The European Superleague Plan highlights a problem at Sheffield Wednesday

[onlyonedavidhirst]

Lots of good points made on here. I’d add one thought, football is my first love, I go to games because it’s far better than watching it on TV. As fans often comment, it’s the away games that are the most fun. Attendances have ebbed and flowed in the 50 years I’ve been watching. In that same sort of timeframe I’ve been going to gigs. Similarly, there have been times when gigs have been less sought after than they were in recent times. The gig experience has returned for sure and whilst some football fans question whether they’ll go again after Covid, I’d guess almost anyone who likes going to gigs will be desperate to go again, I don’t feel that live music attendances will drop (aside from health concerns). Gigs haven’t become popular again because of the facilities, it’s all about the experience and the buzz you get, in fact some of that seems to come from being in sub-standard venues, drinking beer out of plastic cups and getting crushed.  The younger generations seem to lap that up too. Football needs to find that buzz again, part of which is about identity and tribalism, otherwise it will become a franchised sport that has to provide a similar experience to American football. I’ve been to Wembley to watch the American football regularly, that comes under the “nice day out”, something I’m happy to do once a year but no way would I do it every week. 

[BIG D]

Found it and it's Chansiri era

 

 

 

[prowl]

3 hours ago, Ian said:

Baseball isn’t about sport though is it....it’s a day out where American families have a competition as to how much they can eat whilst the most mind numbing “sport” ever invented is going on behind them

And the problem is?

 

Pass me another burger.

[The Wall]

Just listen to Florentino Perez for an understanding of how broken football is.

 

He's run out of money again by paying players ridiculous amounts at Real Madrid. Instead of thinking 'maybe we should only pay this guy £200k/week, not £400k', his solution is to seek even more money, so he can pay them £600k/week. Totally unsustainable.

 

I remember having this debate with a Liverpool fan a few years ago. Football took off massively in the 90s because it was fashionable to be a football 'lad' and relatively affordable. Thesedays, to young people, being a 'lad' is not fashionable, is something your dad and his d*ckhead mates did 20/30 years ago. Combine this with unaffordable prices and you get a generation of fans that aren't that bothered. They find something else to do. But football still expects this unsustainable growth every year.

So you get the situation where revenues are down, but you've still got a squad full of players on 5 year contracts on 400k/week... pop

[owlinexile]

2 minutes ago, prowl said:

And the problem is?

 

Pass me another burger.

 

You'll be lucky.  They ran out before kick-off....

 

[sonofbert2]

31 minutes ago, owlinexile said:

Football needs a complete reset; just in the exact opposite direction than these 'Super League' teams want.

 

At the moment, football is pure casino capitalism.  Buy a club on its uppers, run up a tonne of debt trying to get into the Premiership where you can actually make a profit, probably fail and waltz away from the smoking ruin you left behind.  

 

If you are a 'big' Premiership club, the exact same applies except instead of trying to get to the Premiership to survive you are trying to get in the Champions League.

 

The solution of these Americans is to seize ownership of the casino and make sure no one too 'lucky' is allowed in.  But all the excess and profiteering is to continue and actually be encouraged.

 

The ACTUAL solution is to remove the temptation.  It shouldn't be possible to make vast fortunes by owning a football club.  Football clubs should essentially be held in trust for the local community.  The owners are really 'trustees' and should be there to ensure the club is run sustainably within its operating budget and can continue to thrive into the future, not to enrich themselves.

 

Because that's the USP that's missing from actually going to a football match now - the community and sense of ownership.  It's not about the facilities, or what division you are in, or even particularly the football on offer.

 

I started going to football because my dad took me.  I have seen Wednesday in Europe, I have seen them have a decent crack at the First Division title.  I have seen us in League One twice now.  I have seen us at Wembley and Old Trafford and I have worried that the stand was going to fall down at Carlisle United.  I have watched us being represented by Chris Waddle and by Jay Bothroyd, Des Walker and Ashley Westwood.  Sublime passing skills and Megson hoof-ball.  The most enjoyable football experience I have ever had was probably a League One playoff final against Hartlepool United.

 

Because none of that stuff is actually what going to watch live football is about.  Football is about daft Saturday rituals and traditions with your dad or mates.  A shared sense of identity and pride in your community.  Proper hating those ******** from a couple of miles down the road who are exactly the same as you in every way and you will be best pals with again at school or work on Monday.  Immediately having shared experiences in common to talk about with complete strangers.  Feeling the bass vibrations of 20,000 people singing together coming up through your feet.

 

Football clubs, leagues and broadcasters have spent lots of money persuading people that football is not about that at all, and is actually about the BEST players in the BEST stadiums all competing against each other on Mount Olympus for the edification of us mere mortals.  Constantly telling everyone that football is better because the players are 'fitter' and have never been as technically proficient and how famous player 'x' would never make it in today's game.  Hordes of footballing 'intellectuals' who have never set foot in a football stadium arguing about pass completion rates and Expected Goals Against and how players passing it sideways in their own half for ages like that episode of the Simpsons is actually MORE entertaining somehow.

 

They chose to market football in that way because they realised that they could make far more money if millions of people watched it on TV rather than thousands in a stadium.  After decades of that message, they can hardly complain that young people would prefer to watch football on television rather than actually going to a match, and that they lack the same levels of 'brand loyalty' and enthusiasm that the so-called 'legacy fans' have.  That's what they wanted.  That's what they have got.

 

Chansiri could have a complete personality transplant and turn Hillsborough into a shining palace where it costs a tenner to get in, the toilets are spotless with built-in bidets and perfume dispensers, and you can even actually get a pie or a cup of tea at half time, and young people would still prefer to watch football on TV, because that's what football IS to them now.

 

 

 

 

 

Great post

[sonofbert2]

10 minutes ago, BIG D said:

So dearer than going to see Man City then?

 

At least you’d get a pie at the airport.

[OWLERTON GHOST]

1 hour ago, BIG D said:

@OWLERTON GHOST

What was funny about that? It's a fact. it's actually reasonable to watch the best team in the country.

After that shower of shìte that they presented to the world in a premier cup semifinal at our Nation's premier stadium I'd keep the "Best Team in the country" tag quiet if I were you .....

 

 

 

[Rogers]

3 hours ago, toooldforthis said:

The thing that interested me about this whole ESL business was the outpouring of passion for grassroots football and the contempt for those running the huge clubs. It mirrored what fans have thought for many years now.

 

You outline well the symptoms of a sick and outdated business model at SWFC but it could be that the whole structure of football has grown in a direction that means the ESL was inevitable but premature. I think it will still happen one day just like cricket shunned Kerry Packer in the 70s with his World Series Cricket only for it to be the catalyst that modernised the game and draw in millions of viewers as it has today. Boxing went through a similar process.

 

The top clubs in world football will form a structure of franchises in the next 5 years. The current model, like at SWFC, means that fans spend very little on a matchday and club revenues suffer. Sure we can all point a finger at what's on offer and standards, but in truth, we wouldn't spend very much more week in week out at a game if they improved (well, I wouldn't). With a franchise, you take Man Utd v Real Madrid to Singapore and fans would spend fortunes for a once in a lifetime experience. Very high ticket prices and millions on merchandise. So that's what is driving these owners...the rewards are too small in the current structure.

 

Also, everything is too short term. Transfers are huge costs and the club often gets nothing at the end...it's a write-off. Every 'top' club in each division overspends and gets into trouble...Brentford have a great model as do Norwich (there are others)...but they have owners that are lifelong fans.

 

I think the leagues need slimming down, clubs need to merge and fans need to be made to feel that they own their clubs. There is no football league without its fan base...we've had over a year to see that now. Clubs need experienced business people to run them and the EFL need to concentrate on support rather than sanctions.

 

This has come as a shock to the footballing world but any good Chairman/CEO will see this as a chance to review their rationale for owning a club. If it's just profit then they will see their investment wither and atrophy...slowly and painfully (as we have). If you are a fan then you will run it like a strict parent...with love and compassion...and tighter purse strings where income matches expenditure.

 

As a lifelong fan I've enjoyed, in the most part, the journey with the Owls. I've never thought we were massive or even big...we're like a kid with hand me down clothes that look too big on us. But we can be a Leicester or Everton if we are well managed and plan for the long term...but we all know we won't be because we aren't managed or run by fans...so this is what we will get because it's what we've always had.

 

 

 

 

Some clubs have been run well over the years; the likes of West Ham have bought some superstars on the cheap and also relied upon bringing through youth. 
 

As you say, Everton, Leicester, and to a certain extent Southampton (bringing through youth and selling them for a fortune) are other clubs to look to. 
 

It’s a shame we just cannot get it right

[Guest whowantstoberich]

26 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Ninety five quid including flight / Return and matchday ticket ....

 

Fair play

[Manwë]

23 minutes ago, BIG D said:

Found it and it's Chansiri era

 

 

 

 

Interesting, not just the prices, but University of Sheffield Only, Hallam not mentioned.  

 

[quinnssweetshop]

Absolutely spot on  OP !!    

 

[Guest Grandad]

Only read page 1 and the brilliant first post. Apologies if I repeat anything.

 

Was sat having a coffee and a croissant this morning reading about the ESL fallout and similarly equating it to SWFC.

 

I've given Chansiri a lot of stick the last few years (much of it justified) - but I also recognise that what he was doing was funding the club to compete with the vast majority of other clubs who pay far more than their entire takings every year to the playing squad - before they've so much as paid the milkman. Its totally unsustainable as a business model.

 

For Sheffield Wednesday that business model has failed as much as it possibly could. We now face another relegation to the 3rd tier, and we deserve to (I still hope we can survive). But I've pretty much had it with football in this guise, and the pandemic has seen me develop other behaviours on a Saturday and Sunday to take in football at a different level, and grassroots has far more about it that the overpriced product we see at Hillsborough.

 

Far too much of the money in football gets paid to agents and players. I've no interest in watching millionaires going through the motions of kicking a ball about to be paid ridiculous sums of money regardless of success or failure.

 

So, I'm out.

 

And I completely understand why the younger generation are out too.

[Guest Therealrealist]

59 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Ninety five quid including flight / Return and matchday ticket ....

 

Do you walk to the airport? Do you sleep on a park bench in dortmund or in an hotel?

[Ray Von shabba]

3 hours ago, vulva said:

Wage cap is the only thing that will save the game. Unless that gets dealt with, everything else is irrelevant. 

Totally agree.

Pogba being talked about demanding £800k a week and with all ad ons, nearing £1m a week.

Absolutely obscene.

 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

So is this trend similarly replicated in OT traffic over the recent period of general decline of clubs trying and failing to play catch up ? I suspect the decline is visible over all facets of football including OT. Compare and contrast ! 

 

Like I said in other SL posts their collapse means nothing if ordinary Clubs, Fans and Forums don't pick up the cudgel !

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by nevthelodgemoorowl

[owlinexile]

32 minutes ago, Ray Von shabba said:

Totally agree.

Pogba being talked about demanding £800k a week and with all ad ons, nearing £1m a week.

Absolutely obscene.

 

 

The word 'no' is extremely easy to say.

 

'fizz off' has twice as many syllables, but may be more appropriate.

[BIG D]

1 hour ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

After that shower of shìte that they presented to the world in a premier cup semifinal at our Nation's premier stadium I'd keep the "Best Team in the country" tag quiet if I were you .....

 

 

 

 

So they're not the best team in the country then?

Ok?

 

 

 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, Rogers said:

Some clubs have been run well over the years; the likes of West Ham have bought some superstars on the cheap and also relied upon bringing through youth. 
 

As you say, Everton, Leicester, and to a certain extent Southampton (bringing through youth and selling them for a fortune) are other clubs to look to. 
 

It’s a shame we just cannot get it right

It all requires investment though, and premier league status + owners have funded those clubs. Then they spend smartly.

 

We’ve had no chance over the last 21 years apart from a 2 year window between 2015-17. And in the back half of that he spent very badly. The reason we’ve struggled is because we haven’t spent enough money between 2000-2015 and 2017-2021

[OWLERTON GHOST]

1 hour ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

Lots of good points made on here. I’d add one thought, football is my first love, I go to games because it’s far better than watching it on TV. As fans often comment, it’s the away games that are the most fun. Attendances have ebbed and flowed in the 50 years I’ve been watching. In that same sort of timeframe I’ve been going to gigs. Similarly, there have been times when gigs have been less sought after than they were in recent times. The gig experience has returned for sure and whilst some football fans question whether they’ll go again after Covid, I’d guess almost anyone who likes going to gigs will be desperate to go again, I don’t feel that live music attendances will drop (aside from health concerns). Gigs haven’t become popular again because of the facilities, it’s all about the experience and the buzz you get, in fact some of that seems to come from being in sub-standard venues, drinking beer out of plastic cups and getting crushed.  The younger generations seem to lap that up too. Football needs to find that buzz again, part of which is about identity and tribalism, otherwise it will become a franchised sport that has to provide a similar experience to American football. I’ve been to Wembley to watch the American football regularly, that comes under the “nice day out”, something I’m happy to do once a year but no way would I do it every week. 

"Knocked it out of the park"

mate great post ...