2 Great wins but ......

[new zealand owl]

14 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I think we've struggled with both this formation and the 442 to break teams down.  I think it's more to do with the way the opposition sit back when they come to our and defy us to break them down. 

 

When you consider the two goals at Elland Road,  they're both brilliantly worked, but there's space for us to work them into. 

We just don't get afforded that sort of space at Hillsborough.

Which is often I think why we do use the 442 and try and bludgeon our way in. Especially when the crowd starts getting frustrated. 

 

I think the genuine answer to improve our ability to break teams down is cleverer players - in whatever formation we choose.

 

In the meantime I'm hopeful that the re emergence of Lee into the line up and Bannan playing higher than previously this season might give us the keys to unlock a few more. 

 

I said in another thread I think Lee coming back into the starting line up is so important. I am still not sure if he is the same player but we need someone with his attributes to pose more of a threat at home. 

 

I honestly think you win games in the midfield at home and with your defence away from home.  I would usually say a prolific striker helps but...hey we all know that!

[oldishowl]

There are several issues with 442 but the absolute key is that the front two have to be capable of causing a lot of problems for the centre halves.

 

In our big 442 victories , Boro Forest our strikers did. This meant we were playing in their half a lot and our wide players were in position to get lots of crosses in.

 

Against Stoke for example our front two got zilch out of Shawcross and Ba’ath and we never got out of our own half.

 

If you are not going to cause them trouble, and it will be a lot harder without Fletcher, then you may as well cut your losses and try and get something using the side we played Saturday with Lee and Luongo as far forward as possible.

[pat blondeau]

3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

At this moment in time with Fletcher injured our worst department is strikers.

 

Why in earth would we want to be playing two of them.

 

Play none. Do a Jos.

Agree with that (apart from do a Jos!)

 

But we need to get the other attackers scoring more. Harris, Murphy and Reach have 3, 3 and 2 goals this season. Wide attackers in a 4-3-3 should be aiming for 10-15 goals a season. 
 

Murphy had his best game in a Wednesday shirt on Saturday and took his goal well so could start chipping in with a few now.

 

Having Lee and Luongo in the middle will give us more of a goal threat too. Bannan and Hutch shouldn’t start together at home anymore 

[McRightSide]

28 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I suppose that’s the “problem” with the 433. Is Winnall or Rhodes that central striker? 
 

I still think we will see Rhodes-Nuhiu some games, but hopefully with Bannan and Luongo as the two-man midfield.

Don’t think we’ll see that combo too much more.. maybe Nuhiu - Winnall though

[gurujuan]

Until we can get new players in, no pairing of Nuhiu, Rhodes or Winnall, outweighs the benefits of the extra midfield player. That may change if we could pair Wickham and Adams for example 

[pazowl55]

6 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Until we can get new players in, no pairing of Nuhiu, Rhodes or Winnall, outweighs the benefits of the extra midfield player. That may change if we could pair Wickham and Adams for example 

Exactly I think Monk is slowly playing all our strikers one by one then almost hoping for the phone to ring for offers for them. Because apart from Fletcher they seem to get a game or two then it's on to the next for a game or two to see if they can cut it.   No!!!

 

  Eventually I will be right and he will go with none.

[Guest gizowl]

13 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Until we can get new players in, no pairing of Nuhiu, Rhodes or Winnall, outweighs the benefits of the extra midfield player. That may change if we could pair Wickham and Adams for example 

Agree,  we need to play 4 4 2 at home but for this to be effective we need more quality up front, Wickham with another, not sure about Adams, seems a little bit lazy, drifts in and out of games.

[pazowl55]

9 minutes ago, gizowl said:

Agree,  we need to play 4 4 2 at home but for this to be effective we need more quality up front, Wickham with another, not sure about Adams, seems a little bit lazy, drifts in and out of games.

And scored 22 goals in the process. We have lazy drift in and out of game strikers that get 2 goals.

 

Adams would be bloody amazing.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by pazowl55

[Philb125]

I’d not be opposed to playing three at the back at home, we see that there’s little space for us as the away side commits less going forward. So why do we need as much sitting back? 
 

A mobile back three of Iorfa, Borner and Fox, all capable of passing and carrying the ball allows us to pack midfield and play two up top. 
 

Rhodes off Nuhiu is our best hope in this set up. Maybe an option against the lessor teams we seemingly struggle against and get hit with sucker punch when over committing with 442. 

[Holmowl]

30 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

I’d not be opposed to playing three at the back at home, we see that there’s little space for us as the away side commits less going forward. So why do we need as much sitting back? 
 

A mobile back three of Iorfa, Borner and Fox, all capable of passing and carrying the ball allows us to pack midfield and play two up top. 
 

Rhodes off Nuhiu is our best hope in this set up. Maybe an option against the lessor teams we seemingly struggle against and get hit with sucker punch when over committing with 442. 

Not sure I’d play Fox and leave Lees out, but the idea of a back three allowing 5 midfielders and two attackers at home makes great sense.

 

You say “lesser teams” but tbh apart from WBA none of the teams we still have to play at home are outstanding. 
 

Reach has his faults but stamina and effort aren’t among them. I’d like to see Harris and Reach as wing-backs, a midfield three of Luongo, Lee and Bannan, and two of our three strikers.

[darklord]

9 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

How about instead of getting 3 points at home and one away...normal playoff strategy...we do it the wednesday way, three points away and a draw at home

 

 

How about 3 points at home and 3 points away? 

[Guest]

Pelupessy came on and released Bannan up the pitch on Saturday. Only reason why he was where he was for the second goal. I prefer to see it as three up top as oppose to one, striker with two wingers/inside forwards close enough to play off him. If that happens then we will create more chances, add to that Lee and Luongo breaking lines and fullbacks attacking we could have 5 or 6 in the box. 

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

Not sure I’d play Fox and leave Lees out, but the idea of a back three allowing 5 midfielders and two attackers at home makes great sense.

 

You say “lesser teams” but tbh apart from WBA none of the teams we still have to play at home are outstanding. 
 

Reach has his faults but stamina and effort aren’t among them. I’d like to see Harris and Reach as wing-backs, a midfield three of Luongo, Lee and Bannan, and two of our three strikers.

Fox is to good to be left out of the team at the minute and the last thing I want to see is two of Nuhiu, Winnall and Rhodes every week.  Harris as a wing back ain't sure about that either.  

As ridiculous as it sounds I would prefer Palmer and Fox as wingbacks and the two wing backs you had as a front two. That's how much I dont rate our our striker options we currently have available. Nuhiu is just about ok. But if Winnall and Rhodes dont get on the scoresheet then you get nothing from them.

[jonnyowl]

I think we will see much better link up play from the midfield and forward line if we stick with Bannan at the base of the midfield with Lee and Luongo both breaking forward.

 

Our problem is when Bannan and Hutch are in the middle they are both stood next to each other and both play too deep to come get the ball off the defence . 

[deano]

10 hours ago, York_Owl said:

The three man central midfield suits our midfield better especially Bannan, arguably our best player.

 

If we want to play two strikers I’d prefer 3-5-2 over 4-4-2.

That's a good shout, but for me subject to getting a couple of good strikers. 

 

Our strength is certainly in that 5 man midfield. 

[Ronnie Starling]

10 hours ago, nilsson said:

25 goals away from home. Only Man City and Leicester are ahead of us in all four leagues for away goals.

 

14 goals at home (with a few pens too). Only Wigan are behind us in the championship for home goals.

 

Monk needs to find a way to get us scoring at Hillsborough 

Maybe if we played the football a bit more than playing it back to our defenders might increase our goal tally.

[Outrageousowl]

10 hours ago, nilsson said:

25 goals away from home. Only Man City and Leicester are ahead of us in all four leagues for away goals.

 

14 goals at home (with a few pens too). Only Wigan are behind us in the championship for home goals.

 

Monk needs to find a way to get us scoring at Hillsborough 

Wow, thas a crazy stat!

Says it all really.

[thewookieisdown]

It seems pretty unlikely we'll start dominating teams at Hillsborough, doesn't it. I mean, we haven't generally done so this season, and things tend not to change all that quickly. Tentatively, the two things that might make a significant difference are if we have Lee operating consistently at say 80-90% of his 2015 level, and one of the wide players grabbing it. Has Murphy got his mojo, we wonder.

 

That's not to say we can expect bad results - until Cardiff our home record has been fine. But it's what we are, and why we are a fringe play off side rather than embedded in the top six looking up.

[gurujuan]

It’s unlikely that we can find the solution from within. We don’t have the midfield to play 4-4-2, so I see it as a bit pointless to switch from a three man midfield, in order to make up for shortcomings further forward We are currently set up better to win games away from home

[TheEnchanter]

Its how we play. Not the formation. 

 

Some home games this season we've hardly looked arsed, not won any 2st or 2nd balls, strolled around the pitch doing nothing.