Animis Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Animis said: But DC was buying a business off MM, not the ground in isolation. The valuation of the ground, and what the two parties agreed as the price of the business are two separate things, albeit clearly linked. In practice, there's no market for a ground. In future this may change as stadiums, as assets become investment vehicles and opportunities for investors to essential buy and lease to the incumbent football club. Leeds had a lease @ £1.7m/annum and Derby have a lease so there's comparable evidence now starting to emerge. Clearly, in all this, football clubs don't currently have a choice to move premises, so end up signing long-leases, which in itself gives the investment market more certainty and subsequently hardens yields as interest in this sector grows. The captilised investment value you could derive from owning a football stadium is what the market would support - so say a £2m annum lease @ 6% yield would produce a YP (multiplier) of 16.7 = £2m x 16.7 = £33m In addition to this, we should remember that if MK is correct and the recent championship ground valuations are based on DRC method, it's purely for accountancy basis, not a real arms-length transaction. If clubs end up 'selling' and leasing back their grounds, they may end up having an entirely different valuation methodology applied - market value, which potentially halfs the apparent value of the asset from DRC in their accounts. RICS say the valuations assume a willing seller and willing buyer, but as we know this isn't always the case, and clubs (through P&S breaches/desperation) could essentially end up having to sell cheap and load the costs onto their annual accounts simply to stay afloat as a short term fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Animis said: But DC was buying a business off MM, not the ground in isolation. The valuation of the ground, and what the two parties agreed as the price of the business are two separate things, albeit clearly linked. In practice, there's no market for a ground. In future this may change as stadiums, as assets become investment vehicles and opportunities for investors to essential buy and lease to the incumbent football club. Leeds had a lease @ £1.7m/annum and Derby have a lease so there's comparable evidence now starting to emerge. Clearly, in all this, football clubs don't currently have a choice to move premises, so end up signing long-leases, which in itself gives the investment market more certainty and subsequently hardens yields as interest in this sector grows. The captilised investment value you could derive from owning a football stadium is what the market would support - so say a £2m annum lease @ 6% yield would produce a YP (multiplier) of 16.7 = £2m x 16.7 = £33m So that would value Mr Cs future lease receipts on Hillsborough at £33m? Which is a fairer value than the £60m plucked out of thin air to fix the accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Down South Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 So let’s assume best case outcome here and no points deduction (optimistic?) resulting in mid table finish (realistic?). Will extent of losses in 2018/19 mean that we are effectively hit by points deduction in each of next 3 seasons (unless we manage to sell other assets)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, A12owl said: He's got no money. He's just bought a football ground. Twice... and over the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 How much rent do United pay McCabe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, A12owl said: It's all getting a bit complicated now with all the speculation and what if's and maybe's. I'm just hoping to create Page 100 with this post. ohh so close 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Steve Down South said: So let’s assume best case outcome here and no points deduction (optimistic?) resulting in mid table finish (realistic?). Will extent of losses in 2018/19 mean that we are effectively hit by points deduction in each of next 3 seasons (unless we manage to sell other assets)? Not really seeing a way out of this unless I'm missing something. Looks like at best transfer embargos, and at worst points docked for some time. All underpinned by the need to sort the squad out. Really wish DC would bring somebody in to help him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said: So that would value Mr Cs future lease receipts on Hillsborough at £33m? Which is a fairer value than the £60m plucked out of thin air to fix the accounts. Yes - that's as I would read it. However, what DC, Reading and Derby have done is followed the prescribed and accepted valuation methodology, in the absence of a true market for transactions. So, say DC did sell SWFC including the ground, he couldn't achieve £60m for the ground alone. Maybe he thought he could when he said he's looking for £170m + for the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 This might do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Typical. Fuckoff Wednesday! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: How much rent do United pay McCabe? That's a good point, as McCabe, as a property developer/investor, would know the market and process inside out. He very visibly separated the loss-making football club from the ground/assets, and loaded more debt onto the football club by charging a lease on the ground he retained ownership of. Not sure if this has now backfired or what the ownership structure is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAL Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 16 hours ago, StudentOwl said: If Chansiri funds the club 100%, why do we charge high ticket prices? No one is arguing that Chansiri doesn't fund an excruciatingly large % of the club, but to say he funds the club 100% is such an obvious mistruth I don't know how you can type it. 16 hours ago, sage owl said: What am I paying for ?. Do I not contribute to the bills, if not can I have a cheaper season ticket next year please. 16 hours ago, rickygoo said: He should let us in for nowt then if our cash is irrelevant. Be mean not to. He did try to explain that, to people that would listen anyway. Never did he mean the fans money was irrelevant. The more he brought in from other areas i.e. season tickets, the more HE could put in himself. The more season tickets sold, meant more up front money, which meant HE could put more money in. High match day prices, to try and make fans buy season tickets, which by the way saves them money, to enable him to put more money in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 You would think theres a way around it, If a club has a chairman like ours, who is obviously willing to plough the money in, you can't fault him for that. How come the EFL don't simply seek assurances in some sort of contractual form, that if for instance he overreahes, the actual club isn't liable...The Chairman is. In some ways, if Chansiri is willing and has the money FFp is a sort of restriction of trade is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, MAL said: He did try to explain that, to people that would listen anyway. Never did he mean the fans money was irrelevant. The more he brought in from other areas i.e. season tickets, the more HE could put in himself. The more season tickets sold, meant more up front money, which meant HE could put more money in. High match day prices, to try and make fans buy season tickets, which by the way saves them money, to enable him to put more money in. Everybody understands season tickets are cheaper Mal...sadly some can't fork £500 out and can't go further into debt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, A12owl said: Yeah. I've done it Whooppeee. Gooaaaal. Get in. Now what were the other 99 pages about? testicles mate, everyone is just making it up as they go along 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, A12owl said: I win. It's closing in on 2000 replies. Nearly there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said: I'd be more amazed if you had the balls to go to one And take his hero Geoff with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, asteener1867 said: You would think theres a way around it, If a club has a chairman like ours, who is obviously willing to plough the money in, you can't fault him for that. How come the EFL don't simply seek assurances in some sort of contractual form, that if for instance he overreahes, the actual club isn't liable...The Chairman is. In some ways, if Chansiri is willing and has the money FFp is a sort of restriction of trade is it not? Has to be a better way than the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said: Has to be a better way than the current system. Proof of funds.... prepared to take losses incurred Whats the problem Thats more or less the "Fit and proper" persons thing Heres us, ground sold, and maybe floundering... I suppose when asked how come Hillsborough was suddenly worth 60 mill Chansiri could say "Rhodes and Abdi were inside at the time......" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulgaria Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, bladeshater said: Why do people enjoy scaremongering just sit back and wait at present we are not guilty of anything Will you stop giving your opinion.... Anyone would think that this is a fans forum!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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