Change to the number of headers allowed in training

[Guest Rightwingedowl]

Let's just ban football eh? Do nothing and stay safe....apart from everybody becoming obese. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

21 minutes ago, RighthOwlon said:

Are the risks still the same nowadays though, given footballs are so much lighter than they were even 10 years ago? 

I’m with this opinion. Need to see more research results on players that retired 20/30 years ago.

[UpGrahamHydesSleeve]

6 minutes ago, Otley Owl said:

No need to have a go at the OP. Provide a link, and argue your point. 

Erm, do I really need to?
 

Also - I was hardly having a go at the OP, and I’m sure he’s heard worse. We disagree, and in my opinion he’s poorly informed. I haven’t exactly attacked the guy.

 

However in the interest of saving you googling Ryan Jones dementia here’s one of dozens of articles on his situation.

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/former-wales-captain-ryan-jones-24510880.amp

 

See also (from one Google search) https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/08/steve-thompson-former-rugby-union-players-dementia-landmark-legal-case

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/apr/16/more-than-400-ex-rugby-players-died-early-from-brain-injuries-claim-lawyers

 

https://activecaregroup.co.uk/the-risk-of-brain-injury-in-football-and-other-sports/
 

Banning under 12 kids from heading and tackling is nothing and could save kids from suffering an injury. Technique is better learned after they’re more mature and stronger anyway.

[DJMortimer]

As I understand it, the injuries are usually a consequence of repeated collisions of the brain with the interior of the skull, and as such lighter balls or even headguards will not have that big an impact on reducing such injuries without resorting to really extreme measures.

 

Crusty old blockheads might brand it soft, but it would be unconscionable to leave things as they are when it comes to children given what knowledge is being gained about the potential long term effects. 

[109Waddle]

My daughter has an acquired brain injury. Before she was born I used to watch the big boxing fights, now, just cannot believe more isn’t done to protect the head. I still play football and still head the ball, have done for 30 odd years, but anything that can be done to reduce the risk of head injury for youngsters starting out in the game makes so much sense to me. I don’t understand why people would choose to ignore data about brain injuries and the link to a sport, regardless of the sport.

[TheGaffer]

17 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

I’m with this opinion. Need to see more research results on players that retired 20/30 years ago.

The risks are the same as the force is the same, mass may have decreased slightly ( again the weight had increased since Casey days!) , But the speed at which they travel has increased considerably. Shearer's documentary provided proof of this for anyone who hasn't seen it. So yes the danger is still there.

[JohnSheridansBigToe]

1 hour ago, UpGrahamHydesSleeve said:

The hot weather brings them out doesn’t it?

 

Read the story about Ryan Jones, former Wales captain who has early onset dementia at aged 41 and also CTE. Would love to see you say sport is going soft to his face.

I'm trying hard not to be sarky here, but I don't think Ryan Jones headed the ball too much, just saying. Which is what the Op is about. 

[TommyCraig]

Heading has been banned for years in training for young kids, then only a couple per week as they get into adulthood. Not always adhered to but it should be. 

Banning in games isn't going to happen in my opinion and nor should it, totally unworkable and ott 

[darntpark]

Let's be honest, most people did a lot of damage to their heads in the 90's... Quite a lot of the north stand pointers still aren't allowed to damage their brains but they seem to do it on a weekly basis at matches and I don't think I've ever seen any of them head a ball.

Edited July 18, 2022 by darntpark

[Guest Willow Owl]

50 minutes ago, TheGaffer said:

The risks are the same as the force is the same, mass may have decreased slightly ( again the weight had increased since Casey days!) , But the speed at which they travel has increased considerably. Shearer's documentary provided proof of this for anyone who hasn't seen it. So yes the danger is still there.

Thanks for that, Just going on personal experience, the old balls knocked your head into your shoulders. The newer balls didn’t seem to have the same impact despite travelling faster.

I’ll check out the Alan Shearer documentary 

[The coach]

1 hour ago, parkfieldowl14 said:

Except myself. I Used to play the ball from the back when i played football at School.

Then panick pass the ball to the striker and concede...then get dropped..well done you

[Miruic]

2 hours ago, Maddogbob said:

This really is a bad idea.

 

Teach the correct method, limit in training, even use head guards, I'm all for it.

 

But I've seen youth football that discourages this and trust me, it's not great. It's poor, very poor.

 

It forces a pattern of play that meny kids arnt capable of, and will drive kids away and de-skill them in the art of correct heading.

 

By ‘patterns of play’ do you mean passing? If children have to practice passing more because they currently aren’t capable of passing and that’s how their team plays then surely that’s a good thing for their development. 
 

Sorry if I’ve miss understood your point. It just seems to me that regardless of heading rules if I child can’t pass then that should undoubtedly be the focus. 

[UpGrahamHydesSleeve]

1 hour ago, JohnSheridansBigToe said:

I'm trying hard not to be sarky here, but I don't think Ryan Jones headed the ball too much, just saying. Which is what the Op is about. 

No but he did mention rugby in the OP, with tackling in schools not being allowed

[Guest Jack the Hat]

I was actually taught to head a ball by Maurice setters AND jack charlton at the training ground one summer. I was heading it wrong and they pulled me to one side and showed everyone how to do it I remember it like it was yesterday. I don’t think they teach kids heading much these days. It’s a tricky one but most sports carry an element of risk to different parts of the body from boxing through to spectators getting hit by a golf ball. Kids are different gravy but Once you are past 18 you can make those decisions yourself. I still play and I still head it. I don’t think it should be banned but there is less heading than there used to be in football as it is played on the floor more.

[Emerson Thome]

"In happier times, there was a story Eric Harrison used to tell his players at Manchester United, as the coach who helped bring through the Class of ’92, about a piece of advice he once received from the centre-half he regarded as the hardest man he had ever seen on a football pitch.

 

George Curtis will always be best remembered as John Sillett’s managerial partner on the day Coventry City won the 1987 FA Cup. Yet for Harrison’s generation in the 1950s and 1960s he was the kind of centre‑half who could trouble even the most granite-jawed opponent. Harrison played with him on their national service and was always fascinated how a man of 5ft 11in won so many headers against players who were well over 6ft. “No problem,” Curtis explained, “early in the game, when the first ball comes up the middle, I don’t head the ball. I head the back of the centre-forward’s head against the ball – and he doesn’t usually come back for more.”

 

Harrison liked what he heard so much he adopted the same tactic, as you might expect for a man whose nickname during 10 years as a wing‑half at Halifax Town was “Chopper”. Harrison, by his own admission, saw every header as a personal challenge, no matter what was in the way.

 

Yet it had its consequences. His wife, Shirley, told me a story recently about her first pregnancy and the arrival of their baby daughter, Kim. Harrison was in another part of the hospital that day, suffering one of his regular concussions, and missed the birth. That one wiped him out for three days.

 

He is 79 now and the most famous players from his list of successes Old Trafford are still in thrall of their old coach. Yet it hasn’t been easy for anyone when they have called in to see him this year. “Eric still talks about them – Giggsy, Beckham, Scholesy, the Nevilles – but he doesn’t recognise them now,” Shirley explains. “He recognises me and his daughters, but not even the grandchildren. The players have all been to visit but it wasn’t the Eric they knew. Scholesy, in particular, found it really hard. They all did. It was upsetting for all of them.” Beckham had turned up with a carrot cake he had baked with his children and a bottle of whisky. Afterwards, he sat in his car and wept."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/sep/30/football-heading-brain-injuries-ball-kevin-doyle

[Inspector Lestrade]

4 hours ago, Maddogbob said:

This really is a bad idea.

 

Teach the correct method, limit in training, even use head guards, I'm all for it.

 

But I've seen youth football that discourages this and trust me, it's not great. It's poor, very poor.

 

It forces a pattern of play that meny kids arnt capable of, and will drive kids away and de-skill them in the art of correct heading.

 

 

Does the correct way of heading the ball stop players from getting CTE and dementia?  If so can you pass on your evidence to the medical team researching this issue? 

[Emerson Thome]

5 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Does the correct way of heading the ball stop players from getting CTE and dementia?  If so can you pass on your evidence to the medical team researching this issue? 

 

Sadly Setters died with Alzheimers and Charlton with dementia. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

3 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

Sadly Setters died with Alzheimers and Charlton with dementia. 

 

Has there been any published papers to show that there is a correlation between heading a ball and having CTE and dementia?

 

There certainly seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence

[Emerson Thome]

21 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Has there been any published papers to show that there is a correlation between heading a ball and having CTE and dementia?

 

There certainly seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence

 

I'm not really the right person to say. I know the brain is really difficult to understand so we're some way off fully understanding it. But I did find this study:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2782750

 

Which concludes: "Thus, while overall neurodegenerative disease mortality was approximately 3.5-fold higher in former professional soccer players than in matched general population control individuals, risk varied from a 2-fold increase in deaths with Parkinson disease to a 5-fold increase in deaths with Alzheimer disease."

[Tewkesbury]

4 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Has there been any published papers to show that there is a correlation between heading a ball and having CTE and dementia?

 

There certainly seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence

From what I've seen, it can only be detected properly after death, that's why it's so hard to research.

 

It's any brain impact, heading a ball, getting hit, tackles.

 

Most of the research comes from American Football at the minute.