Guest Ferkorf Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 15/11/2019 at 20:27, Bouncing Owl said: Lots of flapping. End of the day, we have no control of what’s going on, so why worry about it? Flapping is an understatement, no wonder SAG is always harrassing us. Probably spend 5mins a day reading a meltdown on owlstalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, bronxowl said: Why doesn’t Mr. Chansiri transfer the debt from the club to himself, sorted. The issue is not that the other entity has not paid for the stadium. It is another Maguire red herring. In answer to your question then I could put my accounting alchemy at work to have "paid" for the stadium. Pee easy In fact I suspect what we will discover is that this will be the route DC channels his personal funds that prop up the Club each year as opposed to continually increasing the shareholder loan balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ferkorf Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, torres said: The support we get is the main thing I’m currently proud of with regards my club, one I pay large amounts of hard earned money to support - along with 22 thousand others. Nothing else currently springs to mind. That I’m afraid is due to how we are run. I’m embarrassed and angered by our pricing structure for our own and away fans I’m disheartened by how we’ve recruited over the past 5 years I’m disappointed by the amounts we pay in wages for the return we see on the pitch I’m frustrated by the lack of business sense the club seem to have on so many levels And I’m left bewildered by how we constantly fail to comply to the league rules Chansiri has offered fans the chance to vent their frustrations in a face to face manner. If you are that worried why dont you nip and see him, Im sure it wont be long till he calls another fans forum thing you can go to if you are that frustrated about how things are run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 45 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said: Of course your argument would also have to take into account the SAG affair which would be seen as reducing the value of Hillsborough. Maybe that's the ulterior motive of SAG if your inclined to see conspiracy. Land and Property are rarely depreciated in Accounting convention. If anything the Fixtures Fittings at Hillsborough and the stands would hand already been depreciated as there have been no major developments of the stadium for 25 years. It's well documented that older stadiums have maintenance costs which would exceed the costs of maintaining your new theoretical £120m Stadium, which would also have to be taken into account. I think it's difficult to argue Hillsborough has the half the value of a new £120m stadium, especially compared to the West Ham and Reading stadium sale values. The point is all these valuations live in a fantasy world of accounts. Question for folk How much do you think it would cost today to build a new stadium to the specification of Hillsborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torres Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Ferkorf said: Chansiri has offered fans the chance to vent their frustrations in a face to face manner. If you are that worried why dont you nip and see him, Im sure it wont be long till he calls another fans forum thing you can go to if you are that frustrated about how things are run. Yep pal, they make they world of difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Concerns me more than Brexit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, asteener1867 said: Concerns me more than Brexit It’s ok it’s all “black humour” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ferkorf said: Chansiri has offered fans the chance to vent their frustrations in a face to face manner. If you are that worried why dont you nip and see him, Im sure it wont be long till he calls another fans forum thing you can go to if you are that frustrated about how things are run. A year and a half since the last one isn't it ? Do you really think he could handle the fans frustration at his mess currently ? I'd be amazed if he fancies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said: A year and a half since the last one isn't it ? Do you really think he could handle the fans frustration at his mess currently ? I'd be amazed if he fancies it. I’d urge him not to even consider it, nothing to be gained by holding them things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, mkowl said: The point is all these valuations live in a fantasy world of accounts. Question for folk How much do you think it would cost today to build a new stadium to the specification of Hillsborough DRC method is quite clear though - the asset isn't being valued to the same specification as the existing asset, it has to reflect a 'modern equivalent'. Are you meaning the depreciated adjustments reflect the current condition of Hillsborough in the final valuation? 2.3 The DRC method is a form of cost approach that is defined in the RICS Valuation – Global Standards 2017 (RB Global) Glossary as: ‘The current cost of replacing an asset with its modern equivalent asset less deductions for physical deterioration and all relevant forms of obsolescence and optimisation.’ 2.4 The DRC method is based on the economic theory of substitution. Like the other forms of valuation listed in paragraph 2.1, it involves comparing the asset being valued with another. However, DRC is normally used in situations where there is no directly comparable alternative. The comparison therefore has to be made with a hypothetical substitute, also described as the modern equivalent asset (MEA). The underlying theory is that the potential buyer in the exchange would not pay any more to acquire the asset being valued than the cost of acquiring an equivalent new one. The technique involves assessing all the costs of providing a modern equivalent asset using pricing at the valuation date. 2.5 In order to assess the price that the potential buyer would bid for the actual asset, valuation depreciation adjustments have to be made to the gross replacement cost of the MEA to reflect the differences between it and the modern equivalent. These differences can reflect obsolescence factors such as the physical condition, the remaining economic life, the comparative running costs and the comparative efficiency and functionality of the actual asset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, mkowl said: The point is all these valuations live in a fantasy world of accounts. Question for folk How much do you think it would cost today to build a new stadium to the specification of Hillsborough I admire your perseverance with this argument, but it's flawed. There's Creative Accountancy and then there's voodoo accounting. I fear Mr C is listening too a voodoo Accountant like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Owl 2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: A year and a half since the last one isn't it ? Do you really think he could handle the fans frustration at his mess currently ? I'd be amazed if he fancies it. I'd be more amazed if you had the balls to go to one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Royal_D said: I’d urge him not to even consider it, nothing to be gained by holding them things Past two have been awful. Just turns into a slanging match. The chairman comes in on the defensive and nothing ever productive comes out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Ozymandias Owl said: I admire your perseverance with this argument, but it's flawed. There's Creative Accountancy and then there's voodoo accounting. I fear Mr C is listening too a voodoo Accountant like yourself. 60 million for our ground does seem a bit mental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said: Past two have been awful. Just turns into a slanging match. The chairman comes in on the defensive and nothing ever productive comes out of it. It would be a car crash. Things have progressively got worse. Nothing to be gained from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 If there was a meeting, how could you be sure of getting the answers...Its a one question wotsit, no follow up, its totally on chansiris terms and usually gets nowhere, who wants him to throw his toys outta the pram? Just lead to more trouble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Animis said: DRC method is quite clear though - the asset isn't being valued to the same specification as the existing asset, it has to reflect a 'modern equivalent'. Are you meaning the depreciated adjustments reflect the current condition of Hillsborough in the final valuation? 2.3 The DRC method is a form of cost approach that is defined in the RICS Valuation – Global Standards 2017 (RB Global) Glossary as: ‘The current cost of replacing an asset with its modern equivalent asset less deductions for physical deterioration and all relevant forms of obsolescence and optimisation.’ 2.4 The DRC method is based on the economic theory of substitution. Like the other forms of valuation listed in paragraph 2.1, it involves comparing the asset being valued with another. However, DRC is normally used in situations where there is no directly comparable alternative. The comparison therefore has to be made with a hypothetical substitute, also described as the modern equivalent asset (MEA). The underlying theory is that the potential buyer in the exchange would not pay any more to acquire the asset being valued than the cost of acquiring an equivalent new one. The technique involves assessing all the costs of providing a modern equivalent asset using pricing at the valuation date. 2.5 In order to assess the price that the potential buyer would bid for the actual asset, valuation depreciation adjustments have to be made to the gross replacement cost of the MEA to reflect the differences between it and the modern equivalent. These differences can reflect obsolescence factors such as the physical condition, the remaining economic life, the comparative running costs and the comparative efficiency and functionality of the actual asset. Which brings us back to the SAG fiasco... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said: It would be a car crash. Things have progressively got worse. Nothing to be gained from it. They were a nice idea, badly executed. It’s pretty obvious that they will only be done now to “meet the rules.” I’d also argue that if we’d pulled off the same stunt as a few others to skirt the ridiculous rules like we thought we had then things are/were definitely getting better. @SiJ nailed it in his earlier post and it sums us up but is seemingly part of the club’s DNA. For much of the time we are prettywank when it really matters. A lot lesswank than some but a lot morewank than many others. People talk about Brexit Fatigue after 3 1/2 years, Wednesday Fatigue lasts pretty much a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said: I admire your perseverance with this argument, but it's flawed. There's Creative Accountancy and then there's voodoo accounting. I fear Mr C is listening too a voodoo Accountant like yourself. But DC was buying a business off MM, not the ground in isolation. The valuation of the ground, and what the two parties agreed as the price of the business are two separate things, albeit clearly linked. In practice, there's no market for a ground. In future this may change as stadiums, as assets become investment vehicles and opportunities for investors to essential buy and lease to the incumbent football club. Leeds had a lease @ £1.7m/annum and Derby have a lease so there's comparable evidence now starting to emerge. Clearly, in all this, football clubs don't currently have a choice to move premises, so end up signing long-leases, which in itself gives the investment market more certainty and subsequently hardens yields as interest in this sector grows. The captilised investment value you could derive from owning a football stadium is what the market would support - so say a £2m annum lease @ 6% yield would produce a YP (multiplier) of 16.7 = £2m x 16.7 = £33m 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On a positive note... Once Mr C has won the battle to secure the WAWAW brand he could buy the brand as an intangible asset from the Club. Others brands he could buy are: - The Owls - UTO - The Wednesday - Sheffield Wednesday - SWFC - The retro badge - The new badge The list is endless. All valued at future revenue streams. Int football brilliant? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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