Players need to go - Monk

[Guest The Horse]

I've worked in toxic team environments before and if there's a clique of bad apples it affects everyone, even on their days off.

Many years ago, I worked in a kitchen in a restaurant and the guys who worked their asses off, the ones who would pick up shifts and be the most productive started to drop off and found excuses to no longer pick up shifts when they saw that the idiots who slacked off, called in sick at an hour's notice and had the manager in their back pocket and generally take the wee wee were allowed to get away with it with no reprimand.

Now obviously, that job and pay is a world away from football but humans are still humans and will be affected in the same way if that sort of culture pervades - no matter who's on the pitch at the time.

It's great to see that Monk has the balls to call it out as he has but unfortunately he needs the squad at the moment as there's no-one else to replace them with.

It's gonna take a while this one and could get real ugly until the summer when he can start cutting out the rot.

[Broom hall owl]

As for Monk I really believe you can only wee wee with the wee wee tail you've got so carry on and fizz this shower of poo off 

[S36 OWL]

3 minutes ago, Broom hall owl said:

As for Monk I really believe you can only wee wee with the wee wee tail you've got so carry on and fizz this shower of poo off 

 

[DJMortimer]

21 minutes ago, Broom hall owl said:

As for Monk I really believe you can only wee wee with the wee wee tail you've got so carry on and fizz this shower of poo off 

 

Delicately put.

 

[brando]

Just now, DJMortimer said:

 

Delicately put.

 

think we may be changing places with Rotherham...how bad is that...5 defeat's in 6 we are wvak

[Lord Snooty]

3 hours ago, brando said:

think we may be changing places with Rotherham...how bad is that...5 defeat's in 6 we are wvak

 

There's plenty of points up for grabs yet Branders. 

Who knows, the new lad might come in and hit the ground running and start popping goals in for fun. 

 

 

[Kopparberg]

4 hours ago, Broom hall owl said:

As for Monk I really believe you can only wee wee with the wee wee tail you've got so carry on and fizz this shower of poo off 

 

This swear filter was either created by Neil or a 3 year old...

 

 

 

[Ante's Bubbly]

On 28/01/2020 at 23:25, 2roland2 said:

That’s the talk of a manager passing the book to keep himself out of bother, he’s partly right but his tactics and style of play do t suit this squad. It’s the same shirt every game. 
 

poor players, poor tactics, poor performances poor substitutions poor manager. 
 

I tried to wait before I cam on to calm down but after watching g yet another display of poo from top to bottom I can’t be calm.....

 

his substitutions baffle me as well most of the time I didn’t want him as manger before he came, im liking him even less now. 
 

 

Stop being baffled by Monk's substitutions. Those same comments have been levelled at several of our recent managers, yet players have often come off due to injury and despite the player coming on not being deemed the right player to start the game, the same players Monk has been slated for bringing on have often come on and scored. I notice now that Fox is everybody's hero, yet so many were slagging him off before Monk worked his magic on him. If some of our seniorcplayers want to play their own game and not put the effort in for the team, the club and the fans then I agree 100% with Monk, they need to go. It was not poor tatics that failed us in recent games, it was poor levels of concentration, bad finishing, poor defending and lack of effort. The Blackburn game was just one example of how poorly some players have played recently. The game against QPR showed that the players can work hard when they have been called upon to respond and work harder until the final whistle but still a poor pass from an experienced defender and a rushed clearance from our young goalie and we nearly threw away a hard fought victory. If we had lost that game it would not have been Monks fault either. Monk needs to be allowed to get the players out who are holding us back and replace them with the players he wants to drive us forward. Hopefully that process is already in motion. We are not automatic promotion candidates, but Monk has made us possible contenders. Lets hope with a bit of added strength and pace we can play Monks style of football to greater effect.    

[Ante's Bubbly]

15 hours ago, Musn't Grumble said:

 

You don't need many rotten apples to turn the whole team sour.

 

If you are aware of just one player in your team who isn't pulling their weight or if they are working in a different direction it is not too hard to imagine what you and your teammates will start thinking when it's your turn.

Seen exactly what you say happen at various different levels from under 11s upwards to our beloved Owls, over the last 50 years. Seen the opposite happen too when the bad apples have gone. Lets hope we get to see it again very soon. So many buffoons stuck up for certain mouthy idiots at our club and had a go at the younger players coming in for them. There are players still hero worshipped that set bad examples in traing and really should have been given warnings then sacked, like in any other place of work. People were saying recently that our club is too soft and too nice on the pitch. Well it is certainly too soft off it. The players are molly coddled and some are given too much slack and too much money. Let them earn it or get out. 

[victorturner]

1 minute ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

Seen exactly what you say happen at various different levels from under 11s upwards to our beloved Owls, over the last 50 years. Seen the opposite happen too when the bad apples have gone. Lets hope we get to see it again very soon. So many buffoons stuck up for certain mouthy idiots at our club and had a go at the younger players coming in for them. There are players still hero worshipped that set bad examples in traing and really should have been given warnings then sacked, like in any other place of work. People were saying recently that our club is too soft and too nice on the pitch. Well it is certainly too soft off it. The players are molly coddled and some are given too much slack and too much money. Let them earn it or get out. 

Was this team third at Christmas? With Fletcher out, has the management been able to adjust or is it floundering? Rhodes hat trick surely ought to have guaranteed him a spot esp when Fletcher was crocked in the Cup at BHA. It’s not just bad apples. They were there before when we were third place.

[Ante's Bubbly]

9 hours ago, victorturner said:

Was this team third at Christmas? With Fletcher out, has the management been able to adjust or is it floundering? Rhodes hat trick surely ought to have guaranteed him a spot esp when Fletcher was crocked in the Cup at BHA. It’s not just bad apples. They were there before when we were third place.

 

Sorry, but you just don't get it do you? The manager was here for those games too, but although he didn't score any goals, get in a last minute tackle or interception, he didn't give stupid goals away, or miss golden opportunities in front of goal either.

 

If the bad apples were under performing every game we wouldn't be discussing this now would we, because everybody would want them out. When judging players, people need to be more level headed and to forget personalities and irrational feelings for how good they think a player is and check out what they actually do for the team consistently. The selfless stuff that players like Reach does, is something you either see or don't see, but stats sites like whoscored.com show the stats over the season for every player and give match by match stats so you can see how each player performs individually and how they match up against the players around them for the opposition.

 

You cannot make cases against players based solely on the things they have not done while ignoring all the things that they have. Certain players for us have decent, or half decent stats in some games compared to their team mates, but some of those players have hit some real lows in more than just a couple of games, while not hitting the high spots often enough. We also have a few players that make big, game changing mistakes, over and over again and it is not Monk's fault that they are at the club, or that he has to play them because we have nobody else! We all see a player score a great goal, make a great tackle, or play a perfect ball in occasionally and think yes, he's first on the team sheet next time, but players are not just measured by their infrequent high performances, they are also measured by their low performances and their average performances, because that is the only way you can measure a players reliability. I don't even bother reading now when players are telling us that they have learned their lessons, or that they will not let the fans down, we heard all that from some of the players before several very big games where the same players did go on to let us down badly and it will continue to happen until we start getting enough players in that deliver results. We need players that cannot stand the idea of losing and are willing to fight for the points, the shirt, the fans and for their team mates. We need players all over the pitch that are prepared to take control of what is happening and drive their team mates on. I only hope that our multi mistake making owner would stop messing about and give somebody that actually knows what they are doing, control of the club so that we can regain our identity and direction, which should be steadily upwards. 

[Ante's Bubbly]

Just now, 2roland2 said:

but your saying monk has made fox into a good player ( he’s playing very well I agree) but then blaming everyone else for going backwards. If your goi g to give him credit for making a player better you can’t ignore the players who have regressed which is nearly the entire sqaud. 
as for making us contenders, I disagree, we have gone backwards, in terms of league positions and performances. We are currently in 11th place in a season where no team as shown any consistency. 
 

 

So how come when everybody was available we magically got to third in the table, with an old striker that has a top goals return of 12 or 13, when in his prime, yet he had 11 goals to his name and every player was playing well. Did the players all ignore Monk and come up with some wonderful plan of their own, that they all understood and battled for? Try watching full match replays of some of those games and ask yourself if the players are trying as hard now and making less mistakes? Going in and out of the team, but playing well. So do a handful of our players only play well when they do what the gaffer says and we get to third place, or are we doing most things right, but making bad mistakes at both ends of the pitch because we are missing key players in both areas? Sorry mate, there are lots of different reasons why we have dropped points recently, but we did not drop out of the playoffs to 11th because our tactics suddenly became found out, or rubbish. Some of the players who have come in for injured or "ill" players have not always played well enough, players that we looked to as the backbone of the team have not been performing for whatever reason and a couple of young players have come in and had a blinder then been expected to do that every game and not by the manager, by the senior players around them and by the stupid fans that elevate any player we have to god status, after one good move, one good game, or one bit of good fortune.

 

Whether people like Monk or not should not be the issue here. He has done a good job with what he has available, but at the moment we are down to bare bones in some areas and the players filling in are just not good enough and the senior players who have been heavily criticised now by several of our recent managers, are just not pulling their weight.  

[Ante's Bubbly]

1 minute ago, 2roland2 said:

im not sticking up for the players at all, Fox aside and maybe a coup,e of others they are playing like twats. 
 

but we were third for about two minutes we are now 11th and 5 points off play offs   The reason we were in the playoffs is because fletcher can play the way monk wants and was in the form of his life. 
what happens when the player leading the lines gets injured or if he had a drop in form?  This happens. 
we are still trying to play the same way without a forward who can lead the line for us to do that.  Sorry but for me that is t ffp doing a good job, that’s seeing something Is t working and carrying on regardless. 
 

again I will savage, I agree we need a clear out of players, but to absolve monk entirely because some of the players aren’t putting it in is barmy,  let’s see if he trots the same players out over the next few games, like he has since he got here. If he does then he deserves everything he gets.  If he starts maki g examples and trying to change the one dimensional  game plan the. Fair play. 
im not holding my breath mind. 
 

 

I tell you what, the way we played in getting to third spot was good to see and obviously very effective and with better players it could be quite devastating. Not many idiots are going to take their team and their one dimensional game plan away to l**ds and do what we did there, or to QPR, or to Forest, or to Derby. As for the players, as soon as defenders and attackers become available I would trust Monk to get the best out of them. He has managed to get the best out of some of the players that have come in for a couple of games, but the reality is that those players are just not good enough now to keep up the effort levels that Monk has managed to squeeze out of them.

 

Odubajo for example has come in and done really well in one game, without rugby tackling every player that goes past him, but soon reverted to type after that. Urhoghide came in and managed to fill in quite well for a couple of games, but the pressure was too much for him in the Blackburn game and he just was not able to cope. Borner, who looks like captain material when he is fully fit, looks as though he is struggling badly with a lack of pace for whatever reason recently, after being in and out of the side with a niggly injury, but was looking very good before that under Monk. Up front we have just not got any real goal machines other than Rhodes, if he gets it on a plate with no defender near him, or Nuhiu who just works so hard that he drives us forward single handedly at times, but could do with a partner up there with him. Also, as I pointed out before the Wigan match, the only two fit central midfielders at the club, defensive, or attacking were Bannan and Pelupessy and Bannan has not been anywhere near his best recently, apart from the occasional worldy through ball and has often insisted on staying way too far back, way too often and lumping the ball high to Winnal, to battle against giants!  

[billyblack]

No offers for any of our shower yet?

[s29wfc]

Haven't read through all of the thread so not sure it been mentioned but who out of the first team squad are out of contract in the summer? 

Obviously these the players to go back-

 

Bates 

Murphy 

Da Cruz 

[Ante's Bubbly]

29 minutes ago, 2roland2 said:

will leave you to it fella, not sure where you are goi g with it, you keep slagging the players the. Saying monk is getting g the best from them then back to the players not being up for it or good enough. 
Its obvious to me the drop in form was there from day one, apart from 2/3 games maybe we have looked poor but got some results. 
the results stopped when fletcher got injured or sorry was ill pre injury. Since then we have played the same game constantly and gone backwards massively. 
 

 

 

We're all entitled to our opinions 2roland2. I have explained in as much detail as I can without writing another novel what I think the problems are, but why do you think Monk is the one responsible for individual players making so many mistakes, players rising to the challenge one minute and not the next, players giving up altogether, or players not being good enough? The players themselves have told us in the press that they have been involved in aspects of Monk's style of play, because he wants them to use their strong points to play naturally and not be forced into trying to do things they are not good at.The players have told us that they bought into this, that they know what is expected of them and enjoy doing it, so how come it is Monk's fault when some of them decide not to try so hard, or totally switch off and make stupid mistakes? I know that at times some of the players were criticised vocally in the past and got confused or felt incapable of doing what was being asked of them, because of the pressure that they were put under, by the crowd, by themselves and by their team mates, but that all seems to be a thing of the past now. Monk has always tried to get the whole club going in the same direction together, again something that has got to be applauded hasn't it? You can't just say the team and players are all amazing when we are climbing up the table and then blame the manager when we have a run of bad results which came about mainly because some of those amazing players are either out of the team, or are now under-performing, or just not producing the end product, (not getting goals at one end and conceding too many at the other).

 

If you still think Monk is the problem then we will have to agree to disagree, but let's have the same conversation at the end of the season, because I think (and really hope I am right) that Monk will still be here and several of our under performing players will be going.

[Spookone]

16 hours ago, brando said:

think we may be changing places with Rotherham...how bad is that...5 defeat's in 6 we are wvak

No way will we go down     

[daveyboy66]

16 hours ago, brando said:

I hope that we may be changing places with Rotherham...how bad is that...5 defeat's in 6 we are wvak

there you go fixed it for you

[BARMYARMY2010]

16 hours ago, brando said:

think we may be changing places with Rotherham...how bad is that...5 defeat's in 6 we are wvak

Surrender monkey. 

[Ante's Bubbly]

24 minutes ago, s29wfc said:

Haven't read through all of the thread so not sure it been mentioned but who out of the first team squad are out of contract in the summer? 

Obviously these the players to go back-

 

Bates 

Murphy 

Da Cruz 

 

Contracts that could be ended, or renewed this summer:-

Loan players as you mentioned; Bates, Murphy, da Cruz, plus any others that join before Brexit tonight at 23:00

Paul Jones - Unclear

Baker - Already Gone

Fox

Aken

Penney

Lee

Pelupessy

Hutchinson

Nuhiu

Forestieri

Fletcher

Winnall

 

Odubajo has been told that he can go in the summer, if he can find another club and we have already let Thorniley go, so we will be a bit light right across the squad in summer, so Monk will hopefully get his chance then, as long as DC lets him.