Mr mann mp letter to FA ragarding Leeds match

[@owlstalk]

People who run onto the pitch should be made to STAY on it instead of trying to get them off it

Imagine... some loony runs on the pitch and can't get off it

They'd look REYT idiots after a few minutes

[Guest s17owl]

Mr Manns wife - Mrs Mann hehe

[Guest on the band wagon]

More balanced and calmer than his previous offerings, still a bit dramatic, he does like the phrase" fanatics". Would agree with most of what he has to say

[Essix Blue]

Good letter that.

But no matter what the L33ds fans did - yet again it highlighted how embarrassing that section of the North stand is.

[modboy]

3 things from afar

• Ive sat in that area of the North before and seen our fans assault a middle aged couple (50 yrs olds+) who supported the opposition but took a risk and sat in the home end. It was pretty horrible tbh, they threw him and his wife down some steps whilst the stewards watched on. Think this was versus Norwich, those well known hooligans a few seasons ago. All he did was a sat down air punch when they scored. Wont sit back in this part of the ground again as it has a certain atmosphere
  

• although not as bad as the DJ songs i cringe when we sing anti warnock, blades songs... support OUR team and players ffs
  

• who threw the flair when we scored? Genuine question as couldnt tell on the TV, presumed it was our fans
  

[Essix Blue]

Flair came from South Stand. There were 'fans' in the toilets at HT bragging about it

[@owlstalk]

Flair came from South Stand. There were 'fans' in the toilets at HT bragging about it

It was pink

[Guest Bedders]

i emailed mr mann regarding fridays nights match and he sent me a copy of the letter he sent to the f.a

here it is discuss

David Bernstein

Chief Executive

Football Association

Wembley Stadium

London

20 October 2012

Sheffield Wednesday v Leeds United 19 October 2012

I had the unfortunate opportunity to witness the disgraceful scenes at Hillsborough on Friday and had a good vantage point in direct sight of the trouble.

I believe that it is important that the FA act promptly and very precisely on this issue. Sheffield Wednesday have a good reputation in my area, but I note from recent work I have done in schools that only a tiny proportion of children in my area ever go to professional football matches and the vast majority have never attended a match at Hillsborough or elsewhere.

Yet my area has the highest involvement in junior football anywhere in England: in other words kids love football but rarely attend the professional game. I am hoping this night will neither deter them or their parents.

(As a separate point of interest I am currently rectifying this mismatch by organising a programme to take 11 years olds who have never visited a match to a big game. Thankfully Friday was not on the list. I will write to you separately on this programme as it develops).

I would break down the issues of concern into eleven headings:

1. The Attack on Chris Kirkland

A violent attack which requires an effective FA response. I witnessed the thug slowly saunter back into the crowd and be allowed to disappear. I am certain he will be apprehended and successfully prosecuted, but the issue should not rest there.

The FA must establish unambiguously a policy of zero tolerance of any fanatic going onto the pitch and this requires the club and the collective of fans to be punished in every instance. I called after the game for Leeds supporters to face a ban from a future away match and this must happen.

I happen to have followed Leeds for 48 years and I had family in the Leeds end on Friday. Without question the mass of travelling fans have to take a responsibility for self policing and the FA must expect them to do so.

Interestingly my young relatives disagree with me, as they are part of the decent majority, but they are wrong. The law abiding majority has a responsibility for the actions of the minority. This will help change away supporters culture, which remains an Achilles heel of the professional game.

2. Disturbing chanting by Leeds fanatics about Jimmy Saville and David Jones

The Jones abuse is not new, and not limited to Leeds, and the chants glorying Saville plumbed a new depth. Neither is of course acceptable, but I note that LUFC have failed to act on the Saville chants. Where is the leadership from the club on this abuse? The Jones abuse is also predictable. Why are no abusers identified and banned or indeed prosecuted?

3. Chants glorifying the death of Leeds fans in Turkey and repeated obscene abuse of Neil Warnock

These were again sadly predictable. The Turkey abuse, which solely came from the hard core of home fanatics seated next to the Leeds fans is limited to a few clubs and requires FA action. It is significant that this provocation was from adjoining fanatics. The Warnock abuse was widespread and constant and on several occasions encouraged by what I understand to be the England band. If this band is to be given access to England matches it has a responsibility to lead standards of decency in stadia not to undermine them.

4. Violence in the stands

I witnessed violence in the North and Leppings Lane stands from both sets of fanatics including attacks on the stewards and police for the 10 minutes before the attack on Chris Kirkland. Of particular danger were seats hurled onto their own supporters from the top tier of Leppings Lane by Leeds fanatics. My nephew witnessed a man with a child who was sitting in front of him being hit.

This seat had the metal fittings attached and a direct hit may well have been fatal. In a photograph published in the Sun newspaper my nephew can be seen fending off coins thrown from the North Stand. A barrage of missiles were exchanged and others thrown from the top tier of Leppings Lane onto the lower tier.

A hard core of fanatics were allowed to purchase tickets adjoining one another. This is fundamentally dangerous and largely avoidable. I think that you should insist that for high risk matches that Sheffield Wednesday create a much bigger buffer zone between supporters and act to limit the number of “risk” supporters being so near to the away support. The proximity of thugs to one another was undeniably a factor.

5. No membership checks for Leeds United

The Leeds membership system requires a membership card to be shown with a ticket. This card number is printed on tickets. This did not happen allowing anyone with a ticket into the ground. Banned thugs were therefore easily accessing tickets. Incredibly there were no Leeds stewards checking tickets, something that has always happened previously including the last Leeds away match. The FA should insist that Leeds re-introduce this system, using their own trained stewards for every away match.

6. The usual partisan comments by both managers after the match

Mr Jones labelled all Leeds supporters as animals. Mr Warnock claimed that Chris Kirkland had exaggerated his attack.

7. Mr Warnock sending his players to salute their fans

This incendiary action potentially incited more problems after the final whistle and was not just inappropriate but dangerous.

8 Ineffective deployment of riot police

The riot police were on the touchline before the player attack. Inexplicably they were gathered in front of the Sheffield supporters with none along the touchline at the Leeds supporters end. At the time I thought this was highly problematic.

9 Insufficient stewards

There was a virtual absence of stewards behind both goals, allowing constant aggressive abuse of both goalkeepers throughout. When a fanatic runs onto the pitch, stewards are meant to be deployed immediately to apprehend the individual, whether their intent is aggressive or not. The stewards were simply not available to do this.

You are already aware of my concerns about inconsistent stewarding at football. This is simply another example. The stewards came across as fans and friends, which is wonderful in most matches, but it was inappropriate for this match and there is no possibility that they were in position to effectively intervene in this atmosphere.

10. A Friday night

Why was a high risk match scheduled for a Friday night- the worst possible time?

11. Identification of ‘risk’ supporters

How many ‘risk’ supporters were identified in advance by LUFC and Leeds police? Where were the Leeds police spotters outside the ground? Were Sheffield ‘risk’ allowed in the section of the North stand nearest the Leeds fans? You need to get answers to these questions.

The usual away club police operation did not appear to be present outside the Leppings Lane end. I witnessed this for 15 minutes in advance of the game.

Why was a known banned risk supporter not spotted when standing immediately behind the goal line?

If the usual police risk match operation was taking place then it was well disguised and I could not recognise it. Either way it was very ineffective.

Without any question there were a number of Leeds thugs who had infiltrated the ground and who are not membership card holders or regulars.

Whilst some incidents including the attack were unpredictable, the general problems here were very predictable. Football appears to have learned too little from the past.

In addition to other actions, I trust you will take appropriate immediate action if there is a repeat of the Saville chants at Elland Road on Tuesday and Saturday and simply requires Leeds United to play behind closed doors.

Many supporters do not want the majority to be punished for the actions of the minority. I disagree I have seen some of the worst days of football in the 1970s and 1980s. This night compares with them and it is time people stood up and said we will not tolerate such abuse and violence and if my own club and my ability to watch football is temporarily impaired it will be a price worth paying to ensure a positive experience for the many small kids I am trying to introduce to the professional game.

Yours sincerely

John Mann

JOHN MANN

Member of Parliament for Bassetlaw

I think that is a fair description of events from the position I was sat taking into account what i could see & hear personally.

It's all a stain on both clubs impo but point 7 is the one that I am glad has been raised. Endorsing bad behaviour by clapping fans just stirs up the already simmering pot!

I would like to see a direction from THE FA that clubs shouldn't acknowledge fans when they behave themselves. Difficult to outline I know but one I'd like to see.

[Guest Bedders]

I think that is a fair description of events from the position I was sat taking into account what i could see & hear personally.

It's all a stain on both clubs impo but point 7 is the one that I am glad has been raised. Endorsing bad behaviour by clapping fans just stirs up the already simmering pot!

I would like to see a direction from THE FA that clubs / players shouldn't acknowledge fans when they wont behave themselves. Difficult to outline I know but one I'd like to see.

amended

[modboy]

Flair came from South Stand. There were 'fans' in the toilets at HT bragging about it

thanks

[sweetsheri]

Good letter that.

But no matter what the L33ds fans did - yet again it highlighted how embarrassing that section of the North stand is.

It's like when they sing "worst support i've ever seen" when the away stand is nearly full..

Can't wait for Forest to come so we get the "scab" chants....fools

[zuluvictorking]

The FA are useless, they will fine us again, and do nothing to Leeds.