Wrong Tactics (All Season )

[@owlstalk]

 

 

"It attacked my respiratory system, I had pneumonia and then pleurisy. I was struggling.

 

“I was in there (hospital) a full week, full 24 hours’ oxygen. I’ve not talked about this and I’ll be honest with you, I was scared. I went through a four-hour period in the emergency room with three cardiac nurses around me."

 

He accepts there was a very real possibility he could have died: "I look back and think, my goodness, it was that level.

 

"For those 48 hours it must have been bedlam for them. I’ve got a little girl, 11, and she’d have been petrified. My mum was in bits. I got a message to them that I was all right.”

 

 

 

 

 

But of course Kevin Pressman's Pen thinks he should have stopped almost dying and kept us up

FFS

This shizzle gets me SOOOO livid

I can cope with someone saying they don't like a manager
I can cope with people questioning tactics, lineups, substitutions etc
I can even cope with someone saying they don't like a managers personality or way he goes about things

But to say a manager relegated us when he was in such a bad way in hospital - I'm sorry but that's just ******** out of order and says nothing about Darren Moore but everything about the people that suggest he should have just jumped out of hospital bed and kept us up

It's such a lowlife scummy argument to try and make

 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

You keep repeating this but his assistants still ran everything for him and Smith said to the media at the time that Moore was inputting via FaceTime.

 

Whilst its not ideal it's still part of his overall record as manager here.

 

As I said, at the end of last season some of our fans wanted him out but I didn't, and part of that was because of these extenuating circumstances.

 

I'm more disappointed with this season than last season. If he gets us over the line though then all will be forgiven.

 

 

 

He was in hospital with double pneumonia of the lungs, Pleuresy, on oxygen, with cardiac nurses around him, and COVID fighting for his life

[NorthernOwl]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

Thing is though mate, if he came in with 6 games left and we were 8 points adrift or something (which is kind of the situation when he came in at West Brom initially) you'd say yeah there's nothing he could do about that.

 

But 14 games is still nearly a third of the season. Rotherham and Derby imploded and any sort of decent run would have got us out of it even at that stage but Moore couldn't do it.

 

FWIW, at the end of last season I wasn't against Moore, accepted that he'd not had a great start but wanted him to have a fresh start with his own players. It does form part of his overall record here for us though, and its a negative.

 

Whether you apportion blame to Moore for the relegation or not I think we would all agree that both covid and players not getting paid had a huge impact on the season.

 

If we are a championship side next year Moore won't have either of those issues to contend with.

 

That's why I wouldn't personally consider the relegation as evidence Moore can't manage at championship level.

[Daizan10]

Any other year we would be automatics with our points total. We have been/ are good enough, as are the tactics and Moore is the man for the job. 

[Five Archers]

17 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

You keep repeating this but his assistants still ran everything for him and Smith said to the media at the time that Moore was inputting via FaceTime.

 

Whilst its not ideal it's still part of his overall record as manager here.

 

As I said, at the end of last season some of our fans wanted him out but I didn't, and part of that was because of these extenuating circumstances.

 

I'm more disappointed with this season than last season. If he gets us over the line though then all will be forgiven.

I’m a bit confused by your last paragraph, if we win the playoffs then Darren Moore is forgiven and it’s full steam ahead in the championship.

Lose by say a last minute own goal in the final and its “sorry Darren but out you go” then what? We have to start again next season in league 1 with another new manager who will probably take half a season to get us back up to speed and once again we will have people screaming for the manager’s head. 
My opinion is we keep Moore and try to build on what we already have 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Five Archers said:

I’m a bit confused by your last paragraph, if we win the playoffs then Darren Moore is forgiven and it’s full steam ahead in the championship.

Lose by say a last minute own goal in the final and its “sorry Darren but out you go” then what? We have to start again next season in league 1 with another new manager who will probably take half a season to get us back up to speed and once again we will have people screaming for the manager’s head. 
My opinion is we keep Moore and try to build on what we already have 

The way I see it, last season the goal for him and his coaching team was to stay up. That was failed.. going on about him having covid is a distraction, his assistants ran the club while he was ill. Overall we failed that goal.

 

This season’s goal is promotion. We have a good chance of top 6 (might already be there even if we lose vs Portsmouth), then it’s a lottery with 25% chance. I hope we do it, as I’m sure everyone else in this thread does too. If we don’t do it, it goes down as another failure though. The play offs are a lottery so that’s not the managers fault, but us having to rely on them is. We’ve had so many opportunities to get the extra 8 points we’d have needed for top 2.

 

Even if we don’t go up, I expect him to stay. If the decision was mine, I might not even sack him at that point (but I’d have already made a change last October). But if we aren’t top 2 after 10 games next season he’d have to go for me, assuming Chansiri continues to support with the same budget. 
 

I just think if we go in to next season in League 1 then that’s 2 seasons in a row where the main objective wasn’t achieved. The pressure is on. 

[parajack]

16 hours ago, CircleSeven said:

If we don’t go up this season it’s going to be our year next time. I’m 100% certain.

Derby and Barnsley down next season,no knowing who is staying/going going to be difficult ask…If Darren remains and for the record I hope DOES providing he doesn’t return to his favoured lone striker style and formation.3/5/2 has took us to the verge of the play offs. We should recruit again for it 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

WAWAW 

That is the sentiment until the Final whistle Saturday. Then it’s good luck in the play offs or deep commiserations and a decision has to be made. Some folk on here are too profound!

[@owlstalk]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

The way I see it, last season the goal for him and his coaching team was to stay up. That was failed.. going on about him having covid is a distraction 

I'm giving up on this now - what you're trying to claim is pathetic

The only thing Darren Moore nearly dying in hospital is distracting is that it's distracting you from your weird blind hatred of him and your twisted views of what a manager should be capable of whilst being surrounded by cardiac nurses as he fights for his life

What you going to suggest next?

That the singer from The Wanted should have still got to number one in the charts by getting of his sick bed and recording a song and making a music video whilst laying dying from his brain tumour?

Pathetic

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

I'm giving up on this now - what you're trying to claim is pathetic

The only thing Darren Moore nearly dying in hospital is distracting is that it's distracting you from your weird blind hatred of him and your twisted views of what a manager should be capable of whilst being surrounded by cardiac nurses as he fights for his life

 

In any other business, if the main boss is off work for a couple of weeks with illness, and rightly so as he needed to get himself right, it doesn’t give the business free reign to burn down in the meantime. The other staff have to pick up the slack and enforce the values and philosophy of the boss.

 

The results of the business still matter. It’s odd to focus on his illness over the results. As I said, I viewed it as an extenuating circumstance for last season at the time but that doesn’t mean you totally ignore it. 

[@owlstalk]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

In any other business, if the main boss is off work for a couple of weeks with illness, and rightly so as he needed to get himself right, it doesn’t give the business free reign to burn down in the meantime. The other staff have to pick up the slack and enforce the values and philosophy of the boss.

 

The results of the business still matter. It’s odd to focus on his illness over the results. As I said, I viewed it as an extenuating circumstance for last season at the time but that doesn’t mean you totally ignore it. 

 

 

I'm at the point now where I believe that because you're 'nope - I know he was dying but he should have kept us up' that it's not actually YOUR opinion but that you're just repeating what you've seen/heard someone else say

[Five Archers]

25 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

The way I see it, last season the goal for him and his coaching team was to stay up. That was failed.. going on about him having covid is a distraction, his assistants ran the club while he was ill. Overall we failed that goal.

 

This season’s goal is promotion. We have a good chance of top 6 (might already be there even if we lose vs Portsmouth), then it’s a lottery with 25% chance. I hope we do it, as I’m sure everyone else in this thread does too. If we don’t do it, it goes down as another failure though. The play offs are a lottery so that’s not the managers fault, but us having to rely on them is. We’ve had so many opportunities to get the extra 8 points we’d have needed for top 2.

 

Even if we don’t go up, I expect him to stay. If the decision was mine, I might not even sack him at that point (but I’d have already made a change last October). But if we aren’t top 2 after 10 games next season he’d have to go for me, assuming Chansiri continues to support with the same budget. 
 

I just think if we go in to next season in League 1 then that’s 2 seasons in a row where the main objective wasn’t achieved. The pressure is on. 

Your first point I strongly disagree with mate, I would say the distraction would be massive for his assistants, could you carry on perfectly well with life knowing a close friend is seriously Ill  In hospital?

the rest of your post is fair enough and nothing wrong with the the pressure being on, that’s how football should be

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

2 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

Ok.

 

Have I once said he's lazy or selfish?

 

He's doing a job, one he's probably been told to do, but whatever you say, while he's on the pitch, he's the man, and our tactics are all designed to support him in that.

 

So, without going down the  Bobby Boucher "You're wrong" route, do you have any evidence, observations or examples to support your claims?

 

As he's played in 35 games this season, there must be shedloads of examples of the following to show me how wrong I am. So when has he:

Outworked his partner in running or pressing over 90 minutes?

Made an unselfish dummy run to give his partner space?

Physically dominated a defender over a game?

Made a meaningful defensive contribution?

 

I'll throw you a bone and give you link up play, as he does it well. The issue is WHY IS HE DROPPING BACK TO LINK UP WHEN HE'S THE TOP STRIKER, IT'S NOT HIS JOB.

 

If he wants to be on the last man, the forward target, then he needs to be that, and move defenders away from play, not bring them closer.

 

This is the issue, he wants to be the number 9 without the off the ball movement and running, but he also wants to be the number 10 without the pressing and running.

 

If he played just as a 10, a Teddy Sheringham, say, it would be fine, and he'd be good at it.

However he also plays the number 9 at the same time which makes us too closed up and easy to mark.

 

On a different note, did you like the song I wrote for you?

 

I'm at work and don't have the time nor the inclination to start analysing his performances for you, to be honest.

 

If you watch the game tomorrow, you may well get answers to all of the above questions.

 

I've said what I have to say. If you can't see what Gregory offers, then fair enough. I'm not sure whether I believe that, or whether you're desperately clinging to a preconceived stance for some reason, but I doubt you'll ever change your stance now you've stated it so forcefully.

 

As for the song, I honestly don't know what you want me to say.

 

[NorthernOwl]

31 minutes ago, parajack said:

Derby and Barnsley down next season,no knowing who is staying/going going to be difficult ask…If Darren remains and for the record I hope DOES providing he doesn’t return to his favoured lone striker style and formation.3/5/2 has took us to the verge of the play offs. We should recruit again for it 

 

It's certainly possible the league will be tougher next season, although it doesn't always work out that way. As we've seen this season the favoured teams don't always perform.

 

It we are still in this league next year I think it's reasonable that Moore is set a target of automatic promotion. Of course as you say budget and who stays/ goes will make a difference. But I think both Chansiri and the fanbase will expect top 2.

[The coach]

At the end of the day we have to go up..otherwise its a relegation and a failure to get promotion on DMs watch..and that is not a success by any stretch..these are the facts

[parajack]

51 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

It's certainly possible the league will be tougher next season, although it doesn't always work out that way. As we've seen this season the favoured teams don't always perform.

 

It we are still in this league next year I think it's reasonable that Moore is set a target of automatic promotion. Of course as you say budget and who stays/ goes will make a difference. But I think both Chansiri and the fanbase will expect top 2.

Some of us expected top two this Year mate which is basically where the fan base is split on

[Tewkesbury]

3 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

I don't think I've ever seen someone force themselves through such mental contortions in an attempt to convince themselves and others that what they're seeing doesn't tally with reality.

 

Which, when you consider this is Owlstalk, is really quite something.

 

 

Misrepresenting Gregory as a selfish player who piggybacks off his teammates' efforts is ridiculous.

 

37 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I'm at work and don't have the time nor the inclination to start analysing his performances for you, to be honest.

 

If you watch the game tomorrow, you may well get answers to all of the above questions.

 

I've said what I have to say. If you can't see what Gregory offers, then fair enough. I'm not sure whether I believe that, or whether you're desperately clinging to a preconceived stance for some reason, but I doubt you'll ever change your stance now you've stated it so forcefully.

 

As for the song, I honestly don't know what you want me to say.

 

Ok, fair enough.

 

You jumped on my reply to someone else with the above "mental contortions" and "ridiculous"

 

Of course I'm going to reply in a likewise manner.

 

I don't want to argue or get people's backs up, I'm not attacking anyone.

I'm just after a proper discussion, with points raised and refuted.

 

I do exaggerate a bit, but more to make it more interesting, sometimes I'm just playing devil's advocate and making idle speculation, because as I said, at the minute I have COVID and I'm bored.

 

Anyway, have a nice weekend, and I sincerely do hope that there are plenty of reasons why I'm wrong by 2:15.

[GermanBird]

1 minute ago, Tewkesbury said:

I have COVID and I'm bored.

 

 

Get well soon 

 

I do admire Gregory, but I still enjoy your posts. They always give me something to think about or check out at the next game.

(of course usually you are wrong )

[Emerson Thome]

1 hour ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

In any other business, if the main boss is off work for a couple of weeks with illness, and rightly so as he needed to get himself right, it doesn’t give the business free reign to burn down in the meantime. The other staff have to pick up the slack and enforce the values and philosophy of the boss.

 

The results of the business still matter. It’s odd to focus on his illness over the results. As I said, I viewed it as an extenuating circumstance for last season at the time but that doesn’t mean you totally ignore it. 

 

Ignoring the ridiculous 'couple of weeks with illness' statement, how many miracles do you think Jamie Smith can perform, acting as both first team coach and manager while Moore was fighting for his life?

 

Because other than Smith, and Williams, who never settled, the entire staff last season was the same staff that put us in the relegation zone in the first place with 2/3rds of the season gone.

[Emerson Thome]

5 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

I'll also touch on partners.

People go on about a settled partner for him. But, here's the thing. Gregory's partner is not there to score. His primary job is to run about, press, make space for Gregory and pick up any scraps that he leaves.

But when you're playing 2 games a week, where you're doing the work of 2 men, you can't play every game. Some games even Bannan is up there picking up the slack.

 

I'll also add this little bit, he's always going to be our best striker, because all of our others were set up to fail.

It also explains the dropping when they score. They aren't there to score. They are there to ryn themselves into the ground for 90 minutes, tjen back to the bench for the next sacrifice.

 

If that's the case, I do wonder why Kamberi hasn't featured more this season. It is basically Kamberi's game to offer an intense 60-75 minutes of sprinting around, closing down defenders and running the channels.

 

Don't have the stats to hand, but I seem to remember Gregory + Kamberi working quite well too (Sunderland at home springs to mind).