Garry Monk Sheffield Wednesday Manager

[@owlstalk]

36 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

I have to be honest and say that I just do not buy this.

 

"He's been forced to work with some very negative influences causing trouble, some players coming to the end of their contracts and not giving a damn about trying harder to win a new one (e.g. wanting out of the club), and some situations that any manager would struggle with."

 

All football clubs have their easy-going and more difficult personalities.  Monk created all the animosity that we just did not need.

 

Bruce had largely the same players and there were never any problems mentioned.

 

Monk was fired by Swansea, Monk was fired by M'boro, Monk was fired by Brum.

 

Plus after a promising start Monk messed up big time at Dirty Leeds.

 

 

 

 

 

See this is where people slip up by mentioning Saint Bruce and trying to promote him as some kind of genius, whilst pushing this over mentioned thing about  Monk being been sacked before..

 

Steve Bruce has been sacked.

 

He was sacked by Sunderland after a disastrous run of results

 

He was sacked by Aston Villa after a disastrous run of results

Steve Bruce is currently bookies favourite to be the first manager sacked from his job at Newcastle

And if we are REALLY being honest here, let's be totally honest and agree that he would probably have been sacked from all the other jobs he's had at some point, but wasn't because he ran off from them for better jobs every time, therefore avoiding any issues/sackings.

Are you saying he was wrong to be sacked from those jobs because his man management is so much better?

Are you saying he should not have been sacked from those jobs because the football he plays is easier on the eye?

Fans were throwing cabbages at him remember...

If you're going to use an alternative person to try and prove a point at least try and find one that's not been sacked as much as Bruce has

[Owls Loyal]

In fact I actually dislike Bruce for leaving us in the lurch but it has to be said he did not have a problem with managing the current group of players.

 

Plus there are lots of SWFC managers who have not fallen out with their players so publically as Monk has done.

 

Monk was fired by Swansea, Monk was fired by M'boro and Monk was fired by Brum.

 

He has never achieved anything in football management.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Owls Loyal said:

He has never achieved anything in football management.

 

This takes me back to the point I was asking earlier about how many managers that have had success, have had success previous to that.

Every manager has to start achieving somewhere, and many only achieve once in their careers anyway.

[Hougoumont]

50 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Thanks for the replies mate - appreciated

As for your question the honest answer is I simply do not know.

I think it's very difficult if not nigh on impossible to tell how Monk would fare at our club given the circumstances he's been working in.

He's been forced to work with some very negative influences causing trouble, some players coming to the end of their contracts and not giving a damn about trying harder to win a new one (e.g. wanting out of the club), and some situations that any manager would struggle with.

I could only really judge him once he has a coaching team in place, fresh faces in the squad, and the troublesome players out of the picture.

 

One volunteer is worth two pressed men so I'd rather have a man who wants to be here than Houghton anyday. You've pointed out the difficulties he's faced since he's been here and bearing these in mind I think that the criticism he's facing is outrageous. Give him a chance without one arm tied behind his back. Having said that, I think he isn't a particularly likeable person and does himself no favours with his awkward interview style. Perhaps he should take some lessons in presentation.

[Tommo_]

Get rid

[William 1867]

1 hour ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

Simple question. Do you believe Monk is the right man for the job?

NO.

[Jim]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Thanks for the replies mate - appreciated

As for your question the honest answer is I simply do not know.

I think it's very difficult if not nigh on impossible to tell how Monk would fare at our club given the circumstances he's been working in.

He's been forced to work with some very negative influences causing trouble, some players coming to the end of their contracts and not giving a damn about trying harder to win a new one (e.g. wanting out of the club), and some situations that any manager would struggle with.

I could only really judge him once he has a coaching team in place, fresh faces in the squad, and the troublesome players out of the picture.

 

Monk was more than holding his own in the early months then he seemed to go full on Jos and take a different hardline approach. Was it necessary? From

how things were going in the early days, perhaps not but something changed around the time that the players were given Christmas Day off?

 

Westwood and Hutchinson aren’t everybody’s cup of tea but they have been good players for us and make us a better team when they’re in it. Dawson and Pelupessy just aren’t in the same league as these two and never will be.

 

Given the way Monk has handled things since Christmas I can’t see him turning it back in his favour here. As I’ve said before once you’ve lost our fans, it’s difficult,

if nigh on impossible to get them back?

 

I think a clear out is needed and I would include Bullen, Thompson et al in this. Football will be a very different animal when it eventually resumes and I suspect as a club so will we?

 

I’d go to Plymouth, get Lowe and say right, here’s a blank canvas. You know what the fans here want, we’ll support you in trying to give it them. Best of Luck. I hope this happens, but when all is said and done we’re talking about Sheffield Wednesday here 

[devonshire owl]

32 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

Monk was more than holding his own in the early months then he seemed to go full on Jos and take a different hardline approach. Was it necessary? From

how things were going in the early days, perhaps not but something changed around the time that the players were given Christmas Day off?

 

Westwood and Hutchinson aren’t everybody’s cup of tea but they have been good players for us and make us a better team when they’re in it. Dawson and Pelupessy just aren’t in the same league as these two and never will be.

 

Given the way Monk has handled things since Christmas I can’t see him turning it back in his favour here. As I’ve said before once you’ve lost our fans, it’s difficult,

if nigh on impossible to get them back?

 

I think a clear out is needed and I would include Bullen, Thompson et al in this. Football will be a very different animal when it eventually resumes and I suspect as a club so will we?

 

I’d go to Plymouth, get Lowe and say right, here’s a blank canvas. You know what the fans here want, we’ll support you in trying to give it them. Best of Luck. I hope this happens, but when all is said and done we’re talking about Sheffield Wednesday here 

You don't want to go to Plymouth,awful place.would'nt want him but what happened to Chris Coleman?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

This takes me back to the point I was asking earlier about how many managers that have had success, have had success previous to that.

Every manager has to start achieving somewhere, and many only achieve once in their careers anyway.

This is basically saying that it’s luck of the draw really whether a manager is successful or not rather than it being about skill. I think there’s an element of that. 
 

All managers get sacked eventually unless you’re at one of the top teams and they have the resources to always compete even if they’re below par. Like Ferguson, Klopp or Guardiola aren’t getting sacked because their teams had/have so much quality that they’ll be up there regardless.

 

So then it’s just a question of how much do managers usually achieve before they reach that point at which they’ve taken the team as far as they can. I’d say 3 years or so is decent.. build year 1, success year 2, drop off and leave year 3.

 

Managers like Bruce have done this time and again.. he’s had relative success at most clubs he’s gone to and then obviously ended up getting sacked. His last 5 jobs:

 

Newcastle - guided them to mid table with a poor squad. Might not get to finish it due to boardroom changes

Wednesday - got good results and put some foundations in place then walked out before having success 

Villa - built a team and took them to the play off final and lost, then couldn’t deal with excessive expectations 

Hull - took them up twice and and got to an FA Cup final with a relegation in between 

Sunderland - basket case of a club, got a few lower mid table finishes (a relative success) then sacked when they were 16th.

 

So you can see that most places he’s been he’s had some success or built some foundations before getting sacked

 

The problem with Monk is he hasn’t lasted a year anywhere other than Swansea where he lasted just over. He’s not built any foundations and he hasn’t achieved any success, then results have fallen away. It’s no good having good form for 30 games if you’re then going to deliver relegation form for the last third of the season as that will never get you up. He just doesn’t have a track record of success. I’d rather we went with someone who has a track record like Bruce (struggling for names though) or hasn’t failed in that way before and is fresh. I just can’t envisage Monk doing 2-3 years here and delivering at least a play off campaign so it’s largely a waste of time  

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, LondonOwl313 said:

This is basically saying that it’s luck of the draw really whether a manager is successful or not rather than it being about skill. I think there’s an element of that. 
 

All managers get sacked eventually unless you’re at one of the top teams and they have the resources to always compete even if they’re below par. Like Ferguson, Klopp or Guardiola aren’t getting sacked because their teams had/have so much quality that they’ll be up there regardless.

 

So then it’s just a question of how much do managers usually achieve before they reach that point at which they’ve taken the team as far as they can. I’d say 3 years or so is decent.. build year 1, success year 2, drop off and leave year 3.

 

Managers like Bruce have done this time and again.. he’s had relative success at most clubs he’s gone to and then obviously ended up getting sacked. His last 5 jobs:

 

Newcastle - guided them to mid table with a poor squad. Might not get to finish it due to boardroom changes

Wednesday - got good results and put some foundations in place then walked out before having success 

Villa - built a team and took them to the play off final and lost, then couldn’t deal with excessive expectations 

Hull - took them up twice and and got to an FA Cup final with a relegation in between 

Sunderland - basket case of a club, got a few lower mid table finishes (a relative success) then sacked when they were 16th.

 

So you can see that most places he’s been he’s had some success or built some foundations before getting sacked

 

The problem with Monk is he hasn’t lasted a year anywhere other than Swansea where he lasted just over. He’s not built any foundations and he hasn’t achieved any success, then results have fallen away. It’s no good having good form for 30 games if you’re then going to deliver relegation form for the last third of the season as that will never get you up. He just doesn’t have a track record of success. I’d rather we went with someone who has a track record like Bruce (struggling for names though) or hasn’t failed in that way before and is fresh. I just can’t envisage Monk doing 2-3 years here and delivering at least a play off campaign so it’s largely a waste of time  

 

 

That's a good and very fair overview

 

Take Bruce out of the equation as I highly doubt he would be welcomed back by Chansiri, and who else is there out there that the above applies to that we could attract?

[Guest LondonOwl313]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

That's a good and very fair overview

 

Take Bruce out of the equation as I highly doubt he would be welcomed back by Chansiri, and who else is there out there that the above applies to that we could attract?

I’m struggling for names... Hughton or Warnock would fit that track record criteria although we were turned down by the former and the latter probably is done with full time management.

 

After that it’s a case of going with some young, fresh and untested which might not work anyway. That said, I don’t think it’s a good reason for keeping Monk. It’s like when you’ve had enough of your bird and it’s not working, but you have doubts about being able to get a new one. Never works to just hold on for no reason 

[gurujuan]

I think we are all struggling for names, as we were back when Monk was appointed. If nobody we could appoint, massively improves our chances of promotion, then we need to look at other qualities 

For me at least, playing entertaining football is an important factor, as is establishing an ethos, that will remain, no matter who the coach is

[Owls Loyal]

Ryan Lowe likes to play attacking football.

 

Monk does not even try to.

[@owlstalk]

43 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Ryan Lowe likes to play attacking football.

 

Monk does not even try to.

 

Nobody would even mention Ryan Lowe at all if he'd not played for us

[Jim]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Nobody would even mention Ryan Lowe at all if he'd not played for us

 

Maybe? That said he’s made a decent start to his managerial career. He’s getting plaudits from top managers and he’s stated he’s got the ambition to manage here. He was a well respected player here and I think he’s got the kind of personality that will unite the fan base and even though this might sound harsh, one things he’s got going for himself is that he isn’t Monk.

[Blue and white]

3 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

I’m struggling for names... Hughton or Warnock would fit that track record criteria although we were turned down by the former and the latter probably is done with full time management.

 

After that it’s a case of going with some young, fresh and untested which might not work anyway. That said, I don’t think it’s a good reason for keeping Monk. It’s like when you’ve had enough of your bird and it’s not working, but you have doubts about being able to get a new one. Never works to just hold on for no reason 

McCarthy 

[Owls-Fan]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Nobody would even mention Ryan Lowe at all if he'd not played for us

Hmm this reminds me of when people used to say “we wouldn’t even be talking about George if his surname wasn’t Hirst”,  despite the fact he was our most promising young player for about 20 years who was playing for England youth teams and being watched by both the Manchester clubs. 
 

Personally I don’t care that Lowe use to play for us, it’s the fact he’s a highly rated lower league manager that I feel is important to what we need. 
 

If there’s other highly rated young lower league managers then I’m up for them being our manager too. 

[mcmigo]

Once again, I will point out that changing the manager will make no difference if he has to pick players of the standard of da Cruz , Van aken etc. Some of our players, and I include fletcher, are old and injury prone. Some are nowhere near good enough for this league. A handful have quality when on form and fit. 
without big squad changes we are , as we have been for 3 seasons, a poor ish mid table team. Always likely there will be 3 worse teams in the league than us however.

[Blue and white]

37 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

Once again, I will point out that changing the manager will make no difference if he has to pick players of the standard of da Cruz , Van aken etc. Some of our players, and I include fletcher, are old and injury prone. Some are nowhere near good enough for this league. A handful have quality when on form and fit. 
without big squad changes we are , as we have been for 3 seasons, a poor ish mid table team. Always likely there will be 3 worse teams in the league than us however.

Hard to argue with.

The squad has needed a full for years and now is the perfect opportunity with so many out of contract.

[@owlstalk]

1 hour ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

Maybe? That said he’s made a decent start to his managerial career. He’s getting plaudits from top managers and he’s stated he’s got the ambition to manage here. He was a well respected player here and I think he’s got the kind of personality that will unite the fan base and even though this might sound harsh, one things he’s got going for himself is that he isn’t Monk.

 

That would be such a Danny Wilson style move though if we gave it to Ryan Lowe