M Royds Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 He missed points 12 &13 12. I am aware that some Leeds United fanatics purposely obtained tickets for the stands reserved for Sheffield Wednesday fanatics and took to their seats to observe the game......This makes a mockery of any buffer zone, however large you make it, and I hope the full weight of the law will be brought against such Leeds United fanatics 13. Please ignore point 12 as I have just realised I am referring to myself and as we all know what applies to the general public shouldn't apply to me as an MP Hypocrite That's something I have been asking. I should get my finger out and email him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milanowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Goading Warnock - who in the past has joked about taking over Wednesday and running the club into the ground, and who loves the pantomime villian approach - is not the same as goading Jones with untrue allegations which scarred him as a person and jeopardised his career and his freedom, and anyone who mentions them in similar context is a cretin. Same with "die, die piggy"... it ain't nice, but is anyone actually threatnening to kill, or mocking the dead? No. Taunts about Turkey are very different though, and we deserve the rap for that. But Saville stuff, Jones, broken hoardings, throwing seats, and what Cawley did... plus the back-slapping and smuggling out of the sight of stewards and police that followed...if that doesn't deserve a hefty away ban, I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Whilst that's debatable - let's not just choose the one solitary point we disagree with Overall that's a solid letter from Mr Mann Is that the 'Royal We' Neil? As it certainly isn't the only point I disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Is that the 'Royal We' Neil? As it certainly isn't the only point I disagree with. I dont' know what you mean re: royal we What other points do you disagree with ? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alco Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 instead of a bigger buffer zone maybe we should just give leeds the top tier and nowt else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattitheowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 He loves a bit of drama by the sound of it this guy. In all it is hard to disagree with the points made but some of the stuff he implies or suggests is way way over the top. His points about Paddy Kenny and Neil Warnock being abused are a bit laughable in the scheme of things. The 'riot' in the north stand is MASSIVEly over played and the chanting by the Leeds fans seems somewhat underplayed. And his point about checking membership cards is moot, the LUFC away membership cards have no picture so how do they know the name on it is yours, even if it is checked? I'm also certain that not all 5300 tickets would be checked against membership at any away game, it would just be a sample. Just not bothered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Surprised he has not mentioned the smoke bomb which was an idiotic thing for a fan to do. While I sit on the kop so cannot say with certainty I thought the riot police belatedly came from the back of stands to stand in front of the Leeds "fans". His statement that they were stood in front of our fans prior to moving to the Leeds end is factually incorrect and his sneaky way of suggesting that fans on the north were "rioting" and therefore the reason the police were not there to stop the fan getting on the pitch. Sneaky barstewards these MP's, and well used to using innuendo rather than facts to get things across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiffowl06 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Ah yes, another couple of thousand seats segregation will do the trick the existing 2,000 seats didn't. We already have the largest forced segregation in the football league... Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It appears to be a good letter and gives a balanced view of events. Some of the events stated by Mr Mann are debatable, however, I am glad to see that Mr Mann has omitted some of the 'emotive' terms that he appeared to use whilst initially talking to the media. I challenged him about these emotive terms in my email conversation with him (that I published with his permission in the thread that I started) and, at that point, when replying to me he seemed certain that he was using appropriate terms. I am relieved to see that he hasn't reported Paddy Kenny for acting inappropriately when he 'mooned' the Kop. The fact that these 'emotive' terms have changed and that he hasn't reported 'all and sundry' may suggest that the assumption is correct that he penned the letter after gathering the views of supporters (possibly OwlsTalk?). It could be argued that the letter is also quite brave. He is very damning of the Leeds United supporters - given that he is one them he could have easily haven chosen not to write this letter. I was quite concerned when I discovered that a politician had become involved with this whole sorry affair, however, I now feel more confident that the situation is being handled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sailmaker Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 For me, the one striking omission from John Mann MP’s letter would be: 12. The evocative, melodramatic and one-sided use of the word “rioting†in connection with Sheffield Wednesday supporters by an influential Leeds United supporting MP. “That stand where the Sheffield Wednesday fans were rioting should also be shut for a match.†This quote was widely circulated internationally and is still in circulation (including on the BBC website) and may have mistakenly diverted attention away from the attack on Chris Kirkland. It may have also tarnished the good reputation that Sheffield Wednesday FC enjoys around the world. I have therefore made the deliberate decision not to use the evocative word “riot†or “rioting†when describing the actions of either set of supporters within this 1,500 word letter. It is well known that I am a man who is quick to speak his mind, but I am also generous with my apologies once I realise that I have overstepped the mark. I therefore would like to use this letter as an opportunity to apologise to the thousands of good and decent Sheffield Wednesday supporters, both in my own constituency and elsewhere, whom I may have offended with my remark to the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfmanjack Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Whilst that's debatable - let's not just choose the one solitary point we disagree with Overall that's a solid letter from Mr Mann After the email debate I had with Mr Mann on Saturday regarding his comments on local radio about the events at Hillsborough, I'm quite surprised by the content of the letter, which I think contains a lot of reasonable points, and my opinion of him having read the letter, has changed considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 give leeds the m1 junction at their end jobs a good un , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirodo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 instead of a bigger buffer zone maybe we should just give leeds the top tier and nowt else The Leeds fans can watch the match at home on TV and we'll watch it at Hillsborough. That sounds like a big enough buffer zone to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thats a very fair reflection of events and considerably toned down from his phone call to radio 5 after the game. A gracious apology too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 For me, the one striking omission from John Mann MP’s letter would be: 12. The evocative, melodramatic and one-sided use of the word “rioting†in connection with Sheffield Wednesday supporters by an influential Leeds United supporting MP. “That stand where the Sheffield Wednesday fans were rioting should also be shut for a match.†This quote was widely circulated internationally and is still in circulation (including on the BBC website) and may have mistakenly diverted attention away from the attack on Chris Kirkland. It may have also tarnished the good reputation that Sheffield Wednesday FC enjoys around the world. I have therefore made the deliberate decision not to use the evocative word “riot†or “rioting†when describing the actions of either set of supporters within this 1,500 word letter. It is well known that I am a man who is quick to speak his mind, but I am also generous with my apologies once I realise that I have overstepped the mark. I therefore would like to use this letter as an opportunity to apologise to the thousands of good and decent Sheffield Wednesday supporters, both in my own constituency and elsewhere, whom I may have offended with my remark to the media. You see then the danger of the modern media world we all live in - only minutes after the final whistle those comments, made by your own admission in the heat of the moment, and the full details of the offender Cawley were simultaneously circulating around the country. You will notice from the recent heated debates on this site's boardroom section, that the microscope Hillsborough is constantly subjected to upsets many, so the term riot was always going to inflame people. The events on Friday were poor, but not entirely unexpected. The behaviour of a minority does tend to tar everyone with the same brush. Many of the perpetrators on Friday, just simply reflect the wider society we live in. Smashing up seats, advert boards, toilets and kiosk shutters is behaviour, which now seems almost acceptable to the authorities. Perhaps politicians need to take some responsibility and change the legal system that puts deterrents in place rather than unenforceable banning orders and weak sentences - unless you've strayed near the Cambridge boat oar’s that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian joicey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 A bigger buffer zone? I'm sure ours is already the biggest one going. The Geordies and mackems were separated by a single line of stewards! The "abuse" of Neil Warnock has to be kept in context. Neil Warnock has gone on record with the fact that he accepts he is the "pantomime villain" at grounds - Hillsborough especially - and has gone on record with his admiration for our club and our support despite being subjected to such "abuse" for years, with the most recent public praise for our club being as recent as last week. By contrast, Dave Jones is a man who had his career (and by all accounts, his life) turned upside down and dragged through the gutter by spurious and false claims about his private life. Claims and lies he has spent the last 12 years dealing with and the last 12 years being reminded of by football supporters. The two things aren't even REMOTELY the same and context HAS to be applied here. I'm very disappointed that an MP, and therefore a person of authority and supposed intellect, has failed to identify that in what is otherwise a rather sensible letter. He missed points 12 &13 12. I am aware that some Leeds United fanatics purposely obtained tickets for the stands reserved for Sheffield Wednesday fanatics and took to their seats to observe the game......This makes a mockery of any buffer zone, however large you make it, and I hope the full weight of the law will be brought against such Leeds United fanatics 13. Please ignore point 12 as I have just realised I am referring to myself and as we all know what applies to the general public shouldn't apply to me as an MP Hypocrite so basically,after 40 odd years of watching football, he doesn't understand the basic 'ins and outs' of what goes on and what it all means ...about right for an MP then i suppose. and yet here he is making 'recomendations' about something he clearly doesn't understand the mechanics of ... bizzare indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatfordOwl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Very solid letter but relying on the FA to take action as a pre emptive measure or to dish out punishment is probably as wishful thinking as it gets. We'll see the same scenario played out that has blighted the game for as long as I can remember of it not being an issue until its one of the big clubs it occurs with and by that point it will be too late and something terrible will no doubt have happened. I think Mr Mann makes a very valid point other having a tinderbox of a game held on a Friday night especially when you hear about how Aaron Cawley as out on the p.iss the whole day before getting into the ground (wtf were the stewards thinking??) and 'these' games should be left to being policed rather than attended by stewards. We as a club should simply ban Leeds from having away fans at our ground.....I wouldn't really miss going to Elland Road if I'm honest as it's the same level of intimidation as to what a number of people endured at Hillsborough on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lees Tom Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mr Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) maybe he should have pointed out that, even with the abuse aimed at Warnock, kenny etc no Wednesday fan took it upon themselves to enter the field of play and carry out ABH ! Edited October 22, 2012 by andrewowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 85 seats, 4 urinals and one kiosk's shuttering all in West Stand. Damage in North stand nil nada flip all Mr Mann? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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