his legs are gone. He's that bit slower both running and pulling off his tricks, so nothing much comes off for him now. Boyd can't come back soon enough, but even then, they're both 32.
LM: Reach is decent and works hard. Doesn't always come off for him. We do miss Nando out here, but how we fit him in i don't know.
CM: Bannan trying to do the job of two. Jones is slow and predictable. Lee looks like a different player from last year. Hutch is no where to be seen. Likewise Abdi. Butterfield looked like he might have the start of a partnership with Bannan, but got yanked for being anonymous at Hull. We wont have a stable midfield unless we let them play together. Half of my wants to try van Aken in here. he's big, but also decent on the ball.. and he could make the odd mistake in this position without it costing a goal. Build him up then lot him drop into the back 4.
ST: Good players. Trying. Getting little service. I expected more from Fletch this season. Only just noticed how little Rhodes has actually played. less that 1000 minutes. Only played 60+ minutes 7 times this season and scored 5 goals in those games. Hooper's doing ok. But they all need better service.

 

So we need to sort out right mid, defensive mid and centerback. And we've kind needed to do that for 2 years now.. it's sad that we haven't. Hopefully Boyd sorts out one of those positions when he comes back. If not then Nando playing down the right. Can Butterfield do the defensive job behind Bannan (letting him get forward more), remains to be seen. Centerback sorely needs a loan to add someone in January.

 

The main problem tho is confidence. We all complain about the 'negative' play, players looking for the sideways or backwards pass. SUre, sometimes that's Carlos' instruction, and his comments after Reading were just stupid. But a big part of it is also confidence. They don't want to risk giving the ball away because the fans will get on their backs, so they take the safe option. Maybe Nando coming back, and lifting the crowd by beating players will spark the rest of them into playing that way again, but right now we're in this messed up downwards spiral which seems like it can only end in the manager going and a recovery coming with the clean slate that a new appointment brings.