Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread 2020-2021

[gurujuan]

Just now, GLOwl said:

As I said, it didn't turn out well and we suffered for a long time after. You can't appease a few at the expense of the many. Short termism, it didn't work and set us back loads.

I’m not sure Carlos can be blamed for following the chairman’s brief

[stocksyuto]

1 minute ago, bladeshater said:

People forget Westwood was absolutely hopeless before he was left out

Yea and his last game he played was that absolute disaster game just before his 'injury'

[GLOwl]

3 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I’m not sure Carlos can be blamed for following the chairman’s brief

The chairman's brief surely didn't include "let Hutchinson and Westwood train when they want, play all the time, and boss/bully some of the others"?!

Carlos's lack of discipline cost us, short term and much longer term. We weren't the fittest group during his time, if we were we might have made it a success rather than a glorious failure.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

3 minutes ago, GLOwl said:

The chairman's brief surely didn't include "let Hutchinson and Westwood train when they want, play all the time, and boss/bully some of the others"?!

Carlos's lack of discipline cost us, short term and much longer term. We weren't the fittest group during his time, if we were we might have made it a success rather than a glorious failure.

So by this logic, we should have got rid of both of them years ago, when Westwood was undoubtedly the best keeper in the league at that time. He was even voted as such in the Championship team of the year.

 

Plenty of players adapt their training schedules to manage injuries, happens all the time. What matters is what happens on the pitch at 3pm on a Saturday, and both these two played well in the games so to be quite honest, how frequently they trained just isn't important. 

 

The reasons for our demise have little to do with Carlos and everything to do with how the finances and squad turnover have been managed. Practically everything we did from the moment Chansiri arrived until after Wembley couldn't really be faulted, we played well throughout the season, deservedly made the play offs and then came up short against a more experienced and more physical Hull side managed by a serial promotion winner.

 

Where it went wrong is after that. We broke our wage structure by signing Fletcher, then that upset Forestieri. We also gave big pay rises to a lot of the squad including Lees, Hutchinson and Lee. So our costs went up for the same team we had already. We also signed Abdi and Jones which was very clearly not what was needed when we knew we needed a Mo Diame or Tom Huddlestone type of player. We had the chance to sell players around that time including Lees to PL Burnley for about £6m or Forestieri to Newcastle for £10m+.

 

Instead we sold nobody. Whether players get sold is the chairman and his advisors remit not the coaches. A savvy club would have cashed in 2-3 of those players while their stock was high, raised £20m then brought in some quality players to fill gaps in the squad.

 

If anything its all gone wrong because Chansiri's advisors are inadequate and he's too loyal to get rid of them, and he's also made some shocking managerial appointments giving them too much time, plus got unlucky with the Bruce situation. The last 3 years we've been desperate for a refresh but unable to do anything due to FFP and we've left ourselves with no saleable assets.

 

It baffles me why some of our fans think the reasons we're no good anymore isn't because we're unable to sign players of the quality of Westwood and Hutchinson but instead its because we don't have enough loyal triers. Money talks and it predetermines most teams' success. We know this is the case otherwise the same 6 teams wouldn't finish at the top of the Prem most years. There are obviously a few exceptions to this but its not the norm, its just a shame that one of them is in the other third of the city.

 

 

[oldishowl]

47 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Was a major problem when they 'ran the dressing room' and we used to win most weeks. Thank god we have Monk running it now who knows what a winning dressing room looks like

They didn’t run the dressing room though.

Carlos had sensible , respected individuals like Loovens, the captain, and Semedo keeping everybody in order.

For his last season that’s all Semedo did.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

They didn’t run the dressing room though.

Carlos had sensible , respected individuals like Loovens, the captain, and Semedo keeping everybody in order.

For his last season that’s all Semedo did.

 

Didn’t keep Westwood and Hutchinson in order enough to train when they were told to 

 

Law unto themselves under Carlos 

[Westfield Owl]

9 hours ago, Philb125 said:

I’m not sure you’ll see 4 or 5 new first teamers arrive at all, let alone before start of season. 
 

Assuming we play 352 (big assumption I know) then I’d expect: 

 

Dawson/Wildsmith 

 

Iorfa/Palmer

Lees/New CB?

Borner/Van Aken

 

Moses/Reach 

Harris/Penney

 

New DCM?/Joey/Shaw

Bannan/Hunt

Luongo/FDB

 

Rhodes??/New Fwd??

New Fwd??/New Fwd??

 

So strikers are essential but other than that we’ve got decent completion for places in all other positions and even defensive midfield there’s no guarantee we won’t go Luongo, FDB and Bannan rather than out and out defensive mid. 
 

Unless we shift some, I just don’t see us signing that many. 

 

That team smells of relegation.

 

Throw in the points deduction and it’s a near certainty, unless we somehow sign 3 x 20 goal strikers and N’Golo Kante’s clone in CDM.

[GLOwl]

2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

So by this logic, we should have got rid of both of them years ago, when Westwood was undoubtedly the best keeper in the league at that time. He was even voted as such in the Championship team of the year.

 

Plenty of players adapt their training schedules to manage injuries, happens all the time. What matters is what happens on the pitch at 3pm on a Saturday, and both these two played well in the games so to be quite honest, how frequently they trained just isn't important. 

 

The reasons for our demise have little to do with Carlos and everything to do with how the finances and squad turnover have been managed. Practically everything we did from the moment Chansiri arrived until after Wembley couldn't really be faulted, we played well throughout the season, deservedly made the play offs and then came up short against a more experienced and more physical Hull side managed by a serial promotion winner.

 

Where it went wrong is after that. We broke our wage structure by signing Fletcher, then that upset Forestieri. We also gave big pay rises to a lot of the squad including Lees, Hutchinson and Lee. So our costs went up for the same team we had already. We also signed Abdi and Jones which was very clearly not what was needed when we knew we needed a Mo Diame or Tom Huddlestone type of player. We had the chance to sell players around that time including Lees to PL Burnley for about £6m or Forestieri to Newcastle for £10m+.

 

Instead we sold nobody. Whether players get sold is the chairman and his advisors remit not the coaches. A savvy club would have cashed in 2-3 of those players while their stock was high, raised £20m then brought in some quality players to fill gaps in the squad.

 

If anything its all gone wrong because Chansiri's advisors are inadequate and he's too loyal to get rid of them, and he's also made some shocking managerial appointments giving them too much time, plus got unlucky with the Bruce situation. The last 3 years we've been desperate for a refresh but unable to do anything due to FFP and we've left ourselves with no saleable assets.

 

It baffles me why some of our fans think the reasons we're no good anymore isn't because we're unable to sign players of the quality of Westwood and Hutchinson but instead its because we don't have enough loyal triers. Money talks and it predetermines most teams' success. We know this is the case otherwise the same 6 teams wouldn't finish at the top of the Prem most years. There are obviously a few exceptions to this but its not the norm, its just a shame that one of them is in the other third of the city.

 

 

I don't have the time to answer all your points, but you've gone way way off topic. I never said we should have got rid of them, nor have I questioned their quality. I said they shouldn't have been allowed to train when they wanted and turn in to the characters they became. That lack of discipline from Carlos set the rot for fitness and general player attitude and it ran and ran.

All your comments about chansiri and finances have never been part of the discussion, although I agree with the majority of what you say

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

7 hours ago, Philb125 said:

Im glad you typed it in CAPITALS. Must be true now you’ve done that! Valuable insight, great logic, positive and supportive as ever. 

That’s the best come back you have? So obviously you agree then. We have some decent defenders, some decent midfielder , a bit weak in the wide areas and the worst keepers (bar Westwood) and attack in the league. Isn’t that just me being honest? Why should I be ‘positive?’ Unless we sign players soon we are doomed 

[stocksyuto]

Another wannabe know it all

[WalthamOwl]

3 hours ago, stocksyuto said:

Yea and his last game he played was that absolute disaster game just before his 'injury'

And the last game Dawson played he was a disaster. We need a new number one signed. 

[stocksyuto]

4 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said:

And the last game Dawson played he was a disaster. We need a new number one signed. 

Agreed 100% dc should be looking to loan 1 from the prem 

Edited August 8, 2020 by stocksyuto

[TheCityIsOurs]

[Bluesteel]

4 hours ago, GLOwl said:

Carlos let them do what they want, train when they liked and run the dressing room for him. Bruce wasn't here long enough to fall out with them.

The point I'm making is that when 2 managers fall out with the same few players, the evidence points to the players being the problem and not the managers.

I agree with this generally but Bruce is such a good man manager he will have known how to manage them and they will have respected him as a successful player  too. He was exactly what was needed to get a final tune from that team. But now it’s a chance for someone to do their own thing 

[Rogers]

3 hours ago, GLOwl said:

The chairman's brief surely didn't include "let Hutchinson and Westwood train when they want, play all the time, and boss/bully some of the others"?!

Carlos's lack of discipline cost us, short term and much longer term. We weren't the fittest group during his time, if we were we might have made it a success rather than a glorious failure.

Paul McGrath and Ledley King trained when they wanted; Big Ron and Harry Redknapp did what they had to, to get the best out of them in match day. 

the bullying accusations..still no real facts surrounding this. Is there? 

 

[Yellowbelly]

12 minutes ago, Rogers said:

Paul McGrath and Ledley King trained when they wanted; Big Ron and Harry Redknapp did what they had to, to get the best out of them in match day. 

the bullying accusations..still no real facts surrounding this. Is there? 

 

The problem was the squads general fitness levels were far below what was required. This had a knock on effect long-term of various injuries to players which then affected their resale potential. Hence we were left with expensive crocks no one wanted and we had to let their contract run down so we could get rid of them. If Carlos had ensured his squad were following a strict fitness regime we wouldn’t have been left in the position we were in during season 3 - it cost him his job but it cost us far more.

[GLOwl]

19 minutes ago, Rogers said:

Paul McGrath and Ledley King trained when they wanted; Big Ron and Harry Redknapp did what they had to, to get the best out of them in match day. 

the bullying accusations..still no real facts surrounding this. Is there? 

 

Rhodes openly mentioned the bullying.

[owls101]

2 minutes ago, GLOwl said:

Rhodes openly mentioned the bullying.

Did he? When?

[Rogers]

10 minutes ago, GLOwl said:

Rhodes openly mentioned the bullying.

he gave his boots to a bullied kid once..

[Tommy Crawshaw]

4 hours ago, GLOwl said:

Carlos let them do what they want, train when they liked and run the dressing room for him. Bruce wasn't here long enough to fall out with them.

The point I'm making is that when 2 managers fall out with the same few players, the evidence points to the players being the problem and not the managers.

 

Yet Gray, Carlos, Bruce and Bullen didn't fall out with them. So that's 4 who have managed them without a problem to 2 Jos and Monk who have had a problem., who coincidentally have been the worst managers results wise. By your rules the evidence points to those 2 managers being the problem.

 

Oh and where's your evidence they ran the dressing room?

 

4 hours ago, GLOwl said:

The chairman's brief surely didn't include "let Hutchinson and Westwood train when they want, play all the time, and boss/bully some of the others"?!

 

Again where's your evidence they bullied other players?

 

3 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Plenty of players adapt their training schedules to manage injuries, happens all the time. What matters is what happens on the pitch at 3pm on a Saturday, and both these two played well in the games so to be quite honest, how frequently they trained just isn't important. 

 

I agree...