Jim Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 minute ago, gurujuan said: That may be the scenario, in which case there is a huge issue. We know that Monk cannot motivate, or coax a performance out of this group of players, and the only realistic hope was, that he could change the personnel If we are now saying it will be difficult for him to drastically change the dynamic, by bringing players in, then the obvious conclusion is, bring in a coach who can work with the existing players I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Jim said: I agree. Sadly that is the only alternative. We cannot go into such an important season, with half the squad knowing they are not wanted by the manager, and half the fan base, again saying, wait until next summer when we can have another clear out 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 I think with how Monk likes to play it is inevitable and correct that we try and sign a big and hopefully mobile forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the third man Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: Westwood is gone effectively and IMO opinion correctly. His form was dire before he was dropped and there's no evidence that he's recovered it given that he declared himself unfit again when required to sit on the bench. It was up to him to fight for his place back; he didn't. BTW check the dozen or so results immediately after and before he was dropped and cast your mind back to the howlers he made. Ideally we'd have a bigger personnel change than is likely possible this summer. But FF, Fletcher, Morgan and Winnall's departures plus likely Westwood and maybe Rhodes will give some scope to recruit. The recruitment team need to get busy though as it's a short window. Rhodes and Westwood are going nowhere unless we cover a large proportion of their wages, so those two going will not free up much money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, deano said: I think with how Monk likes to play it is inevitable and correct that we try and sign a big and hopefully mobile forward. I’d love us to go after Moore from Wigan, he looks awesome playing for Wales and is a real threat. Unfortunately looks like he’s heading to Cardiff. They’ll be a threat next season with him. Won’t be pretty but it’ll be very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 minute ago, deano said: I think with how Monk likes to play it is inevitable and correct that we try and sign a big and hopefully mobile forward. Whatever way he does it, we need to be lining up with no more than 5 or 6 of last season’s starting line up. A new strike pairing is a must, as is a proper left back, a defensive midfielder, and someone to replace Murphy. That’s the very least we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, TheOwlsofDodworth said: Going to be interesting to see how other clubs in Championship get on Gives you a sense of how we're comparing Are we reading about our rivals in the league making quality signings whilst we seem slow, or is it much of a muchness so far.... These are interesting times, kind of enjoying the ride fair point however I’m not sure many clubs need as many new signings as we do with the ‘big clearout’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: The results IMO belied the performances post lockdown. Glaring individual errors and profligacy in front of goal cost us rather than system or motivation. The games did however highlight the need for two new strikers at least. I think that’s a fair point, but it’s results that shape your season, and individual errors are part and parcel of the game. There were brief flickering’s amongst the chaos, but certainly not enough to convince me that we were on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Just now, gurujuan said: Whatever way he does it, we need to be lining up with no more than 5 or 6 of last season’s starting line up. A new strike pairing is a must, as is a proper left back, a defensive midfielder, and someone to replace Murphy. That’s the very least we need. I’m not sure you’ll see 4 or 5 new first teamers arrive at all, let alone before start of season. Assuming we play 352 (big assumption I know) then I’d expect: Dawson/Wildsmith Iorfa/Palmer Lees/New CB? Borner/Van Aken Moses/Reach Harris/Penney New DCM?/Joey/Shaw Bannan/Hunt Luongo/FDB Rhodes??/New Fwd?? New Fwd??/New Fwd?? So strikers are essential but other than that we’ve got decent completion for places in all other positions and even defensive midfield there’s no guarantee we won’t go Luongo, FDB and Bannan rather than out and out defensive mid. Unless we shift some, I just don’t see us signing that many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kagoshimaowl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: Westwood is gone effectively and IMO opinion correctly. His form was dire before he was dropped and there's no evidence that he's recovered it given that he declared himself unfit again when required to sit on the bench. It was up to him to fight for his place back; he didn't. BTW check the dozen or so results immediately after and before he was dropped and cast your mind back to the howlers he made. Ideally we'd have a bigger personnel change than is likely possible this summer. But FF, Fletcher, Morgan and Winnall's departures plus likely Westwood and maybe Rhodes will give some scope to recruit. The recruitment team need to get busy though as it's a short window. Still better than Wildsmith and Calamity Cam. He never chucked the ball in his own net (Wildsmith X2) or got megged (Dawson for what it seems like every match). They are both truly dire. I agree Westy isn’t what he used to be but he’s still the best of the three by far. Edited August 8, 2020 by Kagoshimaowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Philb125 said: I’m not sure you’ll see 4 or 5 new first teamers arrive at all, let alone before start of season. Assuming we play 352 (big assumption I know) then I’d expect: Dawson/Wildsmith Iorfa/Palmer Lees/New CB? Borner/Van Aken Moses/Reach Harris/Penney New DCM?/Joey/Shaw Bannan/Hunt Luongo/FDB Rhodes??/New Fwd?? New Fwd??/New Fwd?? So strikers are essential but other than that we’ve got decent completion for places in all other positions and even defensive midfield there’s no guarantee we won’t go Luongo, FDB and Bannan rather than out and out defensive mid. Unless we shift some, I just don’t see us signing that many. I’m pretty certain we won’t be using that system, it was hardly a roaring success. Looking at what you’ve suggested, it’s not so different from my bare minimum. You are saying maybe four new guys in place, whereas I’m thinking five, with the only other difference being between, a centre back or a left back, depending on what system we play. I could go with four new players to start the season, well five with FDB, as long as they were targeted in areas where we are short. We will need those new faces, if we are to change the dynamic of the side. Other changes, as you say, will probably have to wait until others move out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kagoshimaowl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, Philb125 said: I’m not sure you’ll see 4 or 5 new first teamers arrive at all, let alone before start of season. Assuming we play 352 (big assumption I know) then I’d expect: Dawson/Wildsmith Iorfa/Palmer Lees/New CB? Borner/Van Aken Moses/Reach Harris/Penney New DCM?/Joey/Shaw Bannan/Hunt Luongo/FDB Rhodes??/New Fwd?? New Fwd??/New Fwd?? So strikers are essential but other than that we’ve got decent completion for places in all other positions and even defensive midfield there’s no guarantee we won’t go Luongo, FDB and Bannan rather than out and out defensive mid. Unless we shift some, I just don’t see us signing that many. Unfortunately I think you’re right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: Hmm, yes a reasonable assessment Unfortunately yes it is, i suppose we are just going to have to hope we stumble upon a young gem that we can sell on for an obscene amount of money to help our finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Philb125 said: I’m not sure you’ll see 4 or 5 new first teamers arrive at all, let alone before start of season. Assuming we play 352 (big assumption I know) then I’d expect: Dawson/Wildsmith Iorfa/Palmer Lees/New CB? Borner/Van Aken Moses/Reach Harris/Penney New DCM?/Joey/Shaw Bannan/Hunt Luongo/FDB Rhodes??/New Fwd?? New Fwd??/New Fwd?? So strikers are essential but other than that we’ve got decent completion for places in all other positions and even defensive midfield there’s no guarantee we won’t go Luongo, FDB and Bannan rather than out and out defensive mid. Unless we shift some, I just don’t see us signing that many. 3-4 injuries and a suspension and that squad is screwed. It's quite common for us to have that many out at once. We need about 7-8 players for me. Some of those will be loans. But anything less and we are setting ourselves up for league 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: Fair enough but personally I saw enough post lockdown to persuade me that the trimmed down squad was certainly motivated and the passing and movement was actually better than for a good while.... possibly IMO dating back to season one Carlos. I actually enjoyed watching us... not obviously the results though and I hadn't for ages. Results ultimately is the arbiter and a few recruits are imperative as are a couple at least of leavers. Achieve this and there'll be no more hiding places for Monk next season I'd agree. That’s probably what I was referring to, with my comments about brief flickering’s, there were patches where the football was a little more enjoyable. Hoping he can build on that, but it will depend entirely on him bringing in the right players For me, everything about those post lockdown line ups, was makeshift, and that’s why this window is absolutely huge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Just now, TheEnchanter said: 3-4 injuries and a suspension and that squad is screwed. It's quite common for us to have that many out at once. We need about 7-8 players for me. Some of those will be loans. But anything less and we are setting ourselves up for league 1. I don’t disagree, it was more about the start of season rather than end of the window. I suspect like most clubs we’ll sign 2-3 later in the transfer window to add to 2-3 that will need to come in before season starts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Sadly that is the only alternative. We cannot go into such an important season, with half the squad knowing they are not wanted by the manager, and half the fan base, again saying, wait until next summer when we can have another clear out And that will definitely happen next summer as 80% of the current squad is out of contract and we most likely will be in League 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: 3-4 injuries and a suspension and that squad is screwed. It's quite common for us to have that many out at once. We need about 7-8 players for me. Some of those will be loans. But anything less and we are setting ourselves up for league 1. This yes, and it’s also about balance, the side, or even the squad, looked totally unbalanced 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOwlsofDodworth Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 31 minutes ago, WalthamOwl said: fair point however I’m not sure many clubs need as many new signings as we do with the ‘big clearout’ That is a good point. Some clubs will already be building on progress from last season. Shows you the task at hand, if Monk can pull this off, he'll have worked a small miracle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said: Westwood is gone effectively and IMO opinion correctly. His form was dire before he was dropped and there's no evidence that he's recovered it given that he declared himself unfit again when required to sit on the bench. It was up to him to fight for his place back; he didn't. BTW check the dozen or so results immediately after and before he was dropped and cast your mind back to the howlers he made. Ideally we'd have a bigger personnel change than is likely possible this summer. But FF, Fletcher, Morgan and Winnall's departures plus likely Westwood and maybe Rhodes will give some scope to recruit. The recruitment team need to get busy though as it's a short window. He may have made some howlers but we weren’t going at 2 goals a game when he was in the team. Like it or not if he stays he has to play. Playing either Wildsmith or Dawson now is off the table due to being 12 points behind everyone else. They can’t handle standard pressure never mind the pressure and scrutiny that they’re going to face next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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