Lucas Joao

[gurujuan]

38 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

What is it with you & Rhodes?

 

Ever since we were linked with him you've had a non stop campaign of talking him down.

 

"Doesn't have Joao's natural talent though",   " Despite the limitations"????

 

Once again, the ridiculous misguided hindsight tendency so prevalent on Owlstalk. 

 

Joao scores a couple of very ordinary goals and suddenly he's better than someone who has been doing it year in year out for as long as you can remember.

 

Just flick back a few pages on here and the vitriol against Joao is beyond belief.

 

You also claim in another post that Rhodes does nothing else than score. I assume you go to games (?) so therefore also assume you have seen him covering every blade of grass, winning just about every 50/50 header and therefore assume, that on this subject, you are just another attention seeking wind up merchant.

 

I do not understand the point in slagging off any Wednesday player, whether it's Joao, Rhodes, Reach, Sasso or anyone else. It is counter productive, corrosive and serves no other purpose than to demotivate players and further stimulate the negative tendency on here that to be honest needs no encouragement.

 

Are you so one dimensional, that for once, with one of the most important games of the season coming up, you can't let go of your personal prejudice against Rhodes, for whatever reason this is, and just work on the basis that if they pull a Wednesday shirt on, we get behind them whoever it is. 

 

I suspect not, because you've probably got nothing else to say.

 

  

 

 

 

I have plenty to say, and always say it. My stance on Joao has nothing to do with hindsight, my view on him has been consistent. I've given my thoughts on what I feel Rhodes offers, and why I feel Carlos has chosen to move for him. This is how the manager wants to play, and he selects the players he feels best fit the system. So I feel that playing a different system, that perhaps wouldn't include Jordan Rhodes, might pay better dividends. It's just an opinion, and it actually might be more entertaining. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

Opinions not that helpful really.

 

Not really 

[bigthinrob]

6 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

 

I have plenty to say, and always say it. My stance on Joao has nothing to do with hindsight, my view on him has been consistent. I've given my thoughts on what I feel Rhodes offers, and why I feel Carlos has chosen to move for him. This is how the manager wants to play, and he selects the players he feels best fit the system. So I feel that playing a different system, that perhaps wouldn't include Jordan Rhodes, might pay better dividends. It's just an opinion, and it actually might be more entertaining. 

 

I trawled back through some old posts in the hope of tripping you up regarding Joao and am forced to retract what i said. 

 

As you say, your view has been consistent and nothing to do with hindsight in relation to Joao. So apologies for that.

 

I do still maintain though that your constant sniping against Rhodes, dressed up as constructive criticism is unwarranted and at times grossly unfair.

 

 

 

 

Also this quote below from FEB 12th (nothing to do with you i hasten to add) is typical of the attitude towards Joao at the time prior to the revisionist adoration following his recent heroics. 

 

"I love how he's apparently amazing and there is a player there blah blah blah . Based on what ? A couple of games over a year ago.

shocking attitude , mentally and physically weak and one of the worst goals to games ratios of all time. 

We have move down on, got better and his time here is surely at an end, thankfully".

 

And they say a week is a long time in POLITICS!!!!

[ANDY]

Question regarding Joao loan deal....

 

if its til the end of the season, does that mean he will be available for us if we do make the play offs as technically Blackburns season will have finished

 

 

 

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 minute ago, ANDY said:

Question regarding Joao loan deal....

 

if its til the end of the season, does that mean he will be available for us if we do make the play offs as technically Blackburns season will have finished

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that's a bloody good question

[ANDY]

1 minute ago, Holmes said:

 

 

Now that's a bloody good question

 

 

if his scoring streak continues, we would be getting a striker full of confidence and scoring for fun

 

 

[Guest RocketOwl]

He's brilliant. Will play for Portugal one day.

[gurujuan]

36 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

I trawled back through some old posts in the hope of tripping you up regarding Joao and am forced to retract what i said. 

 

As you say, your view has been consistent and nothing to do with hindsight in relation to Joao. So apologies for that.

 

I do still maintain though that your constant sniping against Rhodes, dressed up as constructive criticism is unwarranted and at times grossly unfair.

 

 

 

 

Also this quote below from FEB 12th (nothing to do with you i hasten to add) is typical of the attitude towards Joao at the time prior to the revisionist adoration following his recent heroics. 

 

"I love how he's apparently amazing and there is a player there blah blah blah . Based on what ? A couple of games over a year ago.

shocking attitude , mentally and physically weak and one of the worst goals to games ratios of all time. 

We have move down on, got better and his time here is surely at an end, thankfully".

 

And they say a week is a long time in POLITICS!!!!

 

Fair enough mate, my thoughts on Rhodes are best summed up by my post at the top of the page. My main gripe, and it's only reflected on here, never at games, is about the way we play, and I guess the signing of Rhodes, to my mind, meant more of the same. I've tried to buy into it, but I'm just not enjoying the games in the way that I did last season. How I feel about what's happening is we've turned from a very exciting side, not the finished article by any stretch of the imagination, but one with endless posiibilities, into a solid top end championship side. We are effective, but extremely dull, and I'm not sure there are any more gears to go through. It's only my view of course, and there are plenty who would disagree, but I feel this is the place to put that view across, on this forum, and not at the ground. Rest assured, I am 100% behind any player wearing the shirt when it comes to going to the games.

[Inspector Lestrade]

19 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

 

I trawled back through some old posts in the hope of tripping you up regarding Joao and am forced to retract what i said. 

 

As you say, your view has been consistent and nothing to do with hindsight in relation to Joao. So apologies for that.

 

I do still maintain though that your constant sniping against Rhodes, dressed up as constructive criticism is unwarranted and at times grossly unfair.

 

 

 

 

Also this quote below from FEB 12th (nothing to do with you i hasten to add) is typical of the attitude towards Joao at the time prior to the revisionist adoration following his recent heroics. 

 

"I love how he's apparently amazing and there is a player there blah blah blah . Based on what ? A couple of games over a year ago.

shocking attitude , mentally and physically weak and one of the worst goals to games ratios of all time. 

We have move down on, got better and his time here is surely at an end, thankfully".

 

And they say a week is a long time in POLITICS!!!!

 

 

Respect.

 

[Dagmeister]

3 hours ago, RocketOwl said:

Joao will achieve more in his career than Rhodes.

 

At Joao age Rhodes had just got going too.

To be fair Rhodes scored 29 in a season in the Championship at Joao's age

[Bluey9]

All about service, Rhodes must be gutted with what he's received upto now.

 

 

[Weshallovercome]

42 minutes ago, RocketOwl said:

He's brilliant. Will play for Portugal one day.

 

 

He's already played for Portugal, Rory.......please keep up.

[Guest RocketOwl]

1 minute ago, Weshallovercome said:

 

 

He's already played for Portugal, Rory.......please keep up.

Kind of my point.

[Walt]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

 

No, I said, they are completely different types of player. I'm not underplaying what Rhodes does, far from it, at this level, he's one of the best there are. Football is changing though, the better clubs need more from a forward than just an ability to put the ball in the net. Having that type of player does not usually equate to having a successful team, just look at Jordan's career.

There will still be a role for that type of player further down the leagues, but in the Premier League, and even at the top end of the Championship, clubs are looking for a little more. As for Joao, well he is capable of doing things most of our other strikers can't, but crucially, he doesn't do it anywhere near often enough. Although I don't necessarily agree with the route Carlos is going down, I can see that he feels he is better served by tried and tested players. We'll just have to see how that works out, but to my mind, we've lost something this season.

See what I said about fads in football, one up front doesn't suit Rhodes. Football is cyclical, players like Rhodes will be worth their weight in gold again when teams start going with two up front. Three at the back has been making a come back so this allows for teams to have two up front without being out numbered midfield. Re. the 'role for this type of player down the leagues' I take it if Lineker or Rush had been playing nowadays they'd be in the Championship?

 

Just for balance I did not want us to sign Rhodes, I wanted us to sign an absolute flyer up front and a centre half as I thought that would suit us better. I thought we had a better or just as good version of Rhodes in Hooper (who imo had a better all round game). I have been surprised at how good in the air Rhodes is and the space that he creates for others. He's also a more intelligent footballer than I had originally thought. 

[gurujuan]

53 minutes ago, Walt said:

See what I said about fads in football, one up front doesn't suit Rhodes. Football is cyclical, players like Rhodes will be worth their weight in gold again when teams start going with two up front. Three at the back has been making a come back so this allows for teams to have two up front without being out numbered midfield. Re. the 'role for this type of player down the leagues' I take it if Lineker or Rush had been playing nowadays they'd be in the Championship?

 

Just for balance I did not want us to sign Rhodes, I wanted us to sign an absolute flyer up front and a centre half as I thought that would suit us better. I thought we had a better or just as good version of Rhodes in Hooper (who imo had a better all round game). I have been surprised at how good in the air Rhodes is and the space that he creates for others. He's also a more intelligent footballer than I had originally thought. 

 

And that's also fair comment, I too, as someone who believed we already had that type of player in Hooper, couldn't see the logic in bringing in Rhodes. Don't get me wrong, if money's no object, the more the merrier. My main point about the signing of Rhodes and Winnall was, if Hooper wasn't prolific in the system we play, what makes us think those two will be. Like you, watching Rhodes, there is a bit more to his game than I first thought, but he is just as hamstrung by the way that we play, as all the others have been. The one player who thrives, despite the tactics, is Forestieri because he can create goals himself, but even he might be better in a different system

Edited March 15, 2017 by gurujuan

[Essix Blue]

Let's be honest here - the vast majority of fans thought it a good move for Joao to go on loan, he needed a good run of games which it seems he's getting. 

 

Now I do recall someone posting some comments on here from BBurn fans after Joao's first game or 2 and they slated him, said he was shybo so let's not get carried away just yet. 

 

Hes obviously got 'something', but it was obvious he needed to adapt more to the English game - and he had to learn that by playing. So it's a win - win for us, come the end of the season if he's improved we get a player back and our options improve. 

[trevdi9]

that's about it Essix

 

[S36 OWL]

6 hours ago, gurujuan said:

 

In the lower leagues yes, the higher up you go, you have to be a more complete forward 

 

So you think Joao has more chance of scoring in the prem than Rhodes ? 

[gurujuan]

1 hour ago, S36 OWL said:

 

So you think Joao has more chance of scoring in the prem than Rhodes ? 

 

I think Rhodes has very little chance of making an impact at that level, and yes, Joao has more of the attributes needed to be successful in the Premier League

[Socialist_Owl]

3 hours ago, raljex said:

Joao has more ability than Fletcher has ever had or Winnall ever will have.

 

How far he can go with that talent is another question but he has the ability to play in the league above where we are currently.

His ability was NEVER in question.

 

It was his maturity and mental fortitude.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Socialist_Owl